How are "Universal Apps" going to get us "these" apps??

[Jazmac]

I be seen several Surface Pros.

Very true. I see them often at my local Starbucks. ("local starbucks", they are all pretty much local but you get my point)

 

[Alain_A]

If I don't have an app I use the browser. Work well for me

 

[Mike Gibson]

Good point but man, but how in all that is pure and holy is our very existence centered around a few developers? This is nuts that a few developers can be said that can make or break this platform. At least in the minds of "some bloggers" spreading this garbage.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say ... but if you're wondering why few developers create programs for WinRT systems, it's because of the significant time and effort required combined with a lack of sales. See my earlier reply to EBUK for an idea of some of the challenges. It's all pain, no gain. For the same amount of work you can reach 10X more users on iOS and Android.

Even in the MSFT world, WinRT systems have small sales. My tiny software company only produces Windows programs and last year my WP app sales were 0.7% of the total (Win32 programs were 99.7%).

 

[Laura Knotek]

Those 2 apps are not iPad specific, but yes they are available on iOS as iPhone/iPad apps.

I've seen plenty of iPads in Starbucks, but I've never seen anyone scan an iPad at the register. I don't see why anyone would use the Starbucks app on a tablet.

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

 

[runamuck83]

I suppose the mere fact that (hopefully) there will be a lot of new apps due to the Windows "Universal" Apps - there may be a ripple effect causing more people to get into Windows Phones, thereby causing more developers to jump onto making mobile-specific apps for Windows Phone??

Or am I a glass-half full type of person here?

 

[Mike Gibson]

I suppose the mere fact that (hopefully) there will be a lot of new apps due to the Windows "Universal" Apps - there may be a ripple effect causing more people to get into Windows Phones, thereby causing more developers to jump onto making mobile-specific apps for Windows Phone??

Or am I a glass-half full type of person here?

Maybe MSFT will pull a rabbit out of its hat, I don't know. I do know that WinRT10 is significantly better than WinPRT80 (which is what I'm using for my WP app). I haven't downloaded the SDK, just read and viewed the stuff on MSDN, but you can already see the improvements.

One big problem is that it'll take a long time for WP10 to propagate to my users' phones so I won't be able to concentrate on a WinRT10 app for quite a while.

 

[runamuck83]

Maybe MSFT will pull a rabbit out of its hat, I don't know. I do know that WinRT10 is significantly better than WinPRT80 (which is what I'm using for my WP app). I haven't downloaded the SDK, just read and viewed the stuff on MSDN, but you can already see the improvements.

One big problem is that it'll take a long time for WP10 to propagate to my users' phones so I won't be able to concentrate on a WinRT10 app for quite a while.

Microsoft needs a way around the carriers to get W10 on phones sooner rather than later. Wonder what their plan is there....

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So, "Windows" (Universal) apps sound fantastic, but how is this platform going to gain us apps like "Starbucks", "Dunkin Donuts", etc. etc.?

These types of apps have no purpose on a tablet or a desktop so what incentive at all is there to make these apps?

How does "universal apps" help at all in this type of situation? An app that really only serves a mobile purpose...

Just read the first post so apologize if already been said: Universal apps get us mobile only apps by increasing the number of people who buy and use Windows phones. So the people who use their phones for other things than ordering coffee buy Windows phones for the apps that do appear because of universal apps. That means a higher percent of Starbuck customers have Windows phones which means Starbuck will want to publish a Windows app. They don't dislike WP or any other phone, its just not worth the fixed cost of making the app if it just brings in a few customers. Businesses don't publish things like the number of customers it takes to warrant an app. We could be very close or very far, but there is a magic number they calculated and filed away that makes the call. Its possible that as little as just one more guaranteed customer would do the trick or maybe thousands; no way to know unless you have access to those files and analysis. But either way, more universal apps means more WPs, more WPs mean more apps, including apps that are just for phones.

p.s. I don't go to Starbucks or Dunkin, etc, so if any of those already have a WP app, consider my reference taken from the OP as generic examples.

 

[Mike Gibson]

Microsoft needs a way around the carriers to get W10 on phones sooner rather than later. Wonder what their plan is there....

MSFT doesn't have the pull with carriers to get to iOS-levels of update distribution. The carriers are very powerful. When they think phone producer XXX is getting too powerful in the industry, they start promoting phone producer YYY. Next thing you know, phone producer YYY is soaring up the sales charts. When YYY gets too big for its britches, guess what, YYY starts declining and ZZZ is the new up-and-coming star. It's almost magical

The carriers that I know about want Windows Phone to be a viable alternative but it can never get traction with customers. I don't know what the solution is for that. I thought that carriers promoting subsidy-free plans would kill expensive iPhones but it definitely hasn't happened yet. That's why I'm all for MSFT focusing on low-end prices for their phones. Eventually, customers will see the true price they're paying for their shiny new phone and start looking for lower-priced alternatives. Does MSFT have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out for the long term?

BTW, a second avenue of attack would be for MSFT to make Visual Studio the best tool for mobile development regardless of the output platform (WP, iOS, Android). Make it as close to a one-click multiplatform output as possible. That way devs could quickly generate apps for all three platforms. Unfortunately, the lack of OpenGL ES support and presence of the cancerous Async in WinRT makes that next to impossible.

 

[Spectrum90]

Universal apps in Windows 10 is mostly the same as in Windows 8, just minor improvements. I don't expect any change in the app situation.

IMO, Microsoft has two options:
1)Adding support for Android apps in Windows.
2)Wait 10 years until innovation in phones stops and HTML5 is adopted as the platform for mobile.

We all can agree that support for Android apps is the only way forward.

 

[tgp]

We all can agree that support for Android apps is the only way forward.

I don't think we all can agree on that! I think it would be more reasonable to agree that the universal app strategy in Windows 10 is the only way forward. A form of the universal app model is already present in W8.1/WP8.1. The problem is that it didn't seem to do much of anything. It remains to be seen how it will play out in Windows 10.

It is possible that support for Android apps is what is needed. However, I believe the likelihood of that working is far less than the likelihood of universal apps working, as far as giving WP the propulsion it needs.

 

[Mike Gibson]

Universal apps in Windows 10 is mostly the same as in Windows 8, just minor improvements.

No, there are significant improvements in WinRT10 compared to WinRT81. For example, I can use a single source tree that will run on WP, XBOX, and a PC. In WinRT81 you had to create two different trees. That's a huge logistical improvement right there. In addition, they've added adaptive controls and the concept of "screen size triggers" to help deal with the huge variation in screen sizes across devices. These were two of the points in my email opus to SteveB back in early 2013 (which was a vent ... but someone actually read it because I was contacted by an EE at MSFT- not that it had anything to do with the changes in WinRT10).

I don't think these changes will stop the bleeding because of the other fatal flaws in the WinRT concept and implementation. I think that MSFT has to adopt an "embrace" policy right now with regards to the other platforms. They can worry about the "Extend, and Extinguish" part in the distant future.

 

[Spectrum90]

No, there are significant improvements in WinRT10 compared to WinRT81. For example, I can use a single source tree that will run on WP, XBOX, and a PC. In WinRT81 you had to create two different trees. That's a huge logistical improvement right there. In addition, they've added adaptive controls and the concept of "screen size triggers" to help deal with the huge variation in screen sizes across devices.

You can already use a single source tree with Universal apps in 8.1. Compilation constants are used to fork the code when there are differences. The "Shared" project automate the management of the files. Phone and desktop/tablet share 90% of the API surface.
In Windows 10, additionally you can compile a single binary because WinRT expose the whole API surface to all the targets, even if some parts are device-specific, but those parts throw exceptions, so you have to move the conditional logic to the runtime code. That's a little improvement that has both benefits and drawbacks.
Adaptive controls were introduced in 8.1, for example the Hub control, and of course most of the basic controls (textbox, etc.).
Other minor improvement in 10.0 is better support for responsive design, It's a bit easier with the relative panel and improvements in "visual states". However, responsive design doesn't produce the best results, probably an Android apps would be better.

In conclusion, minor changes that won't alter the result in a significant way.

It is possible that support for Android apps is what is needed. However, I believe the likelihood of that working is far less than the likelihood of universal apps working, as far as giving WP the propulsion it needs.

How are you calculating those likelihoods?
Universal apps already failed in 8.1. Since when repeating the same thing could bring different results?
The only relevant change in 10.0 is the higher adoption expected in Desktops. Although, as was discussed in many threads in this forum, people don't use the PC for the same tasks than phones and tablets. In addition, the development platform for the desktop is the web. If developer are interested in being published in the Windows store, and get real estate in the start menu, they can pack their current desktop sites and extended them with platform specific features. What's the point of investing thousand of dollars in developing for a new platform, language and API?

 

[runamuck83]

The only relevant change in 10.0 is the higher adoption expected in Desktops. Although, as was discussed in many threads in this forum, people don't use the PC for the same tasks than phones and tablets. In addition, the development platform for the desktop is the web.

I wouldn't mind a nice set of universal apps for my desktop. I can see a facebook desktop app or even instagram? But my concern was more with the truly mobile-only type apps.

Personally the only thing I think the universal apps are going to gain us are more games... Sadly

 

[neo158]

You guys are also forgetting about Xamarin which will make it much easier to port apps from iOS and Android to Windows.

Microsoft are trying to make it easier for developers not harder, so between Xamarin and Windows Apps there is no reason for developers not to bring their apps to Windows.

 

[alexander0311]

You guys are also forgetting about Xamarin which will make it much easier to port apps from iOS and Android to Windows.

Microsoft are trying to make it easier for developers not harder, so between Xamarin and Windows Apps there is no reason for developers not to bring their apps to Windows.

just googled it since im not a developer. it looks good. ms should somehow push further their winRT in order make easier for developers to use even more code from their ios and android apps into windows apps

 

[HoosierDaddy]

just googled it

Oh no! Don't you know that every time you Google a kitten dies (but not before getting a bunch or targeted ads)? LoL

 

[alexander0311]

Oh no! Don't you know that every time you Google a kitten dies (but not before getting a bunch or targeted ads)? LoL

lmao. yup im not (yet) using bing. one day maybe ill give it a try (maybe with spartan), but also i dont know how good is it in my country (romania). as for adds, internet is already filled with them, for the majority i run adblock.

 

[Geddeeee]

So, "Windows" (Universal) apps sound fantastic, but how is this platform going to gain us apps like "Starbucks", "Dunkin Donuts", etc. etc.?

These types of apps have no purpose on a tablet or a desktop so what incentive at all is there to make these apps?

How does "universal apps" help at all in this type of situation? An app that really only serves a mobile purpose...

Why I would want apps for a coffee shop and a doughnut store, is beyond me. Must be a U.S. thing!!!! Unbelievable...

 

[forked]

I'm hoping that the 'Universal' in Universal apps doesn't just mean universal to the various form factors of Windows but universal to the major platforms. Being able to write the code once and deploy to multiple stores simultaneously would be truly universal. I know Xamarin helps with this but if I understand correctly it has some limitations. Maybe they have found a way to get past them. Looking forward to learning more at Build.