07-23-2015 02:39 PM
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  1. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I've not bought a phone for myself out of a carrier store since 2005. I've had a lot of phones in the last ten years many of them BNIB.

    The carriers want you to believe they have all the phones that will ever be any good. My experience is that I get better hardware by going elsewhere.

    American's are so pitifully conditioned to the US carrier shell game.

    Wake Up Already!!!!

    07-17-2015 05:14 PM
  2. worldspy99's Avatar
    I've not bought a phone for myself out of a carrier store since 2005. I've had a lot of phones in the last ten years many of them BNIB.

    The carriers want you to believe they have all the phones that will ever be any good. My experience is that I get better hardware by going elsewhere.

    American's are so pitifully conditioned to the US carrier shell game.

    Wake Up Already!!!!

    [video]https://youtu.be/5ZfQiDrs8bc[/url]
    Same here, haven't bought a phone from a carrier since 2004:-)
    07-17-2015 06:48 PM
  3. mary beth hale's Avatar
    I've not bought a phone for myself out of a carrier store since 2005. I've had a lot of phones in the last ten years many of them BNIB.

    The carriers want you to believe they have all the phones that will ever be any good. My experience is that I get better hardware by going elsewhere.

    American's are so pitifully conditioned to the US carrier shell game.

    Wake Up Already!!!!

    [video]https://youtu.be/5ZfQiDrs8bc[/url]
    I always want to cheer when you jump on this stuff. People need to get POUNDED with the concept that "carrier controlled" is neither beneficial nor necessary! Been doing my part for years by refusing carrier/contract imprisonment. Please everyone, join me, won't you? And again, thanks for starting this thread.
    07-17-2015 08:02 PM
  4. mark233's Avatar
    07-17-2015 08:48 PM
  5. rhapdog's Avatar
    I bought a phone from the carrier back in 2005. I paid full price at the time, which made it expensive, but I didn't like the conditions on the contract and how much it would have cost me by having a contract.

    Still the only one I've ever gotten from the carrier. I like choice. Carriers don't generally give a lot of choice, just a lot of contract obligations that I don't want to be tied to.
    07-18-2015 12:34 PM
  6. Big Papa Smurf's Avatar
    Due to the fear that I may never reach the nd.. I just wanted to say a couple things:
    Some of you guys crack me up.. Like the post about continuum...
    Also, before I purchased my 928 I was interested in getting a Nexus on VZW. Problem is, they actually blocked the phone from operating on their network. What's to stop them from doing this to WP that CAN work on CDMA, but Verizon simply says no and blocks them?
    I agree WP should be better marketed and available on all carriers, but if people simply don't care to switch from iPhone/Android then you can't make them. I know I've tried for the last year to get my family to switch. Even showed them Cortana. To which I was told"So its like Siri?"
    You can market the product, you can make it available anywhere for anyone, but some people simply will not switch. Change is scary.
    I'm sure there's more I wanna say but I only made it to page 6... I feel when I get home it will be up to 20 so I'll have to read when I'm home...
    07-18-2015 01:26 PM
  7. RumoredNow's Avatar
    What's to stop them from doing this to WP that CAN work on CDMA, but Verizon simply says no and blocks them?
    They do that already... They always have. They think they are Gandalf standing on the bridge deep in Moria, defying the Balrog... "You shall not PASS!!!!!"

    Verizon and Sprint don't block phones. They just have it set so it is impossible to activate your phone unless your MEID is in their database and the only way that happens is when they bulk purchase from OEMs. The only time they bulk purchase from OEMs is after a supplicant kisses the ring and swears eternal allegiance to Vzw and affirms that Vzw's needs are more important to the OEM than anything the end user could need. Then the OEM has to sacrifice their first born SD card slot to appease Vzw's anger.

    If it means a Vzw customer can't have a phone, I gleefully and willfully push you under the bus.

    Seriously. I don't care how bad your carrier gimps you. That is between you and your carrier. Leave me and Microsoft out of it.

    The carrier created their own mess. YOU don't have to lie in it.
    07-18-2015 02:19 PM
  8. rhapdog's Avatar
    Verizon and Sprint don't block phones. They just have it set so it is impossible to activate your phone unless your MEID is in their database and the only way that happens is when they bulk purchase from OEMs.
    AT&T had the iPhone in 2007. Sprint and Verizon didn't get it until 2011. It's not because Apple didn't want them to have it. They were slow to want it. By 2011, these 2 companies decided they couldn't continue to keep their customers without it, which is the ONLY reason they relented and allow Apple to set the terms.

    Apple refused to kiss Verizon's ring, so to speak, so it took from 2007 to 2011 to get the phone in their stores. Did Apple care? NO! Should Microsoft care? NO! Wait a few years and Verizon and Sprint and others will be begging Microsoft to get in on what will be the future of Windows Mobile.
    07-18-2015 02:54 PM
  9. mary beth hale's Avatar
    I agree WP should be better marketed and available on all carriers, but if people simply don't care to switch from iPhone/Android then you can't make them. I know I've tried for the last year to get my family to switch. Even showed them Cortana. To which I was told"So its like Siri?"
    You can market the product, you can make it available anywhere for anyone, but some people simply will not switch. Change is scary.
    For me, this carrier/contract issue has little to do with trying to move people to Windows Phone,,, I know my preference but I have no interest in converting anyone else, as I am a bit of an agnostic when it comes to any OS. I simply think that the carrier/contract system assigns the role of "sucker" to the consumer and that's not acceptable.
    07-18-2015 06:23 PM
  10. Big Papa Smurf's Avatar
    Thanks rumored. As usual you provided a good laugh.
    Block the MEID. That's what I was looking for...
    Also, was the last bit towards me?
    07-18-2015 06:59 PM
  11. Big Papa Smurf's Avatar
    I simply think that the carrier/contract system assigns the role of "sucker" to the consumer and that's not acceptable.
    It isn't. But even when you show people on paper how they pay more for less in the long run, its so common now that they refuse to believe it.
    mary beth hale likes this.
    07-18-2015 07:01 PM
  12. mary beth hale's Avatar
    It isn't. But even when you show people on paper how they pay more for less in the long run, its so common now that they refuse to believe it.
    You're right about that. It's almost delusional thinking.
    RumoredNow and aximtreo like this.
    07-18-2015 07:05 PM
  13. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Also, was the last bit towards me?
    Not you specifically... The Generic "You" being any consumer not willing to shop for the best possible deal for themselves. So many users state they "cannot" change carrier for some reason or another.

    We all have our justifications for what we do, but last I checked carriers are not fiefdoms and nobody need ask his lordship's permission to buy a phone. They have what they have and you can buy from them. If you don't like what they have and they won't honor BYOD, then certainly you may shop carriers at any time...

    Having the phone I want and swapping phones when I want is a major criteria in choosing a carrier for me. It is not for some and the carrier store is where they get their gear.

    Me choosing any phone I like hinders no one else. A carrier choosing what phone can ride on their rails hinders many daily. Why those users put up with that makes ZERO sense to me with my libertarian device usage pattern. I find the Verizon and Sprint model unacceptable.
    mark233, PepperdotNet, tgp and 2 others like this.
    07-18-2015 07:49 PM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    Having the phone I want and swapping phones when I want is a major criteria in choosing a carrier for me. It is not for some and the carrier store is where they get their gear.
    I think you would be in the minority here. Most people just like to use the carrier store. For the vast majority of people, an unlocked phone adds $0 value. They have no desire to swap phones, or even take it to another carrier. They walk out of a store with an activated phone, the one they intend to use for the next 2 years. If they have a problem in the meantime, they go back into the store where it is taken care of.

    Another thing that we here on the forums look at as ultra important is updates. However, updates are not important to most people. In fact, in my experience I've seen plenty of people whose phones had system updates, as well as app updates, waiting to be installed, but they don't do it. The same also applies to PCs. To them it is just a hassle. Some things might change and/or not work correctly. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

    I feel the same as you in that I prefer unlocked phones where I can do as I please, including jumping carriers. But at the same time we need to be realistic about it. Most users do not even wish to do research, order a phone online, order a SIM card online, and put the two together and hope they work. What about the APN tweaks that are sometimes needed to get MMS working or something like that? Who wants to mess with that (besides us)?

    Yes, going through the carriers 100% is not the cheapest, but it is the most convenient, and for the most part the most hassle free.
    libra89, Laura Knotek and aximtreo like this.
    07-18-2015 10:39 PM
  15. libra89's Avatar
    I think you would be in the minority here. Most people just like to use the carrier store. For the vast majority of people, an unlocked phone adds $0 value. They have no desire to swap phones, or even take it to another carrier. They walk out of a store with an activated phone, the one they intend to use for the next 2 years. If they have a problem in the meantime, they go back into the store where it is taken care of.

    Another thing that we here on the forums look at as ultra important is updates. However, updates are not important to most people. In fact, in my experience I've seen plenty of people whose phones had system updates, as well as app updates, waiting to be installed, but they don't do it. The same also applies to PCs. To them it is just a hassle. Some things might change and/or not work correctly. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

    I feel the same as you in that I prefer unlocked phones where I can do as I please, including jumping carriers. But at the same time we need to be realistic about it. Most users do not even wish to do research, order a phone online, order a SIM card online, and put the two together and hope they work. What about the APN tweaks that are sometimes needed to get MMS working or something like that? Who wants to mess with that (besides us)?

    Yes, going through the carriers 100% is not the cheapest, but it is the most convenient, and for the most part the most hassle free.
    I completely agree. I just wanted to add to your point about having issues with the phone and being able to go to the carrier. I think that point has been easily forgotten here.

    A good example of this situation is what happened with my father's phone semi-recently. He got this basic phone from a carrier a few years back and it was acting up. It was to the point where he had to call the carrier (using another phone because that one wasn't working right for calls). It was a very long phone call, but in the end, the issue was fixed. Someone like my father would get an unlocked phone, have something go wrong with it and then not know what to do? That sounds like an idea that isn't going to work out well.

    I think most of the people I know just decide to go to the carrier to get another phone if their phone can't be saved at all, my dad included.
    Laura Knotek and aximtreo like this.
    07-18-2015 11:12 PM
  16. RumoredNow's Avatar
    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
    The way carriers have been doing business IS broken so far as it serves Microsoft. Any exposure gained has been lost several times over by the way the OS gets denigrated by the carrier personnel and the lack of interest in pushing the product. I agree the majority of phone users follow the carrier model. That is not the point here. The point is the carrier model is not working. It fails time and again to advance the OS.

    The carrier horse refuses to pull the Microsoft cart. Microsoft needs a new horse to pull it's cart to market.
    07-18-2015 11:33 PM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    The way carriers have been doing business IS broken so far as it serves Microsoft. Any exposure gained has been lost several times over by the way the OS gets denigrated by the carrier personnel and the lack of interest in pushing the product. I agree the majority of phone users follow the carrier model. That is not the point here. The point is the carrier model is not working. It fails time and again to advance the OS.

    The carrier horse refuses to pull the Microsoft cart. Microsoft needs a new horse to pull it's cart to market.
    WP is not taking the world by storm anyway. Its market share is higher in the US than it is worldwide. It's not just the carriers doing it. There's something else in play here.
    aximtreo likes this.
    07-19-2015 06:23 AM
  18. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I was in Italy last fall for 32 days. I went to 4 major cities and one resort area.

    Windows Phone is treated as an equal to iOS and Android in the carrier stores over there. Last quarter in Italy Windows Phone had 14.4% market share. http://forums.windowscentral.com/mic...ml#post3149718

    The way carriers treat the OS in the United States IS impacting sales. It certainly is not the only factor. But there is a major correlation at work here.
    07-19-2015 12:03 PM
  19. Visa Declined's Avatar
    While I agree with most of what is being discussed here, I have to say that I enjoy being able to walk into a carrier store, and walk out 15 mins later with an $800+ dollar phone with no money down. I'm already paying them $70 dollars a month for an unlimited data plan, so tacking on another $20 bucks monthly for a bleeding edge, high end phone feels like a no brainer.

    I could have paid cash up front and bought my phone unlocked, and I do have phones that I've purchased that way, but on high-ticket items I'd rather pay them out through the carrier.
    libra89 likes this.
    07-19-2015 06:17 PM
  20. rhapdog's Avatar
    It isn't. But even when you show people on paper how they pay more for less in the long run, its so common now that they refuse to believe it.
    Oh, no, they actually do believe it. It's like when you tell a smoker that smoking causes cancer. They believe it, but just don't care enough to stop smoking. They like what they get when they are smoking. The nicotine is addictive.

    Being able to walk in to a carrier and walk out with little or no money down over comes having to pay way too much for most people.

    While I agree with most of what is being discussed here, I have to say that I enjoy being able to walk into a carrier store, and walk out 15 mins later with an $800+ dollar phone with no money down. I'm already paying them $70 dollars a month for an unlimited data plan, so tacking on another $20 bucks monthly for a bleeding edge, high end phone feels like a no brainer.

    I could have paid cash up front and bought my phone unlocked, and I do have phones that I've purchased that way, but on high-ticket items I'd rather pay them out through the carrier.
    Thank you for proving my point.

    I suppose if I absolutely had to have the latest, greatest hardware, I'd probably be inclined to do the same. However, as smooth as WP runs on low end hardware, I can easily justify walking into Walmart and paying $48.84 for a Lumia 635 GoPhone or $79.84 for the Lumia 640 LTE GoPhone. Pop in my AT&T SIM and I'm good to go.

    I guess I'm just more of the "I'll be content with what I have because I don't need all that extra stuff" kind of guy. I'm rare, though, and my wife is always telling me she's glad she found me. ;)
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-19-2015 09:42 PM
  21. Visa Declined's Avatar

    I suppose if I absolutely had to have the latest, greatest hardware, I'd probably be inclined to do the same. However, as smooth as WP runs on low end hardware, I can easily justify walking into Walmart and paying $48.84 for a Lumia 635 GoPhone or $79.84 for the Lumia 640 LTE GoPhone. Pop in my AT&T SIM and I'm good to go.
    I couldn't spend as much time as you and I do hanging out on mobile phone and tech sites, if all I was interested in was low end phones.

    There isn't a person on this site that wouldn't want one of the new high end Lumia's coming out. Sometimes people have to be content with what they have because of money constraints, and I understand that, but we're all phone enthusiasts here, we all love the hot new devices. Carriers make it easy for people to get those devices, and I'm glad they do.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    07-19-2015 11:43 PM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    There isn't a person on this site that wouldn't want one of the new high end Lumia's coming out.
    I've already decided I'm taking a pass. My Lumia 1520 is still going to be good when Win 10 Mo hits. I'm gonna wait and see what's further down the road.

    But even if I wanted one... Purchased one... It would not be through a carrier shop on terms. My carrier doesn't even have a store.
    07-19-2015 11:52 PM
  23. rhapdog's Avatar
    I couldn't spend as much time as you and I do hanging out on mobile phone and tech sites, if all I was interested in was low end phones.

    There isn't a person on this site that wouldn't want one of the new high end Lumia's coming out. Sometimes people have to be content with what they have because of money constraints, and I understand that, but we're all phone enthusiasts here, we all love the hot new devices. Carriers make it easy for people to get those devices, and I'm glad they do.
    I'm interested in a lot more than just low end phones. I love technology. I love to discuss it with others. I love to see the direction the tech industry is heading, where it has been, and I love to forecast where it is going.

    The 635 and 640 are quite capable devices, and run smooth as butter running Windows Phone. I have a bit of trouble in my mind justifying spending more on the high end when I have no actual need for it. I can't justify a front facing camera, as I don't do video Skype, nor do I have anyone I would do it with. I also don't do selfies, period. I can't justify higher end cameras, because I find the camera on the 635 does everything I need. I just need something to take a quick pic with my family once in a while. The 5MP on the 635 is a solid camera, and actually takes better pictures than the 10MP stand-alone digital camera my wife was using. I don't play games, and every app I need works just fine on 512MB. I also have trouble handling a phone as large as a 5" or larger. My 635 seems to be about as big as I can handle effectively.

    I'm retired. Retired in my mid-40s just 6 years ago. I'm not content with what I have because of money constraints, I'm content with what I have because I've learned the secret of how to be happy in life. A large part of that is to be content with whatever I have, whether it be much or little. It's not about money constraints for me. However, a lot more people sure would be better off by learning to restrain themselves when it comes to money. Seeing so many people in debt that still believe they need to spend more saddens me. I didn't get to the point of being able to retire young because I was wasteful with what I had. I also have the understanding that I have to be cautious with what I have. Even the richest of people have been brought low by a sudden downturn in an economy or market. Why shouldn't I be making sure that every dime I spend counts for something? If I'm not going to use the features, I'm not going to pay for them. I'm also not going to pay triple to get that last 15% performance increase that many people will do.

    Right now, I'd love to have one of the Intel flagship phones. However, #1, I'll have to wait until they arrive. #2, I'll wait and see how they perform and what new they will offer. #3, I'll wait until I need to replace both my phone and my laptop, then I'll get one device instead of two and save money. Why? Because I can, and I can feel good about making wise decisions.
    07-20-2015 10:36 AM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I'm interested in a lot more than just low end phones. I love technology. I love to discuss it with others. I love to see the direction the tech industry is heading, where it has been, and I love to forecast where it is going.

    The 635 and 640 are quite capable devices, and run smooth as butter running Windows Phone. I have a bit of trouble in my mind justifying spending more on the high end when I have no actual need for it. I can't justify a front facing camera, as I don't do video Skype, nor do I have anyone I would do it with. I also don't do selfies, period. I can't justify higher end cameras, because I find the camera on the 635 does everything I need. I just need something to take a quick pic with my family once in a while. The 5MP on the 635 is a solid camera, and actually takes better pictures than the 10MP stand-alone digital camera my wife was using. I don't play games, and every app I need works just fine on 512MB. I also have trouble handling a phone as large as a 5" or larger. My 635 seems to be about as big as I can handle effectively.

    I'm retired. Retired in my mid-40s just 6 years ago. I'm not content with what I have because of money constraints, I'm content with what I have because I've learned the secret of how to be happy in life. A large part of that is to be content with whatever I have, whether it be much or little. It's not about money constraints for me. However, a lot more people sure would be better off by learning to restrain themselves when it comes to money. Seeing so many people in debt that still believe they need to spend more saddens me. I didn't get to the point of being able to retire young because I was wasteful with what I had. I also have the understanding that I have to be cautious with what I have. Even the richest of people have been brought low by a sudden downturn in an economy or market. Why shouldn't I be making sure that every dime I spend counts for something? If I'm not going to use the features, I'm not going to pay for them. I'm also not going to pay triple to get that last 15% performance increase that many people will do.

    Right now, I'd love to have one of the Intel flagship phones. However, #1, I'll have to wait until they arrive. #2, I'll wait and see how they perform and what new they will offer. #3, I'll wait until I need to replace both my phone and my laptop, then I'll get one device instead of two and save money. Why? Because I can, and I can feel good about making wise decisions.
    Ah....the voice of reason. I too enjoy tech and like to discuss it as most of us here. I hate debt and swore off credit cards and car payments a few years ago. I didn't retire but I enjoy my job a little more knowing that I can get by without worrying about the next paycheck being enough to cover the bills. I understand the carrier model but I don't subscribe to it.

    As for your comment about cigarettes, I can vouch for the addictive properties. I've been smoking for over 37 years and I know for a fact that the tobacco companies are putting something in the cigs. I had a heart attack at 46 and the abstinence only lasted 2 weeks. I suffered horrible physical withdrawal symptoms that I never felt when I quit drinking. I can enjoy a glass of Bourbon or Brandy every so often and not look at a bottle for months.

    I wish I had the same willpower when I'm on eBay or Amazon looking at phones or tablets.

    Sent from my LG G3 via Tapatalk
    07-22-2015 08:28 PM
  25. rhapdog's Avatar
    As for your comment about cigarettes, I can vouch for the addictive properties. I've been smoking for over 37 years and I know for a fact that the tobacco companies are putting something in the cigs.
    You with cigarettes, me with chocolate. I think the chocolate companies do the same thing. I can't pass a chocolate bar without it calling my name. Especially dark chocolate. Chocolate pie is the best.

    I've considered maybe going back to work when my girls are old enough. My uncle is still working and he's approaching 80. He's a consultant now, but IBM keeps calling him for help on a regular basis. Seems they can't get along without him. That man is sharper with tech than the young people growing up with it by a long shot. A rarity, I know.

    Phones are addictive for many. They were a great temptation to me for a while, and it has taken a lot to overcome that. I'll start struggling again when the Intel Windows phones hit, I'm sure, but I'll overcome. My wife and I are good at keeping each other in check on our weaknesses, in a loving way, of course. ;)
    fatclue_98, tgp, a5cent and 3 others like this.
    07-22-2015 09:27 PM
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