07-23-2015 02:39 PM
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  1. rhapdog's Avatar
    BUT, if MS has the usual **** pour cycle of marketing, nobody outside of this web site will know W10 on phones can double as a computer.
    Yeah, and Google will advertise, "Yeah, but you can hook up a keyboard to Android. Always been able to. It's no different." And everyone will believe and follow.

    It's going to take some serious marketing by Microsoft. It's a game changer for sure, IF Microsoft is up to the challenge of changing the game. They CAN do it, but we'll have to wait and see IF they do it.
    07-13-2015 02:32 PM
  2. mary beth hale's Avatar
    Yes , it's all an exercise in futility if MS does not pour on the marketing. Hopefully they will.
    07-13-2015 06:45 PM
  3. Dr_8820's Avatar
    ...they haven't done it since 2010...(marketing)

    I don't want to be ants at a picnic, but we know what's going to happen....flagship on AT&T buried in the store with associates pushing Android or iPhone, mid or low range on everyone else with support dropped because of low sales...



    *am I allowed to speak again 😁

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk
    RumoredNow and aximtreo like this.
    07-13-2015 07:45 PM
  4. rhapdog's Avatar
    MS definitely needs to pony up the money and spend some serious bucks on marketing for this launch. Between August 1, 2015 and the end of the year the airwaves need to be saturated with all things Microsoft and Windows 10 with all the devices it can do, and what those devices are capable of. Television, Radio, Print, Bus Benches, Billboards, it needs to be everywhere you look so that people will know there has been changes at Microsoft.

    If they were to saturate with advertising like that, and do it right, then people will be walking into the carriers asking for the phones to such a degree that the carriers will start begging Microsoft for more. Let's face it, for over 50% of the population, it's not about the apps. Most get by with the apps that come on the phone. The real problem is that no one knows it is a viable alternative because of all the negative speak on it. Marketing can turn it around. It worked magic for Apple in the past, and it can work magic for Microsoft by showing the world what they have accomplished and what they truly have to offer. They have to get the word out. Microsoft is cool again, but it does no good unless people know it.

    You can't make money without spending money.
    07-13-2015 08:40 PM
  5. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ^^^ Right. And a Happy Meal Toy as well.
    07-13-2015 09:34 PM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    I'm still of the opinion that no amount of marketing is going to overcome the app ecosystem shortage. If W10M turns out to be everything it's purported to be, the OS itself should be good competition for the incumbents. But the apps, that's going to be a problem for awhile yet. Even if the universal app system works, it won't be overnight. What happens in the meantime? How many chances will customers give WP?

    I always did think that Microsoft was wise to not aggressively market WP. It had issues with both the OS and the ecosystem. So far it has not been anywhere near ready to take on the big boys, and Microsoft knows it. Marketing would have been futile. I say give it a year or so after W10 is out, and then pull out the marketing cannons! Being too aggressive too soon could do more harm than good.
    Laura Knotek, a5cent and aximtreo like this.
    07-13-2015 09:50 PM
  7. Dr_8820's Avatar
    ...but W10 is now the new operating system, hasn't Microsoft taken this approach since WP7?

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk
    07-13-2015 10:24 PM
  8. mary beth hale's Avatar
    Guess I'm hoping against hope that if MS is aggressive then the carriers may follow suit. Back to the **** carriers again. They are still in the equation at this point,unfortunately.
    07-13-2015 10:32 PM
  9. RumoredNow's Avatar
    At this point it's a fringe OS with a fringe audience.

    I really don't see how removing US carriers does tremendous and unrecoverable damage. I think it would be liberating. Let BYOD be the mantra. Flood the airwaves and print with slogans like, "Your carrier doesn't want you to have this phone" and show the Cityman; "The carriers can't handle this device so we are bringing it direct to you" and show Talkman. When the budget phones come out next spring they need to hype "Factory Unlocked for the people" and "Cut out the middleman."

    If you have to be on carriers, insist the phones are unlocked and advertise that they are. "A truly mobile phone."

    They have to break the mold here. "A two year contract? That's how your grandmother buys her flip phone."
    07-14-2015 12:11 AM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    At this point it's a fringe OS with a fringe audience.

    I really don't see how removing US carriers does tremendous and unrecoverable damage. I think it would be liberating. Let BYOD be the mantra. Flood the airwaves and print with slogans like, "Your carrier doesn't want you to have this phone" and show the Cityman; "The carriers can't handle this device so we are bringing it direct to you" and show Talkman. When the budget phones come out next spring they need to hype "Factory Unlocked for the people" and "Cut out the middleman."

    If you have to be on carriers, insist the phones are unlocked and advertise that they are. "A truly mobile phone."

    They have to break the mold here. "A two year contract? That's how your grandmother buys her flip phone."
    I don't see why this wouldn't work if there were proper marketing. OnePlus and ASUS are doing this with their Androids. Why couldn't Microsoft do this with Windows 10 Mobile?

    On that note, what about ASUS doing a Windows 10 Mobile ZenFone? ASUS makes a lot of great PCs, from budget to high-end. Maybe they'd be a supporter of Windows 10 Mobile and make unlocked Windows 10 Mobile phones.
    07-14-2015 12:26 AM
  11. rhapdog's Avatar
    I'm still of the opinion that no amount of marketing is going to overcome the app ecosystem shortage
    Think about it this way, tgp. If marketing can get a percentage of people on Android to switch, a percentage of those people to whom apps don't really matter (and there are many), then WP could easily overtake iPhone. If Windows Phone picked up 10% from other ecosystems from those people, there would be enough people on the WP ecosystem that suddenly app developers wouldn't want to miss out on it. That's all it would take. THIS is how the marketing can overcome it.

    Plus, if MS markets it where, "Download your app for either your PC, tablet, phone, Xbox, or HoloLens, etc., and you'll own it for all the rest of those devices. Buy it once, own it on up to five of your devices." This is going to make the app ecosystem more attractive, if people know they can go from their phone to their PC with the same app synchronized via the cloud. Why? For example, I for one would rather enter 50 new contacts in the People app on my laptop instead of my phone. I would rather create my grocery list on my laptop where I can type faster than on my phone, then use the phone to do the shopping. That's just a couple of examples for a regular consumer. Enterprise will even be more appealing.

    Yeah, marketing can pick up market share, and developers will follow that market share.

    The plus? Carriers will also follow the market share, and will start clamoring to let Microsoft allow them to sell the phones again under Microsoft's terms. iPhone has a relatively small market share compared to Android devices, but Carriers allow that from Apple. Put Microsoft in the same range, and they will be able to make a better bargain with carriers as well. Especially when carriers see it's the only way they'll be allowed to carry the product.

    They have to break the mold here. "A two year contract? That's how your grandmother buys her flip phone."
    Dude, that's EXACTLY what they should market! Gotta love it.
    tgp, RumoredNow and Ed Boland like this.
    07-14-2015 05:26 AM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    Plus, if MS markets it where, "Download your app for either your PC, tablet, phone, Xbox, or HoloLens, etc., and you'll own it for all the rest of those devices. Buy it once, own it on up to five of your devices."
    Yup! You just said exactly what I did, but in different words: "give it a year or so after W10 is out, and then pull out the marketing cannons!" Downloading an app for any of the devices is a reality, but not for some time yet. That's why I say to give it a year.

    They have to break the mold here. "A two year contract? That's how your grandmother buys her flip phone."
    Two year contracts, while expensive, are not all bad! For one thing, it's automatic financing for an expensive phone. Why do you think iPhones sell so well in the US? It costs, but then we finance $250,000 properties and then end up paying $400,000 by the time the mortgage is paid off, and think nothing of it. Different numbers, but same principal.

    If the incoming 940/XL is really going to be more expensive than the iPhone, good luck selling it without two year contracts, or some other financing scheme.
    07-14-2015 07:28 AM
  13. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Carriers will also follow the market share, and will start clamoring to let Microsoft allow them to sell the phones again under Microsoft's terms. iPhone has a relatively small market share compared to Android devices, but Carriers allow that from Apple. Put Microsoft in the same range, and they will be able to make a better bargain with carriers as well. Especially when carriers see it's the only way they'll be allowed to carry the product.
    Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't make all the Windows Phones and has a goal of manufacturing a smaller and smaller percent of all Windows phones. So that won't work unless all the Windows Phone OEMs play the same hardball. Anyone who could make that happen would be off somewhere else making a lot more money herding kittens.
    07-14-2015 07:54 AM
  14. aximtreo's Avatar
    There is still one word that sort of stays in the mist when it comes to MS. Credibility . This was something MS never had a problem with back in the early days. Until MS can gain credibility with the public, the OEM's and the developers, not much will change.

    Yes, I know credibility is a nebulous word and hard to put a finger on. Each of us will have a different take on the meaning.

    MS doesn't have two years for WP 10 to catch on. They have to make a positive splash from today on. Samsung is about to introduce the Note 5. They are constantly letting info leak about what it is and what it will do. Those Android people are already salivating over this new phone. Guess what, it's rumored to be fixed memory, no SD card and no removable battery. Does that matter; damn right. I have the Note 4 and the one thing I like is the ability to add these two items.

    Now, MS should quit ******* around with floating specs out there to see what the public thinks. If, and it's a big if, MS has one, two, three high end phones coming; say so. You don't have to have all three ready at the same time. Introduce WP 10 in August and show it one the first phone built to take advantage of the OS. Make a statement that they will introduce it now for shipment in two weeks; before School starts for most in early September. Now you can show mom and dad that not only does junior need a Win 10 tablet but he needs a WP with continuity between the two now.

    I'm rambling but I think most can see where I'm going. Be aggressive, make a splash and back it up.
    07-14-2015 07:56 AM
  15. rhapdog's Avatar
    There is still one word that sort of stays in the mist when it comes to MS. Credibility . This was something MS never had a problem with back in the early days. Until MS can gain credibility with the public, the OEM's and the developers, not much will change.
    The proper marketing can get the credibility back. Look at American Politics. Why do some of those bozos get voted into office? They have a good "marketing" campaign.
    07-14-2015 08:10 AM
  16. aximtreo's Avatar
    The proper marketing can get the credibility back. Look at American Politics. Why do some of those bozos get voted into office? They have a good "marketing" campaign.
    Yes, but they still don't have credibility. How many politicians can you name that you feel has credibility. Not disagreeing with you, just wanting to distinguish the difference between marketing and credibility.
    Laura Knotek and Dr_8820 like this.
    07-14-2015 08:15 AM
  17. mjperry51's Avatar
    Yes, but they still don't have credibility. How many politicians can you name that you feel has credibility. Not disagreeing with you, just wanting to distinguish the difference between marketing and credibility.
    Perception is reality. . .
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-14-2015 08:47 AM
  18. Kavu2's Avatar
    Perception is reality. . .
    Perception is 'sizzle'. Apple doesn't sell the steak, they sell the 'sizzle'. 'Sizzle' is a fleeting ephemeral image which dissipates quickly. That's what drives the iPhone 6 mo upgrade cycle.

    Make no mistake, Apple has been VERY successful selling the sizzle. That doesn't mean that 'sizzle' equates to substance let alone quality, innovation, practicality or even beauty. And the ability to successfully sell 'sizzle' doesn't equate to the credibility of either the product...or the manufacturer.

    That said, there's no law that says that along with the 'sizzle', comes a steak that surprises you with quality and taste you never imagined from the advertising sell. Apple is not currently delivering that on their plate. But then 'sizzle' is obfuscating their product quite nicely...as is their intention.
    07-14-2015 12:21 PM
  19. rhapdog's Avatar
    Perception is 'sizzle'. Apple doesn't sell the steak, they sell the 'sizzle'. 'Sizzle' is a fleeting ephemeral image which dissipates quickly. That's what drives the iPhone 6 mo upgrade cycle.

    Make no mistake, Apple has been VERY successful selling the sizzle. That doesn't mean that 'sizzle' equates to substance let alone quality, innovation, practicality or even beauty. And the ability to successfully sell 'sizzle' doesn't equate to the credibility of either the product...or the manufacturer.

    That said, there's no law that says that along with the 'sizzle', comes a steak that surprises you with quality and taste you never imagined from the advertising sell. Apple is not currently delivering that on their plate. But then 'sizzle' is obfuscating their product quite nicely...as is their intention.
    Yeah, then Microsoft needs to sell the sizzle, because they've got the tastiest steak coming. Confirmed from Nadella that the Surface Phone, Intel powered Windows 10 Mobile is coming in 2016, and it's gonna run x86 apps, baby!

    Put that baby on the market and most people will never care about the Google App store again. How many programs/apps are available for x86? Yeah, I thought so. BAM!
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-14-2015 01:02 PM
  20. mjperry51's Avatar
    Perception is 'sizzle'. Apple doesn't sell the steak, they sell the 'sizzle'. 'Sizzle' is a fleeting ephemeral image which dissipates quickly. That's what drives the iPhone 6 mo upgrade cycle.

    Make no mistake, Apple has been VERY successful selling the sizzle. That doesn't mean that 'sizzle' equates to substance let alone quality, innovation, practicality or even beauty. And the ability to successfully sell 'sizzle' doesn't equate to the credibility of either the product...or the manufacturer.

    That said, there's no law that says that along with the 'sizzle', comes a steak that surprises you with quality and taste you never imagined from the advertising sell. Apple is not currently delivering that on their plate. But then 'sizzle' is obfuscating their product quite nicely...as is their intention.
    Perhaps. however that is not an absolute.
    07-14-2015 01:24 PM
  21. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Perception is 'sizzle'. Apple doesn't sell the steak, they sell the 'sizzle'. 'Sizzle' is a fleeting ephemeral image which dissipates quickly. That's what drives the iPhone 6 mo upgrade cycle.

    Make no mistake, Apple has been VERY successful selling the sizzle. That doesn't mean that 'sizzle' equates to substance let alone quality, innovation, practicality or even beauty. And the ability to successfully sell 'sizzle' doesn't equate to the credibility of either the product...or the manufacturer.

    That said, there's no law that says that along with the 'sizzle', comes a steak that surprises you with quality and taste you never imagined from the advertising sell. Apple is not currently delivering that on their plate. But then 'sizzle' is obfuscating their product quite nicely...as is their intention.

    won-internet.jpg
    07-14-2015 02:11 PM
  22. Kavu2's Avatar
    Re> RumoredNow
    "Microsoft should terminate all the carrier shenanigans and sell Unlocked phones directly to those who are aware of what they want"
    From your mouth to God's Microsoft's ear....

    Via WinBeta, Kevin Turner MS COO keynote#2 talk at WPC( Worldwide Partner Conference)
    Microsoft is restructuring to grow Windows Phone business profitably, says Kevin Turner

    text of interest...(emphasis mine)
    --------------------------------------
    "We're changing our manufacturing processes, we're modernizing those and making them contemporary, we're changing some of our go-to-markets, and using multi-tiered distribution. We are right sizing the organization, and we are hard at work at what's the next big wave of innovation relative to that size of device that we need to be working on and geared towards."
    ---------------------------------------

    Sounds to me like an end-run of the carriers if the carriers still insist on back-of-store showcasing....or not stocking at all.
    07-15-2015 01:20 PM
  23. syspry's Avatar
    If Microsoft doesn't sell the phones in the stores where people wants to buy them, sales will be insignificant.
    This. People buy their phones in the same stores iPhone and Android phones are sold. End of story.
    07-16-2015 07:19 PM
  24. rhapdog's Avatar
    This. People buy their phones in the same stores iPhone and Android phones are sold. End of story.
    I've seen people buy phones at Family Dollar, Kroger, and other places that don't sell iPhones, so that's really not the "end of story."
    07-16-2015 08:36 PM
  25. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    This. People buy their phones in the same stores iPhone and Android phones are sold. End of story.
    Exactly. That's why Android failed completely: You couldn't buy them at the Apple Store.
    07-17-2015 10:46 AM
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