03-08-2015 01:58 PM
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  1. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    Those ads are inefficient because there is scarce information and limited mechanisms to select the group that will be exposed to the ad. So, people see a lot of ads that are irrelevant to them. That's bad for everybody, the public, the content provider and the advertiser.
    Those ads are very effective and give people what they need to know. They always have. Ads as I described are regional in nature and tell me and millions others what is available in their area. These types of ads aren't for people who don't know what they want, but for people who do. If people need a review of a product there are specific places to find this information, it certainly doesn't need to be in a ad



    Google provide mechanism to select from the public those people that are most likely interested in the advertised product. Google can do this because It knows a lot about you and It knows what your doing. Using this information Google shows you ads that are relevant to you and help you to solve your needs. That's a huge improvement over untargeted ads on TV and newspapers.
    As Google knows more about the world and about your interests, activities, emails, etc. It gets better in predicting what you want. At some point the ad is not an annoying waste of time, It is helpful, showing you just what you needed, It becomes a suggestion of an intelligent agent that is constantly helping you to find the products and services that you need to fulfill your aims.
    So, ads aren't different to any other kind of information that an intelligent agent like Cortana, or your human assistant, or your family and friends, could help you to deal with.
    BS... Google provides a service for those who are willing to use it instead of others and make money off of it. I don't need suggestions as to what to eat, what movie to watch, or where to go. I make up my own mind.... Oh and those suggestions that Google provides is for those individuals who are "too busy" to do those mundane task like thinking for themselves.




    I think you are overestimating your abilities. In general people is very permeable to ads and opinions. Time is also limited, you can't spend much researching every product. You need ads, they open new opportunities for you.
    No I am not overestimating my abilities in the least. I have always been this way.



    When ads appear on a website or a mobile app, that's not google interrupting. The developer of the website chose to show ads selecting a portion of the page that make sense to her, Google just provides the ads in that space.
    BS... Ads are there to make additional revenue for the site and for Google and ad clicks matter

    As I said I don't need to be redirected to something or someplace else from a ad nor do I need to be inundated with them. I have no need to see them nor utilize them. I seak out what is on sale from local sources that use specific ads relating to that business or that particular businesses website.

    I also don't want to have ads pushed to me based on previous searches. That is what Google does and it is the same BS as any other junk mass mailings or telemarketers.

    You may find what they do as useful but I find it irritating and wasteful. I also know that most people will opt out if given the chance to without jumping through hoops to do so.

    Most all applications I own give that option and I gladly pay the small fee for this.

    Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
    03-04-2015 10:58 PM
  2. Spectrum90's Avatar
    When, in their entire history, has Microsoft been an ad agency? I get that you like Google, that's fine. But please don't come evangelizing on a Windows forum about the wonder that is Google. We know very well what Google is and what it stands for. If we wanted Google in our lives, in our business and in our wallets we would flock to them. No thanks.

    Microsoft is an advertising agency. Many of the ads that we see in Windows apps comes from Microsoft's agency.
    Ads in Apps ? Microsoft Advertising

    Microsoft tried to develop an advertising network for the web like AdSense/AdWords, but It didn't work. However, Microsoft is still an ad agency for their own properties like Bing and MSN, and for Yahoo Search.
    Atlas Solutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://advertising.microsoft.com/en/home

    Google has 90% of market share in search worldwide and Microsoft has 90% of market share in PCs. Like most people I use products of both companies, and they're great. The idea that you have to hate google because you use Windows is so wrong. If you have that idea, please don't try to extend it to other people in this forum talking of "WE".
    Last edited by Spectrum90; 03-05-2015 at 07:56 AM.
    Timbre70 and Visa Declined like this.
    03-05-2015 05:06 AM
  3. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    Microsoft is an advertising agency. Many of the ads that we see in Windows apps comes from Microsoft's agency.
    Ads in Apps ? Microsoft Advertising

    Microsoft tried develop an advertising network for the web like AdSense/AdWords, but It didn't work. However, Microsoft is still an ad agency for their own properties like Bing and MSN, and for Yahoo Search.
    Atlas Solutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://advertising.microsoft.com/en/home

    Google has 90% of market share in search worldwide and Microsoft has 90% of market share in PCs. Like most people I use products of both companies, and they're great. The idea that you have to hate google because you use Windows is so wrong. I you have that idea, please don't try to extend it to other people in this forum talking of "WE".
    I honestly don't think people hate Google as a requirement to use Windows, but from a deep dissatisfaction from some of the things they do or don't do for the Windows platform and their intrusive behavior . I asked this question before and that was the overwhelming majority of answers I got from it.

    I don't hate them, not as long as I can disable most of their software. I use a Android phone for the time being, but would give it up if I could have a Windows phone that allowed me to have it as this one is and offer a better device.

    FWIW I personally know many people who are feeling just as I am and are in the same boat. They are tired of the intrusive behavior Google has started to exhibit. These are long time Android users that are not prone to changing platforms for no reason too.

    Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
    neo158 and a5cent like this.
    03-05-2015 05:47 AM
  4. neo158's Avatar
    We aren't?

    I don't think you even know what Google does. As an illustration, let's say I have a product I wish to advertise to a very specific demographic. I tell Google, "I want this ad to be displayed to married women from 30 - 35 years old who have 3 boys, drives a Honda minivan, attends a Lutheran church, uses an HP computer at home, likes to cook Chinese food, works part time as a secretary for a construction contractor, lives in the suburbs of a city of at least 1 million population, has a college degree, mortgage on the family home is not yet paid off, husband is an electrician...

    Google knows who those people are and can send them the ads. This service is valuable to advertisers because they're not paying to send the ad to me, for whom the product has no relevance. Google is not selling user data at all! In fact, if they sold the data, they would soon be out of business because the advertiser would have no use for them anymore. It would have its list of potential customers. It is ultra important to Google to keep your data private. It's more accurate to say that Google directs ads to relevant customers than that they sell data.

    Apple & Microsoft also collect data. They probably have access to the same type of data on their customers that Google has. They just use it differently. The use of Cortana requires data collection. It won't even work without location being turned on! I don't use Apple services all that much, but I do know that more and more ads are coming through Microsoft's services. You don't think they "read" your emails?

    Apple & Microsoft know how to do one thing with our data though; they know how to hand it over to the authorities when $$$$ is tantalizingly dangled in front of them!
    Well done, you're able to quote part of my post completely out of context. How about quoting and responding to the WHOLE post next time!!!!
    03-05-2015 11:16 AM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Microsoft is an advertising agency.
    Really? They must really suck at it or they would have named the company Microad. All this time I thought they were a software company.
    03-05-2015 12:00 PM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    Well done, you're able to quote part of my post completely out of context. How about quoting and responding to the WHOLE post next time!!!!
    They may have corrected that but it doesn't excuse them from doing it in the first place and how would it have been better for all if G+ succeeded. I get the distinct impression that you're a big Google fan, personally I'm not as they happen to be one of, if not the most invasive company on the face of the planet. We aren't users of Google's services, we are their "product" and we become that through them using our data. The fact that they scan ALL email that their "products" send and receive to provide ads to your inbox is a perfect example!!!!
    At your service. Yeah you're correct; I did quote part of your quote, but it wasn't completely out of context like you say. You come across as saying that Google offers nothing worthwhile; they're out to get your data. They are, but they do offer compelling services and a first class smartphone OS. We actually are users of Google's services. Yes we are also their product. But, my point stands that they don't sell your data. They don't. Period. Except of course to the authorities, but Microsoft does too. Apple and Microsoft also have profiles on you and use it; don't kid yourself.

    It's unfortunate that in order to be a beloved and accepted member of WindowsCentral you also have to hate Google and Apple. It's also necessary to be very vocal about it, with questionable validity. I wish it weren't that way. This site talks as much about Google as it does Microsoft! Instead of WindowsCentral , it could just was well be named IHateGoogleAndAppleCentral. Let's act like adults! I don't see this extent of trash talking on iMore and AndroidCentral. Oh, there might be a little dig at each other every once in awhile, but they chuckle and move on. WP and BB are almost never mentioned at all.
    03-05-2015 12:09 PM
  7. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Really? They must really suck at it or they would have named the company Microad. All this time I thought they were a software company.
    They're obviously not just a software company.
    03-05-2015 01:27 PM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    They're obviously not just a software company.
    Yes, they've made some acquisitions over the years and have expanded their portfolio. But that doesn't make them an advertising company anymore than GM was a computer company when they acquired Perot's EDS in the 80s or RJ Reynolds being a cookie company after purchasing Nabisco.
    03-05-2015 01:44 PM
  9. oldpueblo's Avatar
    This is really simple and any attempt to complicate this is disingenuous. MS is a software/services company who ALSO has one product that revolves around search (Bing). Yes Bing does a form of data collection, but it's for accuracy more than anything and to absolutely help you. Google is a search company, period. Every product of theirs points back to search and data-mining their users and making it appealing to their users to voluntarily do it. That is their product #1 and the only way they make money. Their mobile OS is free, they make jack **** on hardware. The two companies are completely different. MS provides products to empower you, Google uses you as a product. Google has no other big cash-cow product that keeps their company afloat except advertising based on data-mining their users. MS can take it or leave it, they have plenty of other products.

    Every company has an advertising department, just because someone advertises and gathers information about their users it does not put them on equally invasive privacy-snooping footing with Google. Not by a longshot. Are they "bad" because of it? No not just because of that, they are bad because of the way they go about it. Their practices, not their conceptual business structure.
    03-05-2015 03:01 PM
  10. Spectrum90's Avatar
    This is really simple and any attempt to complicate this is disingenuous. MS is a software/services company who ALSO has one product that revolves around search (Bing). Yes Bing does a form of data collection, but it's for accuracy more than anything and to absolutely help you. Google is a search company, period. Every product of theirs points back to search and data-mining their users and making it appealing to their users to voluntarily do it. That is their product #1 and the only way they make money. Their mobile OS is free, they make jack **** on hardware. The two companies are completely different. MS provides products to empower you, Google uses you as a product. Google has no other big cash-cow product that keeps their company afloat except advertising based on data-mining their users. MS can take it or leave it, they have plenty of other products.

    Every company has an advertising department, just because someone advertises and gathers information about their users it does not put them on equally invasive privacy-snooping footing with Google. Not by a longshot. Are they "bad" because of it? No not just because of that, they are bad because of the way they go about it. Their practices, not their conceptual business structure.
    Not really. Google is in many industries:

    Cloud computing competing with Azure and AWS.
    Productivity apps competing with Office 365.
    Self-driving cars.
    Broadband services with Google Fiber and about to enter in mobile broadband.
    Connectivity infrastructure with Loon, drones and satellites.
    Robotics.
    And of course they develop the most used operating system in the world, and the most used services in the world.

    Microsoft use the same data collection techniques for its ad service. Bing's revenue is close to $1 billion. If you really want to defend your privacy you should be using DuckDuckGo, not Bing.

    Both companies are great, provide amazing services and products, and they compete in many product categories.
    03-05-2015 05:28 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    ^^Android is the most popular MOBILE operating system. Microsoft Windows is what makes all those things you just mentioned work. Android isn't capable of handling the desktop applications necessary to make those things possible.
    Sent from my big *** Lumia 1520
    Spectrum90 and oldpueblo like this.
    03-05-2015 05:54 PM
  12. oldpueblo's Avatar
    ...And of course they develop the most used operating system in the world, and the most used services in the world.
    How much do they charge people for those? Nothing?!?! Their office competitor is also free?!?! Oh right, because people are paying in a different way (privacy). You know I'm right, you can't dance around it. Yes they have SOME paid products, but they are fringe compared to the very purpose of their business. Their main revenue stream.... is our privacy/data-mining. Which is the exact opposite of MS. Which is why they are two completely different businesses, from top to bottom. And their job is to fool you into wanting to give that privacy up for free, just like millions do for Facebook. To make us think that privacy is no big deal. To put it another way in even simpler terms.

    (behold the greatest photoshop ever)

    family.jpg
    one.jpg

    Let me ask you this, do you think that paid services like Google Fiber won't be sniffing all your Internet traffic? "But all ISPs do that" you might say, but for what reason? Infrastructure, security, yeah there are reasons to do this. But you have to have a Google account to use Google Fiber. I'm just tossing a guess out here since I've not read their privacy statement with it, but I'm guessing Google Fiber will be data-mining all your Internet traffic as well. See a common theme here?
    a5cent and neo158 like this.
    03-05-2015 07:24 PM
  13. Spectrum90's Avatar
    How much do they charge people for those? Nothing?!?! Their office competitor is also free?!?!
    Google docs for consumers is free as Office online for consumers is also free.
    Google apps for business is paid as Office 365 is also paid.
    https://www.google.com/work/apps/business/pricing.html

    How much does Microsoft charge for Windows Phone and full Windows in small tablets? Nothing?

    Microsoft and Google are similar.

    (Those photoshops could be better.)
    03-05-2015 08:19 PM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Microsoft and Google are similar.
    Please, that doesn't even pass the laugh test. Do yourself a favor and speak with your brain and not your heart.
    neo158 likes this.
    03-05-2015 08:35 PM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    How are Microsoft's once-paid now-free services funded? Office online, virtually unlimited OneDrive, Windows for devices <9" for example? Isn't there even an HP Stream 7 w/ads? Windows is also much lower cost than it used to be, and upgrades are now mostly free. How are they covering the costs?
    03-05-2015 08:56 PM
  16. oldpueblo's Avatar
    Google docs for consumers is free as Office online for consumers is also free.
    Google apps for business is paid as Office 365 is also paid.
    https://www.google.com/work/apps/business/pricing.html

    How much does Microsoft charge for Windows Phone and full Windows in small tablets? Nothing?

    Microsoft and Google are similar.

    (Those photoshops could be better.)
    Still not the same, at all. Here's context. Microsoft's products were once not free and have only been made semi-free due to industry trends. They are fighting to stay relevant and useful, AND be the go-to company for cross platform support. Google however went the opposite direction, luring people in with promises of cool free stuff and THEN creating paid for products after they were able to hook enough people, and make enough money off of people's data, wait I mean cool free stuff! They started as just search, nothing else. Search getting slowly more invasive the larger they grew. Don't be evil turned into be evil all the time basically. The two companies could not be any more different, it's like saying a guy that killed someone to steal his things and a person that shot someone in self defense are both murderers. Context and intent matter. The end result is similar, but the reasons/scenario are not at all. Here's a great read relevant to this topic.

    Microsoft Is The New Google, Google Is The Old Microsoft - Forbes

    How are Microsoft's once-paid now-free services funded? Office online, virtually unlimited OneDrive, Windows for devices <9" for example? Isn't there even an HP Stream 7 w/ads? Windows is also much lower cost than it used to be, and upgrades are now mostly free. How are they covering the costs?
    Two thoughts on this. They are eating the costs making a bet on the long term return. Think Walmart's strategy, high volume with low prices makes more money in the long run than the opposite. It's also why PCs outsell Macs by a huge margin. In this case it's subscription fees hopefully make up for larger one time purchases only once every several years (Windows/Office). And/or also realizing their once paid for products are selling less since there are free competitive alternatives. So they wouldn't have been making that money anyway, might as well make them free'ish in the hopes of keeping people in the ecosystem. The war of hardware is over really, it's all about the ecosystem these days and MS is moving that direction being the ONLY cross-platform company.

    Just to add some more context, believe it or not I'm not some rabid anti-Google guy. I used Android for years and loved it. But over the years I've seen Google slowly devolve into a company with really poor business ethics (hence this thread!) and it's only cemented my decision to no longer use them for anything. YouTube (who they bought, not created) is of course an exception, though they did make it annoying to use once they integrated it with G+. It's a great example really, they took something wonderful and twisted/leveraged/hooked it into their data-mining machine.

    The crme de la crme? This video:



    Be together not the same. Hey Google, be together WITH US and release your services on Windows devices. So that we can be...the same, you know? Because right now MS is doing a far better job at that than you are.
    Last edited by oldpueblo; 03-05-2015 at 10:17 PM.
    RumoredNow, a5cent, neo158 and 1 others like this.
    03-05-2015 10:06 PM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    Two thoughts on this. They are eating the costs making a bet on the long term return. Think Walmart's strategy, high volume with low prices makes more money in the long run than the opposite. It's also why PCs outsell Macs by a huge margin. In this case it's subscription fees hopefully make up for larger one time purchases only once every several years (Windows/Office). And/or also realizing their once paid for products are selling less since there are free competitive alternatives. So they wouldn't have been making that money anyway, might as well make them free'ish in the hopes of keeping people in the ecosystem. The war of hardware is over really, it's all about the ecosystem these days and MS is moving that direction being the ONLY cross-platform company.
    Good points. Thinking of myself as an example, I moved to paying for Office 365 for the sole purpose of being able to install Office Pro on several devices without spending a fortune. I don't even use the other services included in my Office 365 subscription. In fact, I could use Office online, or Google Docs on my Android devices. They would be more than sufficient for my needs. But I've been using Office since like forever, and I hate to leave it.

    In this case, Microsoft played their cards well to get someone like me. I pay for a $99.99/year service, but otherwise I probably wouldn't spend a single penny on Office. I'd use the free Office online and/or Google Docs.
    03-05-2015 10:17 PM
  18. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Yes, they've made some acquisitions over the years and have expanded their portfolio. But that doesn't make them an advertising company anymore than GM was a computer company when they acquired Perot's EDS in the 80s or RJ Reynolds being a cookie company after purchasing Nabisco.
    Advertising is, most certainly, a part of their business. It's like when people say that Microsoft is a peripheral maker. Yeah, their keyboard and mice aren't setting the world on fire, but it isn't wrong to say that they're a peripheral maker. They're also a phone maker and a PC maker. So saying they're an ad agency is just a way of saying that they've expanded out into advertising. They're primarily a software company, but they're trying to expand into many other areas.

    This is unlike the GM acquisition, because I believe that they did that to enhance their core business. Microsoft wants to turn advertising into another pillar of money.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-06-2015 04:53 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    Advertising is, most certainly, a part of their business.
    I think that's undisputed. I'm just not sure how important that fact is.

    I think it's far more important to consider how strategically relevant a particular revenue stream is (is it considered their core competency), how closely aligned/related that revenue stream is to a corporations core business, and how much it contributes to their overall earnings.

    For example, I consider the idea that Google is a car company utter BS. Yes, they have a research project focused on self driving cars, but have so far not earned one cent from it. Until they do, they are no more a car company than I am an Italia restaurant (I sometimes make my own Pizzas).

    In 2014, Google's advertising revenue reached 59 billion, which amounts to 90% of their total revenue.
    In 2014, Microsoft's advertising revenue reached 3 billion, which amounts to roughly 3.5% of their total revenue.

    Once we factor in that MS also had to invest far more money to make those 3 billion, meaning there profitability per ad is far below Google's, the difference is even more pronounced.
    IMHO that makes it quite clear that Google is an advertising company, whereas MS is an Enterprise software and services company, where both also happen to dabble in each others fields.
    In summary, both companies have the capability to show advertising, but only one is an advertising company.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-06-2015 06:53 AM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I agree with the anti-Google sentiments. Enough is enough. Last month I made a backup of all my Google Data and then systematically went through and deleted all my data from each of the services I used, with the exception of YouTube. I deleted my Google+ profile and recreated an empty one so I could keep my YT channel active (I really hate that they make you do that).

    Now I don't even log into Google unless absolutely necessary.

    Browser: Firefox with the Adblock and Privacy Badger extensions is a beautiful thing.

    Search engine: DuckDuckGo and Bing

    Email, Calendar, Contacts, web productivity: I have long preferred Microsoft's online suite over Google's.

    Video: There is no substitute for YouTube, but I try to use other services like Vimeo when possible.

    Digital media purchases and management: I am a big fan of Amazon's products and services and prefer them over Google Play. If Windows Phone could get official Amazon Instant Video and Amazon Music apps, that would be brilliant.

    Maps/navigation: Microsoft/Nokia apps and services are more than adequate, here.

    Mobile devices: BlackBerry and Windows!!

    Tablet: I haven't really needed a tablet in years, but I still have my deprecated BlackBerry PlayBook. If I'm in the market for a new tab it will be a Surface or other Windows tab (unless BB comes out with a new one).

    Desktop/laptop: Windows and Linux

    I think I covered all the basics, but you can see there are definitely good alternatives out there.

    Goodbye Google, and good riddance.
    Sent from my Lumia 822
    neo158, luisfarelo and RumoredNow like this.
    03-06-2015 08:41 AM
  21. neo158's Avatar
    These two websites tell you exactly what data Microsoft collects and how they use it (Bottom of the bing.com webpage FYI):

    Microsoft Privacy Statement
    Your privacy and Microsoft personalised ads

    I have never seen anything like these for any Google service I've used. The difference is that Microsoft are up front about it, Google aren't.
    03-06-2015 08:43 AM
  22. kg4icg's Avatar
    I got out of Google more than a year ago, switched my email address over to Outlook.com, even did that to YouTube. As for Google services, don't need it.
    luisfarelo likes this.
    03-06-2015 08:59 AM
  23. luisfarelo's Avatar
    I have ditched Google long ago and haven't regretted it, I hated gmail and I only keep my Google account to log into YouTube
    03-06-2015 09:12 AM
  24. Spectrum90's Avatar
    In summary, both companies have the capability to show advertising, but only one is an advertising company.
    Both are advertising companies, but one of them is having success, the other one is struggling. The only difference is the quality of the work done, not the type of work. However, this market situation can change in the future. Microsoft would love to expand its advertising business to the size of operation of Google, they're trying, they're investing, time will tell if they succeed.

    The current revenue is not what defines a company, the value of a company depends in its future revenue stream. The investments are better indication of their nature. Google is investing heavily in other industries.

    And again, there is nothing wrong with ads or data collection. Microsoft and Google aren't doing anything wrong.
    03-06-2015 10:01 AM
  25. oldpueblo's Avatar
    Both are advertising companies, but one of them is having success, the other one is struggling. The only difference is the quality of the work done, not the type of work. However, this market situation can change in the future. Microsoft would love to expand its advertising business to the size of operation of Google, they're trying, they're investing, time will tell if they succeed.

    The current revenue is not what defines a company, the value of a company depends in its future revenue stream. The investments are better indication of their nature. Google is investing heavily in other industries.

    And again, there is nothing wrong with ads or data collection. Microsoft and Google aren't doing anything wrong.
    Then I guess I can classify myself as a Feces Production company, because I **** pretty regularly. Your logic amazes me. I mean when people ask what I do for a living, I'll tell them I produce ****. Sure it's not my main revenue stream, in fact I make no money at it at all. But I do it therefore it must be what defines me!
    a5cent likes this.
    03-06-2015 10:09 AM
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