MICROSOFT got my attention with these take aways!

[Phone Guy 4567]

Considering no other OS provider divulges details of its systems to the public prior to release, I don't see how the public-at-large should concern themselves with the inner workings of their devices. We as enthusiasts enjoy a "closer look" at what makes our devices tick but I don't think we have any special privileges in deciding what goes in or out. Microsoft has been more than generous in providing technical previews and offering us the opportunity to provide feedback but that certainly doesn't mean we can decide whether a new system of apps is good for the platform unless we know how it works or if it's a detriment to the OS. We are a small minority of a >3% worldwide platform. I'm confident that Microsoft has thought this out cleanly and now the ball's in the developers' court.

The public at large doesn't concern themselves with how this stuff works, and they shouldn't. What they will concern themselves with is app performance, and the performance of these recompiled apps better run as well or better then the iOS or Android counterparts.

With more and more WP apps looking less and less unique from their Android & iOS versions what is the motivation for the average person who doesn't care about the behind the curtain stuff to select WP? IMO after Windows 10 is released developers will give these new compilers a shot but if they don't see usage share increases fairly quickly, or the resulting apps are buggy and require time and effort to fix it's game over.

 

[Spencer Carriveau]

I thought I heard that too... Then no one else mentioned it anywhere. Does that mean we'll get a look at something on Thursday? Or are we misunderstanding completely...

Thank you, I had begun to consider the possibility that I didn't hear him right or remembered it incorrectly(you know, our memory being so failable and inaccurate no matter how accurate we think we are, with each time we recall something we may change or distort it a little bit which is why oral histories handed down generation to generation are largely inaccurate vs recorded history(sorry for the little tangent here)).

 

[a5cent]

Didn't anyone but me notice Joe Belfiore say that they were simulating what continuum on a phone would look like because they don't have the hardware for it yet and he said there were be more about the hardware/reveal it on Thursday(tomorrow)? Meaning potential unveil of new phone.

You misunderstood that.

What you saw at build was the exact state of continuum as it currently exists. Nothing about the UI or how it looks is simulated.

What is being simulated is the currently non-existent hardware that continuum depends in. Think of it as a mini VM. When the hardware becomes available, the VM is swapped out for the real thing, and the OS runs unaltered and (hopefully) as intended.

That's how software developers target future hardware that is still under development.

 

[Indistinguishable]

You misunderstood that.

What you saw at build was the exact state of continuum as it currently exists. Nothing about the UI or how it looks is simulated.

What is being simulated is the currently non-existent hardware that continuum depends in. Think of it as a mini VM. When the hardware becomes available, the VM is swapped out for the real thing, and the OS runs unaltered and (hopefully) as intended.

That's how software developers target future hardware that is still under development.

So then what regarding continuum, and the hardware that can use it, are we to see today?

 

[a5cent]

So then what regarding continuum, and the hardware that can use it, are we to see today?

I don't understand the question. How am I to know what MS intends to present?

 

[Tsang Fai]

Right on the money with this one my friend. It's the reason I left Apple's ecosystem. I used to have Mac Desktops, Macbooks, iPads and of course their phones. Unparalleled build quality but I just couldn't bridge the gap between iOS and OSX. Loved being mobile with the iPad but I always needed OSX for some heavy lifting. It's so liberating carrying a thin and light 10" Windows tablet with "everything" you own then shoving that same device into a dock for a true desktop experience.

I am so looking forward to see how Continuum moves forward. Perhaps one day I'll just be down to a single device.

My story is much like yours. Loved the iPads (owned iPad 1/2/3, iPad Mini 2). Tried to search for many apps which were "supposed" to be productive, but none were up to any standard of productivity. I once owned a MacBook Air. But I found it so stupid to carry three things (phone + tablet + MacBook).

I then realized that iPad was just a lie (at least to people like me who need to do productive tasks). It can never be productive and Apple just doesn't want iPad to be productive (If iPad was a productive device, people would stop buying Macbooks....)

And then I further realized, the whole Apple business is just to make so many products, each serving a single purpose. If you want to do all things, you have to buy all their devices. This is stupid. And I didn't want to be so stupid.

 

[HeyCori]

I was under the assumption that today MS will detail the hardware requirements for Continuum, however, they are not announcing a new phone.

From the demo it looked like some sort of micro-HDMI cable. Though I guess it could of been a USB 3.0 cable.

 

[Indistinguishable]

I don't understand the question. How am I to know what MS intends to present?

Well you're saying that we misunderstood Joe's statement that we'd hear more about hardware & Continuum today. I'm asking: If we misunderstood, then what was Joe saying would happen on Thursday (today)?

 

[TechFreak1]

6) Even though they made a huge splash...they really do need to learn how to hype a key note.......Over an hour of Code based stuff and then huge release after release......They almost lost the attention of the crowd and viewers with an hour long sleeping pill. They need to learn something called rise and fall..... Excite the crowd.....then dull it up a bit....Excite the crowd....then a dull bit.

Any thoughts????

I totally can relate to that, I was literally drifting in and out of asleep. Then again was working late shift last night so that didn't help .

But yeah, I was totally dreading that they would go down the emulation route for Android. Not going to lie I was pretty anxious when Terry Myerson started talking about "current code". So when he said "4 new ways to leverage their existing code & skills", I could hardly contain myself. So much so, me and a cousin had bet that the 4th was definitely Objective-C support. Now he owes me ?100 or a phone (which ever is greater in value) :winktongue:.

As it stands devs not have much excuses not to support Windows Phone, as why wouldn't you?
If you can leverage your Objective-C code and with minimal effort support a whole new audience and reap the benefits.

The only excuses that remain will be just personal preference.

Things are finally looking up, I cant wait for the second keynote to begin as Joe Belfiore mentioned before the continuum demo on phones [At 2:23:25 - first key note] "I should point that we need new hardware for this, I don't have that hardware working today. In fact we are going to try a demo of that at a session on Thursday".

 

[Indistinguishable]

I was under the assumption that today MS will detail the hardware requirements for Continuum, however, they are not announcing a new phone.

From the demo it looked like some sort of micro-HDMI cable. Though I guess it could of been a USB 3.0 cable.

That makes a bit more sense. Looking forward to hearing more about it either way.

The demo did look like a cable. But in the video that Belfiore posted, it seems to be wireless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=48&v=-oi1B9fjVs4

 

[stephen_az]

So there are some things to take away from Build today.....

1) Yes Microsoft wants it's services on iOS and Android, as you can't wipe them from the face of the earth, so best to hook new consumers where they live. Hook them on the services, so later they look at the hardware that has the software.

2) Yes the apps on other OS looked better and has added features that our Windows Phones didn't get..........however that WILL change, and from what was shown today it only gets better from here !!!!!

3) Microsoft has removed any and all blocks and issues Dev's had that stopped them from bringing apps to Windows 10.

4) Microsoft has really really slapped Apple in the face with their One platform many devices/Universal App mind set. A direct shot at Apple and iOS/Mac 2 OS way of doing things.

5) Microsoft is dead serious about it's Mobile Platform !!!! They have planted their feet firm to say they are here to stay.

6) Even though they made a huge splash...they really do need to learn how to hype a key note.......Over an hour of Code based stuff and then huge release after release......They almost lost the attention of the crowd and viewers with an hour long sleeping pill. They need to learn something called rise and fall..... Excite the crowd.....then dull it up a bit....Excite the crowd....then a dull bit.

Any thoughts????

I know I am excited most about Mouse and Keyboard with my Phone.....my Phone can be my Mobile PC....The Tablet interface for my Acer W3 with Windows 10.....Hololens just became something I may invest in after the demo today !!!! Just 1 thing would make my day now....a Microsoft Watch to pair with my Phone!!!!!!!

I am not going to be obnoxious and repost my own long response in another thread but it is here if interested: http://forums.windowscentral.com/wi...unity-embracing-windows-10-a.html#post3079463. Long and short of it is this is simply a bit of euphoria among the platform advocates with no lasting effect. It addresses absolutely nothing with regard to developers for other platforms since it fails to address the actual reality - low user base equals no developer interest. This is a chicken and egg scenario. You need the apps to attract the users but the developers won't bring the apps without the user base to justify. Nothing vis a vis Android and ios developers yesterday actually encourages a developer to port their apps. It only makes it easier for them to do something they already decided they are not doing, or support a platform they already dumped. The major apps that have left Windows Phone in the past few months did not do so because it was difficult to develop a native app. They left because the market share did not justify continued investment. I am sorry but anything short of a no effort solution (an emulator or direct access option) for the disinterested developer community will not solve the problem.

 

[a5cent]

Well you're saying that we misunderstood Joe's statement that we'd hear more about hardware & Continuum today. I'm asking: If we misunderstood, then what was Joe saying would happen on Thursday (today)?

My reply was to spencer and I told him he misunderstood what was being simulated (not the UI, but hardware). Has zilch to do with what you took from it.
Guess you misunderstood that too

 

[Indistinguishable]

My reply was to spencer and I told him he misunderstood what was being simulated (not the UI, but hardware). Has zilch to do with what you took from it.
Guess you misunderstood that too ��

Ah - Just a miscommunication then.

 

[Spectrum90]

I am not going to be obnoxious and repost my own long response in another thread but it is here if interested: http://forums.windowscentral.com/wi...unity-embracing-windows-10-a.html#post3079463. Long and short of it is this is simply a bit of euphoria among the platform advocates with no lasting effect. It addresses absolutely nothing with regard to developers for other platforms since it fails to address the actual reality - low user base equals no developer interest. This is a chicken and egg scenario. You need the apps to attract the users but the developers won't bring the apps without the user base to justify. Nothing vis a vis Android and ios developers yesterday actually encourages a developer to port their apps. It only makes it easier for them to do something they already decided they are not doing, or support a platform they already dumped. The major apps that have left Windows Phone in the past few months did not do so because it was difficult to develop a native app. They left because the market share did not justify continued investment. I am sorry but anything short of a no effort solution (an emulator or direct access option) for the disinterested developer community will not solve the problem.

Absolutely, If Microsoft doesn't provide the environment that the app requires to run without bugs and performance problems, then the strategy fails. If Microsoft transfers to the developers the work to make the app run well on Windows, the strategy fails. The technical solution has to be as transparent as possible.

Eventually, if the developers have success with their apps on Windows they could go an extra mille and use Windows specific APIs to improve the user experience.

 

[ShaneRay]

I was relieved when they let us in on their plans for Android/iOS developers. This is so much better than the emulation route many of us feared. And I think they're doing the best thing they could possibly do. And I'm even a little excited about it.

However, as others have already pointed out, these tools are going to need to be dead simple and insanely quick for the developers or else it all falls down. Even with that there is no guarantee this will entice developers to get their app on the platform.

So, it's a wait and see game.

But, as I said, of all the things Microsoft could do, I think they did the right thing.

 

[xsikal]

Is anyone actually liveblogging keynote #2? I haven't seen anything, even on windows sites like this one.

 

[Spectrum90]

I was relieved when they let us in on their plans for Android/iOS developers. This is so much better than the emulation route many of us feared. And I think they're doing the best thing they could possibly do. And I'm even a little excited about it.

In the case of Android, I think it's exactly what was expected. Android apps running untouched on Windows, with the exact same UI and behavior. Additional APIs are provided to access platform specific features, optionally.
If the app has to be compiled or the apk can be submitted without changes is not clear and is irrelevant. Java is compiled to bytecode which is platform agnostic. As a second step It has be compiled to machine code in the device, or ahead of time. So, any implementation of Android apps require a compiler and the runtime environement, there is nothing new in what they announced.

The support for iOS was a surprise, but Microsoft only showed a game. I'm not so sure they will implement the whole iOS API surface, specially the UI. It could like Xamarin, Objective-C with bindings for WinRT.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

I hope hardware announced later this year blows me away because I am not impressed with Windows 10 for phones/android stuff.

I am impressed by Windows 10 for desktop though.

 

[Kodiak12]

From the demo it looked like some sort of micro-HDMI cable. Though I guess it could of been a USB 3.0 cable.

The new phones shouldn't need any kind of cable as is shown in Joe's demo vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oi1B9fjVs4

This makes me wonder what's on that monitor to make things work wirelessly. Especially if I end up at a hotel room somewhere with a circa 2007 HDMI flat screen. My miracast dongle at home slightly sucks with some lag and that's with a 30/mbps connection. I'd much rather my phone got put into a physical dock with a wired HDMI port like my tablet does now.

 

[RumoredNow]

3) Microsoft has removed any and all blocks and issues Dev's had that stopped them from bringing apps to Windows 10.

Not quite.

Don't discount prejudicial mindset. For Example: SnapChat very likely won't touch the porting tool. They passed when 6snap was offered to them free and clear as a ready-made App they could take over... I'm just saying that no matter how attractive and easy it is to pick up an extra market some won't no matter what, just out of spite

Also, don't forget that for certain Apps they have ongoing costs that have to be exceeded to make it worthwhile to offer the App. Remember Weather Flow? Weather Flow app removed from Windows Phone Store [Update] | Windows Central

If an App just has to connect to a Google service in order to function, expect the workarounds to be more of a PITA than a developer thinks it is worth. I would imagine Google would block that type of access pretty quickly when it starts cropping up.