03-18-2015 02:21 AM
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  1. Vaibhav Vibhu's Avatar
    My question is Should MSFT ban google services on windows?? As windows is the most popular and major OS for pc ,laptops ,convertible ,etc. As msft have the higher share on market and the place from where google earns it's major revenue! Baning google will stop the Google's not competitive monopoly for windows phone , such as not giving apps and removing some useful after buying then! This may start a war but something has to be done the evil suckerball google!!
    03-05-2015 10:50 AM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    Instant antitrust lawsuit.
    03-05-2015 10:51 AM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Vaibhav,

    There are a couple of better forums for this:
    Phone Wars - Windows Central Forums is the best fit
    General Microsoft News and Discussion - Windows Central Forums would also serve

    Ask a Question is really geared toward Help and Keeping devices running. The more discussion type questions should go elsewhere if you are a member. You may see many discussion questions here from "Windows Central Question" and these are unregistered guest who don't have the privilege of posting in other forums that you do...

    Please read this advice: http://forums.windowscentral.com/ask...ion-forum.html
    a5cent and snowmutt like this.
    03-05-2015 11:03 AM
  4. JamesDax's Avatar
    03-05-2015 12:00 PM
  5. ML10's Avatar
    That could help or hurt very badly. While Microsoft does control the market share for PCs, many people use those services. People might get angry and leave for those services.

    I hate Google with all my heart, but we don't want to mimic their childishness.
    03-05-2015 12:05 PM
  6. Pete's Avatar
    Thread moved.

    Microsoft is more of a services company than a product company and is mature enough to support it's customers regardless of what platform they're using. Denying Android and Apple customers won't do anything other than encourage them to stick with that platform.
    03-05-2015 12:08 PM
  7. Talderon's Avatar
    No.
    My thoughts exactly. There is no justification for how Google is treating the Microsoft Platform and there would be no justification for MS to do the same.

    Now, their CHOICE to exclude WP for their apps is their decision. The fact that they CHOSE to kill the API's that allowed 3rd party Dev's to put and keep their products and services off the platform was just childish.

    I respect Apple and Google for what they have done to the landscape of the mobile market, but making themselves the Islands that they are will only give them gains in the short term. Long Game will go to those that are willing to work with everyone to make their products and services more appealing.

    What MS did for outside developers to bring us Flipboard and and trueCaller/True Dialer shows how much Microsoft is willing to do to help. If you recall, for TrueCaller/TrueDialer, there were some core OS changes needed to make these apps work. The Lockscreen Beta app and Tetra Lockscreen needed some changes made outside their control and ability to make those work.

    If MS can keep this up, I think they can go the distance in the long run. But the restrictions that Google places on device manufactures is going to come back and bite them.

    Look at what Cyanogen Mod is trying to do. Part of their mission is to "take Android away from Google". I think this is a great move. Bring it back to open source (which is one of the driving things that brought such support to the platform) and remove the (no longer free) Google Apps from being the driving factor in being able to strong arm manufactures into paying these licensing fees.

    Ok, so I am moving away from the subject here. Sorry, but I think things are going to go a lot better for Microsoft when they reveal their new Flagship Lineup with Windows 10 for Phones. They are really working hard to be more innovative rather than catching up to what is already going on. the Surface Pro lineup did just that (I mean look at the SP3... *drools*).

    I have high hopes but realistic expectations. I can't wait!
    03-05-2015 01:08 PM
  8. fdalbor's Avatar
    I just hope I live long enough to see if Microsofts approach is the correct one. I having nothing against Android (I own two Kindle Fires and a Moto G lte). But because of the way they are I don't have a single Google app on any of them. And probably never will. My and my wife's phones and backups are all WP, and our three computers are all 8.1.
    snowmutt likes this.
    03-05-2015 03:18 PM
  9. Spectrum90's Avatar
    My question is Should MSFT ban google services on windows?? As windows is the most popular and major OS for pc ,laptops ,convertible ,etc. As msft have the higher share on market and the place from where google earns it's major revenue! Baning google will stop the Google's not competitive monopoly for windows phone , such as not giving apps and removing some useful after buying then! This may start a war but something has to be done the evil suckerball google!!
    That would be equivalent to Google removing Microsoft Office apps from Play Store to promote their own Office apps, and that's illegal.

    What Google is doing is the same that Microsoft is doing with Ubuntu or Chromebooks. It's not profitable to develop an app for a platform with a small number of users. Windows Phone has to grow more to get better support from developers. Universal apps will help with that.
    MarkusDindu likes this.
    03-05-2015 04:47 PM
  10. Talderon's Avatar
    That would be equivalent to Google removing Microsoft Office apps from Play Store to promote their own Office apps, and that's illegal.

    What Google is doing is the same that Microsoft is doing with Ubuntu or Chromebooks. It's not profitable to develop an app for a platform with a small number of users. Windows Phone has to grow more to get better support from developers. Universal apps will help with that.
    TL;DR= More Rambles.

    I can agree with you to a point on this, as Google may have decided to not develop the apps themselves because of the cost to user base.

    However, what is their excuse to close all of AIP's they have closed to just ensure that 3rd party developers cannot create these apps themselves?

    I mean, they argued security concerns, but that is a load of crap. If it was REALLY for that reason, then why does every other platform have an API that 3rd party dev's can use?

    Personally, with the way that Google has changed their business practices, I think they are just circling their wagons and alienating people that don't believe in the "New Google Way: Drink the Kool-Aid".

    When I realized that they are doing everything they can to kill independent innovation for the platform, I was ready to jump ship.

    The Amazon Kindle line is a perfect example. The only reason Amazon can only have one manufacturer make the devices is that all other manufactures were told by Google that if they make a non-Google device, they will lose their license to make Google devices.

    Samsung was working hard to gain momentum to move out of the Google iron grip with TouchWiz, but in the end, it just didn't get the momentum they needed to drop everything Google. Now they are signed up with Microsoft, but who knows how well that will go over. If Google pulls their ability to make Google branded devices, they may back off and drop the Microsoft alliance.

    Microsoft is investing in Cyanogen Mod because they have seen what Google is doing and their plan is to "take Android away from Google". Ultimately, in the end, Google broke their promise to the early adapters of Android. It didn't stay fully Open Source and they have worked hard to keep the Custom ROM's from pre-packaging Google apps.

    In the end, the landscape will change, just not sure how to see what the actual end-game with all this movement, but all I really want to see is the choices and availability of those choices for the consumer to grow and allow us to pick what best fits our needs.
    03-06-2015 06:34 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar




    What Google is doing is the same that Microsoft is doing with Ubuntu or Chromebooks. It's not profitable to develop an app for a platform with a small number of users.
    With roughly 70 million users, WP has long past the point where building apps for the platform becomes financially viable for Google. You can prove it to yourself if you wish.
    Search online for Google's average revenue per Android user, and multiply a tenth of that (just to be safe) times 70 million. That far ...FAR... exceeds the average development cost for an app.

    Google obviously has other reasons not to support WP, but what you're advocating isn't it. It may have been three years ago, but no more...
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-06-2015 at 09:07 AM.
    tgp, jmshub, RumoredNow and 1 others like this.
    03-06-2015 07:13 AM
  12. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    It's up to us, the public to ban Google things from our products, not the corporations.

    I have got rid of everything Google, not simply for their practice toward windows (which is pathetic!) but for their abuse of privacy, for their theft of iOS, to me google is criminal, they are cheats who will exploit individuals as the product that they can make money off.

    So I don't engage with them, for those that don't like their practices, this is the method of protest, as more become aware more will question if they are happy with googles methods.
    03-06-2015 08:21 AM
  13. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I can agree with you to a point on this, as Google may have decided to not develop the apps themselves because of the cost to user base.
    However, what is their excuse to close all of AIP's they have closed to just ensure that 3rd party developers cannot create these apps themselves?
    What APIs are they closing?
    There are many Google Drive and Gmail clients in the Windows store.
    The Google search app is in the Windows store.
    Youtube is more difficult because they have to show ads. Besides Youtube is not profitable Google has to control the experience to try to make money from it, Twitter is doing the same.

    The Amazon Kindle line is a perfect example. The only reason Amazon can only have one manufacturer make the devices is that all other manufactures were told by Google that if they make a non-Google device, they will lose their license to make Google devices.
    Samsung was working hard to gain momentum to move out of the Google iron grip with TouchWiz, but in the end, it just didn't get the momentum they needed to drop everything Google. Now they are signed up with Microsoft, but who knows how well that will go over. If Google pulls their ability to make Google branded devices, they may back off and drop the Microsoft alliance.
    Can Amazon fork Windows or iOS to build their devices? Thanks too Google Amazon is in the Devices business.
    Of course Gogole has to protect Android to some extend, but they give the biggest part of it for free, they only protect the aspect related to their services.
    Does Google have to invest billions developing an operating system and give it for free to other companies to modify it without any limitations, to make money from it without giving anything back? Is Microsoft doing that?
    That's not sustainable.

    Microsoft is investing in Cyanogen Mod because they have seen what Google is doing and their plan is to "take Android away from Google". Ultimately, in the end, Google broke their promise to the early adapters of Android. It didn't stay fully Open Source and they have worked hard to keep the Custom ROM's from pre-packaging Google apps.
    Open source code can't be closed afterwards. The code that Google made open source is there to be used, and they keep improving it. That's why Cyanogen exists.
    Microsoft is investing in Cyanogen, but can Cyanogen fork Windows and even try to take Windows away from Microsoft?


    With roughly 70 million users, WP has long past the point where building apps for the platform becomes financially viable for Google. You can prove it to yourself if you wish.
    Search online for Google's average revenue per Android user, and multiply a tenth of that (just to be safe) times 70 million. That far ...FAR... exceeds the average development cost for an app.

    Google obviously has other reasons not to support WP, but what you're advocating isn't it. It may have been three years ago, but no more...
    Where did you get 70 million? A Microsoft employee was talking of 50 million activations a few months ago. I doubt that the Windows Phone user base is bigger than 50 million right now. Besides, the quality of the user base make a big difference, one iOS user is equivalent to 5 or more Windows Phone users.
    Ubuntu has 30 million users and Microsoft doesn't support them. Android had to cross the 1 billion users barrier to get a Microsoft Office app that Windows Phone got from day one.
    Last edited by Spectrum90; 03-06-2015 at 10:09 AM.
    03-06-2015 09:38 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    With roughly 70 million users, WP has long past the point where building apps for the platform becomes financially viable for Google. You can prove it to yourself if you wish.
    Search online for Google's average revenue per Android user, and multiply a tenth of that (just to be safe) times 70 million. That far ...FAR... exceeds the average development cost for an app.

    Google obviously has other reasons not to support WP, but what you're advocating isn't it. It may have been three years ago, but no more...
    Google is probably also figuring in the profit by hurting WP's growth. All things considered they still see it better to do as their doing. Don't kid yourself; if they thought at the end of the day (meaning taking all factors into consideration) they could profit by building WP apps, they would do it.

    To illustrate what I mean, let's assume that they figure a profit overall of $1 billion/year (I have no idea what the real numbers are). This is income minus expenses. But, Google also knows that some users would choose WP over Android because their apps are now available. That might amount to a decrease in revenue of more than $1 billion. When you look at it like that, their decision pencils out.

    Sure, they could profit on the apps themselves, but overall it might be a net loss when you factor in all the other effects. And they might even be figuring more long term, like factoring in effects years down the road.

    Google, like every other company, is out to maximize profits. Every decision they make is based on that. It's the same with Microsoft and Apple. They're not out to be Santa Claus or even just to be nice. The reason they all do what they do, including acting like Santa Claus and being nice, is to get more money from us, their customers.
    03-06-2015 09:43 AM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    Where did you get 70 million? A Microsoft employee was talking of 50 million activations a few months ago. I doubt that the Windows Phone user base is bigger than 50 million right now.
    That's completely irrelevant. Some sources say 70, some say 50, it might as well be 40 million. Makes no difference. Even if it's 40, for a company like Google who's services are so popular and in demand, the user base is still big enough to provide a ROI that justifies the cost of an app.
    Like I said, do the math and you'll see.
    You're right of course that MS also isn't providing their services for every platform, but I'm not the one claiming market share is the reason for that. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Google is evil incarnate and MS can do no wrong. They are both just making sound and reasonable business decisions (see tgp's post). Google just can't publicly admit to those reasons without most (IMHO unfairly) viewing them as jerks, which is how "market share" became the official talking point. Far too many drank that cool aid.
    03-06-2015 10:12 AM
  16. Spectrum90's Avatar
    That's completely irrelevant. Some sources say 70, some say 50, it might as well be 40 million. Makes no difference. Even if it's 40, for a company like Google who's services are so popular and in demand, the user base is still big enough to provide a ROI that justifies the cost of an app.
    Like I said, do the math and you'll see.
    You're right of course that MS also isn't providing their services for every platform, but I'm not the one claiming market share is the reason for that. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Google is evil incarnate and MS can do no wrong. They are both just making sound and reasonable business decisions (see tgp's post). Google just can't publicly admit to those reasons without most (IMHO unfairly) viewing them as jerks, which is how "market share" became the official talking point. Far too many drank that cool aid.
    Google's most important revenue source is Search. The Google Search app is in the Windows Phone store.
    What other Google app do you want?
    Gmail, Maps? Would google make any money with a Gmail or Maps app on Windows Phone?
    Youtube? Youtube is not profitable.

    Twitter, Facebook and even Microsoft aren't supporting Windows Phone with much interest, why should Google do it?

    Moral principles are a good business investment, specially for companies with high media exposure. I don't see any evidence that Google is actively trying to damage Windows Phone.
    snowmutt likes this.
    03-06-2015 10:31 AM
  17. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Google, like every other company, is out to maximize profits. Every decision they make is based on that. It's the same with Microsoft and Apple. They're not out to be Santa Claus or even just to be nice. The reason they all do what they do, including acting like Santa Claus and being nice, is to get more money from us, their customers.
    Yes, but Google's has to maximize 20 years or more of profits, not only this year's profit. Google's profits depends on the trust of the public, people is giving them a lot of information. If Google breaks that trust with nasty business tactics, they could get a short term profit, but they are damaging one of their more important asset. They wouldn't be maximizing the value for their shareholders.

    Given the nature of Google's businesses they maximize their value avoiding any action that could be detrimental to their image.
    03-06-2015 10:44 AM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    Yes, but Google's has to maximize 20 years or more of profits, not only this year's profit. Google's profits depends on the trust of the public, people is giving them a lot of information. If Google breaks that trust with nasty business tactics, they could get a short term profit, but they are damaging one of their more important asset. They wouldn't be maximizing the value for their shareholders.

    Given the nature of Google's businesses they maximize their value avoiding any action that could be detrimental to their image.
    True. And I'm sure that Google took all of this into consideration. We're armchair CEOs; they have the real ones!
    03-06-2015 10:50 AM
  19. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...quality of the user base make a big difference, one iOS user is equivalent to 5 or more Windows Phone users.
    What exactly does that mean? What is that based on? What are you trying to say there?

    If what you are implying is an iPhone user spends 5 times the amount yearly on their device/ecosystem as a Windows Phone user, I'd like to see the data. I understand all things Apple are over valuated, but that amount sounds false to me. I'd really like a link or even 5 links, thank you very much.

    If you aren't comparing expenditures... What is that supposed to mean?
    jmshub and snowmutt like this.
    03-06-2015 10:57 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    What other Google app do you want?
    I don't want any. Why? Because when I switched to WP there weren't any, so I switched to MS' offerings and found out I liked them just as well or better.


    Youtube? Youtube is not profitable.
    All the more reason, one would think, to provide an app for WP. With those apps we have we are not presented with advertisements, so Google earns no money from us. Millions would prefer an official YouTube app over 3rd party offerings, so why not? More importantly, Google wouldn't even have had to build or pay for the app. MS made multiple attempts to build an official YouTube app based on Google's specifications. All were shot down. At the end, Google's justifications amounted to no more than: "because".


    I don't see any evidence that Google is actively trying to damage Windows Phone.
    The only way that's possible is if you don't want to see it. You need look no further than the YouTube example I mentioned. And honestly, Google would be stupid not to actively damage WP. That is, after all, in their best interest.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-06-2015 at 11:16 AM.
    RumoredNow and neo158 like this.
    03-06-2015 11:06 AM
  21. tgp's Avatar
    The only way that's possible is if you don't want to see it. And honestly, Google would be stupid not to actively damage WP. That is, after all, in their best interest.
    Agreed. All businesses try in some way to best their competitors. Microsoft for example expressed an interest in assisting with taking control of Android away from Google. Nice guy, right?

    I understand how users here who love Microsoft and hate Google don't like this, but I do not understand how anybody can say that this is an evil, illegal, and unethical move on the part of Google. I guarantee you that if the situation was reversed, Microsoft would be doing the same thing. It's business. At the moment Google happens to be in the driver's seat on this front.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-06-2015 11:12 AM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...I understand how users here who love Microsoft and hate Google don't like this...
    You always revert to "fanboism" in your arguments.

    I have no particular Love of Microsoft. I'm on this platform now. I've not always been and I am still open to something better. That something better has not come along and it is not Android and all-in with the Google ecosystem. I've been there, done that.

    Disliking Google's invasiveness needs no deeper meaning than that surface. As tech becomes more proliferated, as ad filtering becomes better... Google has grown more desperate to dominate every screen and circumvent those methods that users have to opt out of viewing ads. The fact that they placed ads in my email box and blocked my legitimate click into an article by superimposing an ad is not something I want in my life. It is an unwanted and unasked for intrusion pure and simple.

    I used Chrome for years and just switched off it about 2 months ago.. I was heavily into Android, supporting Nexus financially and advocating for it. I had two different Google TV streaming devices.

    To say that those who feel cheated and betrayed by Google, that those who speak out against it, who feel invaded by an ad-centric organization that wants to track and pounce without remorse are all some fanbois beholden to another master greatly oversimplifies things.

    Play another note - that one is flat.
    neo158 likes this.
    03-06-2015 11:58 AM
  23. bsayegh's Avatar
    While I agree that Google is very shady in its dealings with MSFT, I don't think it would help MSFT to ban the services. All of the people who use Gmail, GChat, Drive, and so on wouldn't just say "oh that's okay, ill just use Outlook, Skype, and Onedrive"! It will be more like "What the hell, seriously? You disabled half of the things I use on my laptop? Im getting a Chromebook".

    Im not a fan of MS releasing apps for Android though. Most people who own an Android phone aren't going to use OneDrive. They aren't going to look for Xbox Music or something. They are going to stick with the Google products that come preloaded on the phone. Putting MS products on Android just gives people more reason to disregard WP.
    hidayat225 likes this.
    03-06-2015 12:07 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    You always revert to "fanboism" in your arguments.
    You're the one who called what I said "fanboism", not me! I didn't say that at all. I was saying that I do actually understand the position of those who actually do love Microsoft and hate Google. Are they fanboys? Call them whatever you want. That wasn't my point. But if the shoe fits...

    This forum makes a lot of digs at "iSheep" and iHerd" those who simply "follow the crowd". I see it as the pot calling the kettle black. I actively use a Nexus 6, a Lumia 920, and an iPhone 5. I also have a couple Android tablets, an iPad Mini 2, and 2 laptops with Windows 8.1, as well as a desktop currently running Windows 10 TP. The device I use more than any other is my PC at work with Windows 8.1 Enterprise.

    What am I?

    While I agree that Google is very shady in its dealings with MSFT, I don't think it would help MSFT to ban the services. All of the people who use Gmail, GChat, Drive, and so on wouldn't just say "oh that's okay, ill just use Outlook, Skype, and Onedrive"! It will be more like "What the hell, seriously? You disabled half of the things I use on my laptop? Im getting a Chromebook".

    Im not a fan of MS releasing apps for Android though. Most people who own an Android phone aren't going to use OneDrive. They aren't going to look for Xbox Music or something. They are going to stick with the Google products that come preloaded on the phone. Putting MS products on Android just gives people more reason to disregard WP.
    The answer to why Microsoft released apps for Android and iOS is in your first paragraph. Android users (and iOS users) weren't going to go out and get a WP because Office wasn't available. They were moving towards Google Docs and iWorks because they were available. Those products aren't even in the same league as Office, but for most users they're good enough.
    03-06-2015 12:10 PM
  25. MarkusDindu's Avatar
    Google and Microsoft have a long history together, starting in 1998. Back then, Microsoft was a tyrant, and some folk in the tech world are still mad about this Embrace, extend and extinguish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Today though, I learned that Google and Microsoft are working on a project together. This is a good sign, because it is a BIG first step towards peace between the to companies.

    Microsoft And Google Collaborate On Angular 2 Framework, TypeScript Language | TechCrunch
    snowmutt likes this.
    03-06-2015 11:48 PM
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