03-30-2015 09:01 PM
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  1. runamuck83's Avatar
    So, "Windows" (Universal) apps sound fantastic, but how is this platform going to gain us apps like "Starbucks", "Dunkin Donuts", etc. etc.?

    These types of apps have no purpose on a tablet or a desktop so what incentive at all is there to make these apps?

    How does "universal apps" help at all in this type of situation? An app that really only serves a mobile purpose...
    03-27-2015 07:23 PM
  2. ven07's Avatar
    Some developers have said that the WP community is too small, so they won't support it.. With the fact that making one app for one type of device can translate into more and different types of devices, the amount of users grows exponentially. This takes away the "small community" problem..

    It's not a great solution, but it's something.. However it still depends on the devs if they want to support or not
    gpobernardo and prasath1234 like this.
    03-27-2015 07:35 PM
  3. Matt Addy's Avatar
    Then they will make their Windows App only usable to phone users. Windows Apps won't have to be universal they will just have the ability to be. Hope this fixes the matter for you.
    03-27-2015 07:35 PM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    Some developers have said that the WP community is too small, so they won't support it.. With the fact that making one app for one type of device can translate into more and different types of devices, the amount of users grows exponentially. This takes away the "small community" problem..
    Your theory is correct, but like runamuck83 said, some apps serve no purpose on a PC. For those, the "universal" aspect does not add any value. The potential user base is essentially unchanged.
    03-27-2015 08:01 PM
  5. runamuck83's Avatar
    Your theory is correct, but like runamuck83 said, some apps serve no purpose on a PC. For those, the "universal" aspect does not add any value. The potential user base is essentially unchanged.
    Exactly my point.
    03-27-2015 08:10 PM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Don't forget to count all the tablets being brought into the fold...
    ven07, a5cent, gpobernardo and 1 others like this.
    03-27-2015 09:16 PM
  7. Robinsonmac's Avatar
    Don't forget to count all the tablets being brought into the fold...
    Exactly, if you add all the windows tablets plus phones you get a much larger user base, and tablets are considered mobile devices.
    ven07 likes this.
    03-27-2015 09:20 PM
  8. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Exactly, if you add all the windows tablets plus phones you get a much larger user base, and tablets are considered mobile devices.
    Do we have any reliable Windows Tablet numbers?
    03-27-2015 09:30 PM
  9. sleeve22's Avatar
    Yeah it will be tablets if anything that will contribute to growth of universal apps. There should be enough tablets in use to drive some amount of growth. Fingers crossed.
    03-27-2015 10:26 PM
  10. ven07's Avatar
    Do we have any reliable Windows Tablet numbers?
    Lol nope, but with W10 coming, people will want to test it out and why not do that on a cheap portable device.. Coincidentally we have a lot of those around nowadays
    gpobernardo likes this.
    03-27-2015 10:27 PM
  11. runamuck83's Avatar
    Don't forget to count all the tablets being brought into the fold...
    For sake of comparison, does iPad have Starbucks and Dunkin donuts apps??? I honestly don't know
    03-28-2015 06:43 AM
  12. EBUK's Avatar
    Windows on tablets still leaves a lot to be desired. The fact that they can run x86 binaries means there is no real need for Windows Apps on them.

    I have a Linx 10, and using apps on it is very poor compared to running x86 programs. Poor = slow (very slow) load times, awkward gestures to complete tasks, clunky interfaces.

    There is no real reason for a developer to move from x86 apps to Windows Apps - the only bonus is a few extra users on Windows Phone. If I were a dev of iOS / Android apps, I would want a easier was to port my apps to WP rather than the promise of Universal Apps which are pretty much pointless on the desktop as has already been pointed out.
    Evronian and prasath1234 like this.
    03-28-2015 07:11 AM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    For sake of comparison, does iPad have Starbucks and Dunkin donuts apps??? I honestly don't know
    Those 2 apps are not iPad specific, but yes they are available on iOS as iPhone/iPad apps.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-28-2015 07:27 AM
  14. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Windows on tablets still leaves a lot to be desired. The fact that they can run x86 binaries means there is no real need for Windows Apps on them.
    There are two main problems with running Win32 programs on tablets:

    1. Screen dpi is typically higher than the standard Desktop (96 dpi) and most Win32 programs are not high-dpi aware. That makes the UI elements small. It gets worse on a touch tablet because your fingertip is a very coarse pointing device, so the UI elements need to be even larger.

    2. Most Desktop programs don't process the Win32 touch messages (WM_TOUCH and WM_GESTURE). That means they're processed by USER32 into coarse mouse message equivalents, which are processed by Desktop programs. It works but doesn't give you that smooth touch interaction. Intel has a opens source library that takes the WM_TOUCH messages and responds with smooth gesture messages for Win32 programs.

    I have a Linx 10, and using apps on it is very poor compared to running x86 programs. Poor = slow (very slow) load times, awkward gestures to complete tasks, clunky interfaces.
    The WinRT framework's performance is poor ... but it shouldn't be *that* much slower.

    There is no real reason for a developer to move from x86 apps to Windows Apps - the only bonus is a few extra users on Windows Phone.
    That's the killer flaw in the whole Universal App Platform. If it was 10 years ago, where Windows was dominant in overall computing, then introducing a universal Windows platform would have a chance to promote adoption of Windows tablets and phones. That ship sailed in 2006.

    If I were a dev of iOS / Android apps, I would want a easier was to port my apps to WP rather than the promise of Universal Apps which are pretty much pointless on the desktop as has already been pointed out.
    The WinRT design team's decision to go Async in the actual OS API made it orthogonal to existing phone and tablet OSes, so porting from iOS and Android is not trivial for simple things like file access (read Petzold's docs on his attempt to make universal libraries for Xamarin, Async spreads like cancer throughout the project). In addition, WinRT doesn't support OpenGL ES, only Direct3D, which means porting iOS and Android games is nontrivial.

    WinRT's design was fundamentally flawed. It was too different from Win32 so it alienated Win32 programmers. It was too different from iOS and Android, so those devs didn't waste their time accommodating the few Windows Phone users. Yet, here's MSFT in 2015 still promoting the doomed platform. I guess they want to ride it to their grave.
    Andrew Gordon, EBUK and Soulstream like this.
    03-28-2015 10:24 AM
  15. tangledW's Avatar
    So, "Windows" (Universal) apps sound fantastic, but how is this platform going to gain us apps like "Starbucks", "Dunkin Donuts", etc. etc.?

    These types of apps have no purpose on a tablet or a desktop so what incentive at all is there to make these apps?

    How does "universal apps" help at all in this type of situation? An app that really only serves a mobile purpose...
    It doesn't. Move along.
    03-28-2015 10:32 AM
  16. runamuck83's Avatar
    It doesn't. Move along.
    So, maybe that "Android apps" on WinPhone isn't such a bad idea after all...
    03-28-2015 10:56 AM
  17. Jonnie LasVegas's Avatar
    Don't forget to count all the tablets being brought into the fold...
    I've literally never seen a Windows tablet outside of a store. Just doesn't seem like a very big user base there either. But hopefully it helps.
    03-28-2015 11:06 AM
  18. Jazmac's Avatar
    Some developers have said that the WP community is too small, so they won't support it.. With the fact that making one app for one type of device can translate into more and different types of devices, the amount of users grows exponentially. This takes away the "small community" problem..

    It's not a great solution, but it's something.. However it still depends on the devs if they want to support or not
    Good point but man, but how in all that is pure and holy is our very existence centered around a few developers? This is nuts that a few developers can be said that can make or break this platform. At least in the minds of "some bloggers" spreading this garbage.
    RumoredNow and ven07 like this.
    03-28-2015 01:11 PM
  19. tangledW's Avatar
    So, maybe that "Android apps" on WinPhone isn't such a bad idea after all...
    I don't think so, there's a whole new set of issues that would have.

    If I, or anyone here, had the answer we'd be working at Microsoft.
    RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    03-28-2015 01:17 PM
  20. tangledW's Avatar
    I've literally never seen a Windows tablet outside of a store. Just doesn't seem like a very big user base there either. But hopefully it helps.
    I've seen several Surface Pros.
    Last edited by tangledW; 03-28-2015 at 11:26 PM.
    03-28-2015 01:19 PM
  21. Jazmac's Avatar
    I be seen several Surface Pros.
    Very true. I see them often at my local Starbucks. ("local starbucks", they are all pretty much local but you get my point)
    03-28-2015 01:41 PM
  22. Alain_A's Avatar
    If I don't have an app I use the browser. Work well for me
    M L likes this.
    03-28-2015 03:06 PM
  23. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Good point but man, but how in all that is pure and holy is our very existence centered around a few developers? This is nuts that a few developers can be said that can make or break this platform. At least in the minds of "some bloggers" spreading this garbage.
    I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say ... but if you're wondering why few developers create programs for WinRT systems, it's because of the significant time and effort required combined with a lack of sales. See my earlier reply to EBUK for an idea of some of the challenges. It's all pain, no gain. For the same amount of work you can reach 10X more users on iOS and Android.

    Even in the MSFT world, WinRT systems have small sales. My tiny software company only produces Windows programs and last year my WP app sales were 0.7% of the total (Win32 programs were 99.7%).
    a5cent and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-28-2015 03:47 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Those 2 apps are not iPad specific, but yes they are available on iOS as iPhone/iPad apps.
    I've seen plenty of iPads in Starbucks, but I've never seen anyone scan an iPad at the register. I don't see why anyone would use the Starbucks app on a tablet.

    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    03-28-2015 04:30 PM
  25. runamuck83's Avatar
    I suppose the mere fact that (hopefully) there will be a lot of new apps due to the Windows "Universal" Apps - there may be a ripple effect causing more people to get into Windows Phones, thereby causing more developers to jump onto making mobile-specific apps for Windows Phone??

    Or am I a glass-half full type of person here?
    Laura Knotek and RumoredNow like this.
    03-28-2015 06:20 PM
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