Bye Bye, Google

[Spectrum90]

Apparently you don't read tech sites, read a newspaper or magazines or even watch TV...
As a consumer I am bombarded with information on what is available to purchase without ever having to use any adds on my phone.

Those ads are inefficient because there is scarce information and limited mechanisms to select the group that will be exposed to the ad. So, people see a lot of ads that are irrelevant to them. That's bad for everybody, the public, the content provider and the advertiser.

Google has not made things really better for the consumer but has made it better for themselves with the pretext of making things better for you.

Google provide mechanism to select from the public those people that are most likely interested in the advertised product. Google can do this because It knows a lot about you and It knows what your doing. Using this information Google shows you ads that are relevant to you and help you to solve your needs. That's a huge improvement over untargeted ads on TV and newspapers.
As Google knows more about the world and about your interests, activities, emails, etc. It gets better in predicting what you want. At some point the ad is not an annoying waste of time, It is helpful, showing you just what you needed, It becomes a suggestion of an intelligent agent that is constantly helping you to find the products and services that you need to fulfill your aims.
So, ads aren't different to any other kind of information that an intelligent agent like Cortana, or your human assistant, or your family and friends, could help you to deal with.

The thing is you are allowing yourself to be led by your nose to things that they want you to see and make money by doing so.

There is a significant difference in how you do things and how I do things. If I go somewhere I know where I am going prior to leaving, if I need to purchase something I know what I need to purchase. If I am hungry I decide what it is I am hungry for before I go get it.

I think you are overestimating your abilities. In general people is very permeable to ads and opinions. Time is also limited, you can't spend much researching every product. You need ads, they open new opportunities for you.

When ads appear on a website or a mobile app, that's not google interrupting. The developer of the website chose to show ads selecting a portion of the page that make sense to her, Google just provides the ads in that space.

 

[tgp]

We aren't users of Google's services

We aren't? :angel:

I don't think you even know what Google does. As an illustration, let's say I have a product I wish to advertise to a very specific demographic. I tell Google, "I want this ad to be displayed to married women from 30 - 35 years old who have 3 boys, drives a Honda minivan, attends a Lutheran church, uses an HP computer at home, likes to cook Chinese food, works part time as a secretary for a construction contractor, lives in the suburbs of a city of at least 1 million population, has a college degree, mortgage on the family home is not yet paid off, husband is an electrician...

Google knows who those people are and can send them the ads. This service is valuable to advertisers because they're not paying to send the ad to me, for whom the product has no relevance. Google is not selling user data at all! In fact, if they sold the data, they would soon be out of business because the advertiser would have no use for them anymore. It would have its list of potential customers. It is ultra important to Google to keep your data private. It's more accurate to say that Google directs ads to relevant customers than that they sell data.

Apple & Microsoft also collect data. They probably have access to the same type of data on their customers that Google has. They just use it differently. The use of Cortana requires data collection. It won't even work without location being turned on! I don't use Apple services all that much, but I do know that more and more ads are coming through Microsoft's services. You don't think they "read" your emails?

Apple & Microsoft know how to do one thing with our data though; they know how to hand it over to the authorities when $$$$ is tantalizingly dangled in front of them!

 

[squire777]

Yes as if Google won't give up user date if the authorities came knocking. Hell they would probably give it for free. Leave it to one of the site's biggest Google cheerleaders to come up with a hilarious defense of Google and it's shady tactics.

 

[fatclue_98]

The failure to capture a relevant share of the ad business is one of the reasons why Microsoft has so many problems.

When, in their entire history, has Microsoft been an ad agency? I get that you like Google, that's fine. But please don't come evangelizing on a Windows forum about the wonder that is Google. We know very well what Google is and what it stands for. If we wanted Google in our lives, in our business and in our wallets we would flock to them. No thanks.

 

[tgp]

We know very well what Google is and what it stands for.

You do, but most here don't. All you read here is "Google sells your data." Ha, nothing could be further from the truth! Well ya, they do sell it to the NSA, but so does everybody else.

 

[MDMcAtee]

Those ads are inefficient because there is scarce information and limited mechanisms to select the group that will be exposed to the ad. So, people see a lot of ads that are irrelevant to them. That's bad for everybody, the public, the content provider and the advertiser.

Those ads are very effective and give people what they need to know. They always have. Ads as I described are regional in nature and tell me and millions others what is available in their area. These types of ads aren't for people who don't know what they want, but for people who do. If people need a review of a product there are specific places to find this information, it certainly doesn't need to be in a ad

Google provide mechanism to select from the public those people that are most likely interested in the advertised product. Google can do this because It knows a lot about you and It knows what your doing. Using this information Google shows you ads that are relevant to you and help you to solve your needs. That's a huge improvement over untargeted ads on TV and newspapers.
As Google knows more about the world and about your interests, activities, emails, etc. It gets better in predicting what you want. At some point the ad is not an annoying waste of time, It is helpful, showing you just what you needed, It becomes a suggestion of an intelligent agent that is constantly helping you to find the products and services that you need to fulfill your aims.
So, ads aren't different to any other kind of information that an intelligent agent like Cortana, or your human assistant, or your family and friends, could help you to deal with.

BS... Google provides a service for those who are willing to use it instead of others and make money off of it. I don't need suggestions as to what to eat, what movie to watch, or where to go. I make up my own mind.... Oh and those suggestions that Google provides is for those individuals who are "too busy" to do those mundane task like thinking for themselves.

I think you are overestimating your abilities. In general people is very permeable to ads and opinions. Time is also limited, you can't spend much researching every product. You need ads, they open new opportunities for you.

No I am not overestimating my abilities in the least. I have always been this way.

When ads appear on a website or a mobile app, that's not google interrupting. The developer of the website chose to show ads selecting a portion of the page that make sense to her, Google just provides the ads in that space.

BS... Ads are there to make additional revenue for the site and for Google and ad clicks matter

As I said I don't need to be redirected to something or someplace else from a ad nor do I need to be inundated with them. I have no need to see them nor utilize them. I seak out what is on sale from local sources that use specific ads relating to that business or that particular businesses website.

I also don't want to have ads pushed to me based on previous searches. That is what Google does and it is the same BS as any other junk mass mailings or telemarketers.

You may find what they do as useful but I find it irritating and wasteful. I also know that most people will opt out if given the chance to without jumping through hoops to do so.

Most all applications I own give that option and I gladly pay the small fee for this.

Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8

 

[Spectrum90]

When, in their entire history, has Microsoft been an ad agency? I get that you like Google, that's fine. But please don't come evangelizing on a Windows forum about the wonder that is Google. We know very well what Google is and what it stands for. If we wanted Google in our lives, in our business and in our wallets we would flock to them. No thanks.

Microsoft is an advertising agency. Many of the ads that we see in Windows apps comes from Microsoft's agency.
Ads in Apps ? Microsoft Advertising

Microsoft tried to develop an advertising network for the web like AdSense/AdWords, but It didn't work. However, Microsoft is still an ad agency for their own properties like Bing and MSN, and for Yahoo Search.
Atlas Solutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://advertising.microsoft.com/en/home

Google has 90% of market share in search worldwide and Microsoft has 90% of market share in PCs. Like most people I use products of both companies, and they're great. The idea that you have to hate google because you use Windows is so wrong. If you have that idea, please don't try to extend it to other people in this forum talking of "WE".

 

[MDMcAtee]

Microsoft is an advertising agency. Many of the ads that we see in Windows apps comes from Microsoft's agency.
Ads in Apps ? Microsoft Advertising

Microsoft tried develop an advertising network for the web like AdSense/AdWords, but It didn't work. However, Microsoft is still an ad agency for their own properties like Bing and MSN, and for Yahoo Search.
Atlas Solutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://advertising.microsoft.com/en/home

Google has 90% of market share in search worldwide and Microsoft has 90% of market share in PCs. Like most people I use products of both companies, and they're great. The idea that you have to hate google because you use Windows is so wrong. I you have that idea, please don't try to extend it to other people in this forum talking of "WE".

I honestly don't think people hate Google as a requirement to use Windows, but from a deep dissatisfaction from some of the things they do or don't do for the Windows platform and their intrusive behavior . I asked this question before and that was the overwhelming majority of answers I got from it.

I don't hate them, not as long as I can disable most of their software. I use a Android phone for the time being, but would give it up if I could have a Windows phone that allowed me to have it as this one is and offer a better device.

FWIW I personally know many people who are feeling just as I am and are in the same boat. They are tired of the intrusive behavior Google has started to exhibit. These are long time Android users that are not prone to changing platforms for no reason too.

Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8

 

[neo158]

We aren't? :angel:

I don't think you even know what Google does. As an illustration, let's say I have a product I wish to advertise to a very specific demographic. I tell Google, "I want this ad to be displayed to married women from 30 - 35 years old who have 3 boys, drives a Honda minivan, attends a Lutheran church, uses an HP computer at home, likes to cook Chinese food, works part time as a secretary for a construction contractor, lives in the suburbs of a city of at least 1 million population, has a college degree, mortgage on the family home is not yet paid off, husband is an electrician...

Google knows who those people are and can send them the ads. This service is valuable to advertisers because they're not paying to send the ad to me, for whom the product has no relevance. Google is not selling user data at all! In fact, if they sold the data, they would soon be out of business because the advertiser would have no use for them anymore. It would have its list of potential customers. It is ultra important to Google to keep your data private. It's more accurate to say that Google directs ads to relevant customers than that they sell data.

Apple & Microsoft also collect data. They probably have access to the same type of data on their customers that Google has. They just use it differently. The use of Cortana requires data collection. It won't even work without location being turned on! I don't use Apple services all that much, but I do know that more and more ads are coming through Microsoft's services. You don't think they "read" your emails?

Apple & Microsoft know how to do one thing with our data though; they know how to hand it over to the authorities when $$$$ is tantalizingly dangled in front of them!

Well done, you're able to quote part of my post completely out of context. How about quoting and responding to the WHOLE post next time!!!!

 

[fatclue_98]

Microsoft is an advertising agency.

Really? They must really suck at it or they would have named the company Microad. All this time I thought they were a software company.

 

[tgp]

Well done, you're able to quote part of my post completely out of context. How about quoting and responding to the WHOLE post next time!!!!

They may have corrected that but it doesn't excuse them from doing it in the first place and how would it have been better for all if G+ succeeded. I get the distinct impression that you're a big Google fan, personally I'm not as they happen to be one of, if not the most invasive company on the face of the planet. We aren't users of Google's services, we are their "product" and we become that through them using our data. The fact that they scan ALL email that their "products" send and receive to provide ads to your inbox is a perfect example!!!!

At your service. Yeah you're correct; I did quote part of your quote, but it wasn't completely out of context like you say. You come across as saying that Google offers nothing worthwhile; they're out to get your data. They are, but they do offer compelling services and a first class smartphone OS. We actually are users of Google's services. Yes we are also their product. But, my point stands that they don't sell your data. They don't. Period. Except of course to the authorities, but Microsoft does too. Apple and Microsoft also have profiles on you and use it; don't kid yourself.

It's unfortunate that in order to be a beloved and accepted member of WindowsCentral you also have to hate Google and Apple. It's also necessary to be very vocal about it, with questionable validity. I wish it weren't that way. This site talks as much about Google as it does Microsoft! Instead of WindowsCentral , it could just was well be named IHateGoogleAndAppleCentral. Let's act like adults! I don't see this extent of trash talking on iMore and AndroidCentral. Oh, there might be a little dig at each other every once in awhile, but they chuckle and move on. WP and BB are almost never mentioned at all.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Really? They must really suck at it or they would have named the company Microad. All this time I thought they were a software company.

They're obviously not just a software company.

 

[fatclue_98]

They're obviously not just a software company.

Yes, they've made some acquisitions over the years and have expanded their portfolio. But that doesn't make them an advertising company anymore than GM was a computer company when they acquired Perot's EDS in the 80s or RJ Reynolds being a cookie company after purchasing Nabisco.

 

[oldpueblo]

This is really simple and any attempt to complicate this is disingenuous. MS is a software/services company who ALSO has one product that revolves around search (Bing). Yes Bing does a form of data collection, but it's for accuracy more than anything and to absolutely help you. Google is a search company, period. Every product of theirs points back to search and data-mining their users and making it appealing to their users to voluntarily do it. That is their product #1 and the only way they make money. Their mobile OS is free, they make jack **** on hardware. The two companies are completely different. MS provides products to empower you, Google uses you as a product. Google has no other big cash-cow product that keeps their company afloat except advertising based on data-mining their users. MS can take it or leave it, they have plenty of other products.

Every company has an advertising department, just because someone advertises and gathers information about their users it does not put them on equally invasive privacy-snooping footing with Google. Not by a longshot. Are they "bad" because of it? No not just because of that, they are bad because of the way they go about it. Their practices, not their conceptual business structure.

 

[Spectrum90]

This is really simple and any attempt to complicate this is disingenuous. MS is a software/services company who ALSO has one product that revolves around search (Bing). Yes Bing does a form of data collection, but it's for accuracy more than anything and to absolutely help you. Google is a search company, period. Every product of theirs points back to search and data-mining their users and making it appealing to their users to voluntarily do it. That is their product #1 and the only way they make money. Their mobile OS is free, they make jack **** on hardware. The two companies are completely different. MS provides products to empower you, Google uses you as a product. Google has no other big cash-cow product that keeps their company afloat except advertising based on data-mining their users. MS can take it or leave it, they have plenty of other products.

Every company has an advertising department, just because someone advertises and gathers information about their users it does not put them on equally invasive privacy-snooping footing with Google. Not by a longshot. Are they "bad" because of it? No not just because of that, they are bad because of the way they go about it. Their practices, not their conceptual business structure.

Not really. Google is in many industries:

Cloud computing competing with Azure and AWS.
Productivity apps competing with Office 365.
Self-driving cars.
Broadband services with Google Fiber and about to enter in mobile broadband.
Connectivity infrastructure with Loon, drones and satellites.
Robotics.
And of course they develop the most used operating system in the world, and the most used services in the world.

Microsoft use the same data collection techniques for its ad service. Bing's revenue is close to $1 billion. If you really want to defend your privacy you should be using DuckDuckGo, not Bing.

Both companies are great, provide amazing services and products, and they compete in many product categories.

 

[fatclue_98]

^^Android is the most popular MOBILE operating system. Microsoft Windows is what makes all those things you just mentioned work. Android isn't capable of handling the desktop applications necessary to make those things possible.
Sent from my big *** Lumia 1520

 

[oldpueblo]

...And of course they develop the most used operating system in the world, and the most used services in the world.

How much do they charge people for those? Nothing?!?! Their office competitor is also free?!?! Oh right, because people are paying in a different way (privacy). You know I'm right, you can't dance around it. Yes they have SOME paid products, but they are fringe compared to the very purpose of their business. Their main revenue stream.... is our privacy/data-mining. Which is the exact opposite of MS. Which is why they are two completely different businesses, from top to bottom. And their job is to fool you into wanting to give that privacy up for free, just like millions do for Facebook. To make us think that privacy is no big deal. To put it another way in even simpler terms.

(behold the greatest photoshop ever)




Let me ask you this, do you think that paid services like Google Fiber won't be sniffing all your Internet traffic? "But all ISPs do that" you might say, but for what reason? Infrastructure, security, yeah there are reasons to do this. But you have to have a Google account to use Google Fiber. I'm just tossing a guess out here since I've not read their privacy statement with it, but I'm guessing Google Fiber will be data-mining all your Internet traffic as well. See a common theme here?

 

[Spectrum90]

How much do they charge people for those? Nothing?!?! Their office competitor is also free?!?!

Google docs for consumers is free as Office online for consumers is also free.
Google apps for business is paid as Office 365 is also paid.
https://www.google.com/work/apps/business/pricing.html

How much does Microsoft charge for Windows Phone and full Windows in small tablets? Nothing?

Microsoft and Google are similar.

(Those photoshops could be better.)

 

[fatclue_98]

Microsoft and Google are similar.

Please, that doesn't even pass the laugh test. Do yourself a favor and speak with your brain and not your heart.

 

[tgp]

How are Microsoft's once-paid now-free services funded? Office online, virtually unlimited OneDrive, Windows for devices <9" for example? Isn't there even an HP Stream 7 w/ads? Windows is also much lower cost than it used to be, and upgrades are now mostly free. How are they covering the costs?