11-06-2015 09:49 AM
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  1. 7a2eer's Avatar
    I recommend you guys check out the differences between CISC and RISC. There is good reason why Intel is not gaining traction on mobile phones. More importantly you should study Windows Runtime.
    Clearly there must be something wrong if WP fans think the future of WP is running desktop (Win32) applications.

    Summary: Intel ISA is a mess, phones need to be small/fast/efficient, Intel is not the leader in performance or efficiency in mobile (and will likely never be), there needs to be applications designed for phones (with a more limited API).

    EDIT: I do not mind having Intel on a phone, or being able to run X86/Win32 applications. That said I do not think the future of a mobile OS should rely on being compliant with desktop OS applications. Phones only need an extended subset of Win32...

    These Lumia phones are Nokia phones. I think they will really up their game when they launch a surface phone that is intel based and can run desktop apps.
    Wall of text crits you for 9999. You die

    Anyways... Continuum and the bridge projects are where Microsoft sees Windows 10 Mobile going. They know they aren't going to be able to compete in the US market with their current ecosystem so they're going above and beyond to basically create a new one. Their current offerings aren't even that bad if you consider the world as a whole and not just the US market.

    At this current point in time, Microsoft is actually on the rise as a whole and while the situation with the 950s is kind of disappointing in regards to carrier support, this is definitely just phase one of their overall strategy.

    In a year or two, a developer will be able to take an existing IOS or Android app and port it over with very little work to not only Windows 10 mobile, but also Windows 10 desktop, Xbox and potentially Hololens. The ecosystem will catch up and distinguish itself once x86 phones come out.

    See Dan's post on the front page.
    I completely agree, wide adoption in the US of any Windows Mobile device will not occur until Islandwood/Astoria are completed. The x86 phones will just push it into a completely new category. People already think Continuum is pretty cool. Once Win32 apps get ported over it opens an entire new realm of possibilities.
    It doesn't need to be as powerful as a dedicated tablet, just need to be powerful enough to simple day to day task. While I don't know ithe Surface Phone is a real thing, just think about the size of the Intel Compute Stick. If Microsoft can get with Intel and truly optimize an Atom CPU (while looking elsewhere for the GPU) for maximum performance and battery life with a lite weight version of Windows 10 (think IOT but with the mobile GUI), coupled with 4GB of RAM, we might have a plan.
    I was just throwing the idea out there. I'm one of the few who is not and can not be productive on a phone.

    Also, I'm not talking about using x86 programs on a phone, but having extra "umph" for the UWP apps, that will probably use more resources as the apps become more diversified. when docked.

    But it's all about how each person use their devices. For what I do, a phone, tablet, or consumer laptop will not work for me.
    I think it will be really in the game when he was launched on the mobile Intel-based and can run computer applications.
    10-31-2015 10:17 AM
  2. strength888's Avatar
    It's all about poor marketing and bad business decisions overall. The Lumia devices are better than the competition, the OS is better, it is a fact. The 950 will be a disaster simply because they're targeting a market they have no hope of ever entering, the flagship market. 90 % of these customers are paying for a brand, not a product. You won't attract them with a non-existent market share.
    10-31-2015 11:11 AM
  3. Steve Adams's Avatar
    Well this is the sort of technical innovation that really makes Microsoft engineers happy.

    As an user, I can already install exe from my PC on my tablet. It didn't cost MS much and it meets my needs on PC/tablet.

    Even if my phone apps are different from my tablet or PC, that's ok for me.

    I am not saying that developers won't port apps to w10 from Android or iPhone, some may do it.

    But I think that most who are interested would have already done the porting to 8.1.

    It's not that much of an issue because some developers already use things like unity, libgdx or even html5 to go cross platform.

    Additionally, to compete on Android, good apps really need to conform to material design, but Microsoft is also trying to impose their own philosophy on apps to ensure consistency. So it doesn't seem porting will be automatic.







    As soon as there is a BlackBerry 10 dual SIM, I fully quit Android.
    You are missing a very big part of the equation here. In 8.1, they had to create ALL the code in order to make the app. In w10 its a simple process where they just plug their android or IOS code into microsofts conversion tools and they have the windows app. THIS WAS NOT AVAILABLE on 8/8.1. That's why there were not many apps for windows/windows phone. The amount of effort was not worth the return on investment. Where as in w10 and project/xxxxx, Its a very simple non time consuming process and your user base is MUCH larger. Back in 8, you would have to develop a different app for tablets, comptuers and phones...
    11-01-2015 03:57 AM
  4. msnawe's Avatar
    In practice is rarely as smooth as it says in the tin.

    And of developers really end up porting android or ios apps to wp10 on a regular basis, your wp10 user experience will look very messy. All the benefits of the WP user experience will be lost.

    You will end with a mix of material design for some apps, ios for other apps and occasionally wp10 user experience.

    You might as well just get an Android phone with a fake wp10 launcher.

    It's much better for Microsoft to assign teams to build wp10 apps to fill in the gaps with quality apps.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    11-01-2015 05:09 AM
  5. Steve Adams's Avatar
    In practice is rarely as smooth as it says in the tin.

    And of developers really end up porting android or ios apps to wp10 on a regular basis, your wp10 user experience will look very messy. All the benefits of the WP user experience will be lost.

    You will end with a mix of material design for some apps, ios for other apps and occasionally wp10 user experience.

    You might as well just get an Android phone with a fake wp10 launcher.

    It's much better for Microsoft to assign teams to build wp10 apps to fill in the gaps with quality apps.
    No it's not better to have an android phone with a wp10 skin. Android is laggy, buggy, etc. Always has been, and from what I hear, always will. having a different look on some apps will be fine with me as long as they work, and are available. My windows phone will still function as a windows phone, not a crappy laggy android phone that looks like windows.

    So, No, it's not a perfect solution, but its a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

    Microsoft is NOT ALLOWED to build apps for various businesses etc. They are not allowed to go, hey, we are going to build a Sirius xm app for windows phone. Why? because SIRIUS XM owns that property.

    This is the simplest easiest way to get all the good apps. Make it simple for the people who own the rights to make the app for windows applications.
    JohnIvory likes this.
    11-01-2015 08:51 AM
  6. MikeX74's Avatar
    It's all about poor marketing and bad business decisions overall. The Lumia devices are better than the competition, the OS is better, it is a fact. The 950 will be a disaster simply because they're targeting a market they have no hope of ever entering, the flagship market. 90 % of these customers are paying for a brand, not a product. You won't attract them with a non-existent market share.
    Saying that WP and Lumia devices are better than the competition doesn't make it a fact, only an opinion.
    JohnIvory likes this.
    11-01-2015 10:26 AM
  7. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    In practice is rarely as smooth as it says in the tin.

    And of developers really end up porting android or ios apps to wp10 on a regular basis, your wp10 user experience will look very messy. All the benefits of the WP user experience will be lost.

    You will end with a mix of material design for some apps, ios for other apps and occasionally wp10 user experience.

    You might as well just get an Android phone with a fake wp10 launcher.

    It's much better for Microsoft to assign teams to build wp10 apps to fill in the gaps with quality apps.
    Exactly. Part of the appeal that WP had was the design language and how moving from one app to another was supposed to be seamless experience. Now with MS basically throwing their standard outs and ported iOS and Android apps flooding the market being an ideal solution there really isn't much of a reason for WP/W10M to exist. A copycat OS with tiles just isn't what I signed up for.

    If all that matters are apps just get an iPhone or an Android device and be done with. The MS services are even better supported on those platforms as well.
    11-01-2015 11:45 AM
  8. JohnIvory's Avatar
    Exactly. Part of the appeal that WP had was the design language and how moving from one app to another was supposed to be seamless experience. Now with MS basically throwing their standard outs and ported iOS and Android apps flooding the market being an ideal solution there really isn't much of a reason for WP/W10M to exist. A copycat OS with tiles just isn't what I signed up for.

    If all that matters are apps just get an iPhone or an Android device and be done with. The MS services are even better supported on those platforms as well.
    LOL, you guys are hilarious. You want to have your cake and eat it too. If you want Windows Phone to ever be successful, it needs apps. Period. If ALL you care about is that some apps don't follow the design standards of the OS, then you have to be satisfied with niche market status and lack of apps. It hard enough convincing developers to move their apps to another platform. Now you want them to change the UI as well? For a platform with 3% share? That will almost certainly never happen.

    What's even funnier is that even now a lot of apps in the store do not follow the guidelines. I wonder why you haven't abandoned the platform over of that.
    920Walker and nmco9 like this.
    11-01-2015 02:47 PM
  9. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    LOL, you guys are hilarious. You want to have your cake and eat it too. If you want Windows Phone to ever be successful, it needs apps. Period. If ALL you care about is that some apps don't follow the design standards of the OS, then you have to be satisfied with niche market status and lack of apps.
    Try not to assume so much, dude. It's not just some apps. MS's own W10M apps are now more like the bland badly designed garbage on Android/iOS. It's like turning on your phone and seeing pictures of your ex wife. I came to WP to get away from this trash.

    I wanted WP to be successful and I was okay with the limited amount of apps because I loved the look and feel of the platform. If all I cared about was apps I would've never left Android for WP. W10M though at this point is like a joke. Looks shoddy and still has a shaky future as MS has dropped the ball so many times it's comical. If MS doesn't care about their own platform why should anyone else?
    11-01-2015 05:49 PM
  10. JohnIvory's Avatar
    Try not to assume so much, dude. It's not just some apps. MS's own W10M apps are now more like the bland badly designed garbage on Android/iOS. It's like turning on your phone and seeing pictures of your ex wife. I came to WP to get away from this trash.

    I wanted WP to be successful and I was okay with the limited amount of apps because I loved the look and feel of the platform. If all I cared about was apps I would've never left Android for WP. W10M though at this point is like a joke. Looks shoddy and still has a shaky future as MS has dropped the ball so many times it's comical. If MS doesn't care about their own platform why should anyone else?
    There's a lot to unpack here. Obviously design and aesthetics are very subjective, so if you do not like the current look of W10M there really is nothing I can do to change your mind. While you were ok with the limited amount of apps (and by extension limited number of users) on Windows Phone, Microsoft clearly wasn't. This shouldn't exactly be surprising, as Microsoft is not some local artisanal smartphone company that only cares about design purity; it's a multi-billion dollar corporation that cares about its bottom line.

    In a perfect world, Microsoft would have released Windows Phone before the Motorola Droid came out on Verizon, thus securing their spot as the alternative smartphone OS behind iOS. Unfortunately this did not happen, and so Microsoft has had to make very tough choices about their mobile future. They need users on their platform. The amount of money you and others like you bring in by being loyal Windows Phone customers does not offset the development costs of making the platform. In order to get more people they need apps. In order to get apps they need to make porting as simple as is humanly possible, which is what the bridge project is attempting to do. Merging mobile and desktop has also led to significant tweaks in the design language and of course if you were a huge fan of the old Metro, you wouldn't be happy. Like I said though, Microsoft isn't here for just you.

    As to your last point Microsoft does care about their platform. They wouldn't be developing a universal app/OS strategy if they didn't care about the mobile market. Just because they're not doing things you specifically like doesn't mean they don't care.
    11-01-2015 07:15 PM
  11. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    In a perfect world, Microsoft would have released Windows Phone before the Motorola Droid came out on Verizon, thus securing their spot as the alternative smartphone OS behind iOS. Unfortunately this did not happen, and so Microsoft has had to make very tough choices about their mobile future. They need users on their platform. The amount of money you and others like you bring in by being loyal Windows Phone customers does not offset the development costs of making the platform. In order to get more people they need apps. In order to get apps they need to make porting as simple as is humanly possible, which is what the bridge project is attempting to do. Merging mobile and desktop has also led to significant tweaks in the design language and of course if you were a huge fan of the old Metro, you wouldn't be happy. Like I said though, Microsoft isn't here for just you.

    As to your last point Microsoft does care about their platform. They wouldn't be developing a universal app/OS strategy if they didn't care about the mobile market. Just because they're not doing things you specifically like doesn't mean they don't care.
    It's basically MS's last desperate attempt to get iOS and Android people over. People who already have access to Android or iOS apps. Good luck with that. Again there's not much incentive to go with W10M beyond what is left of what made WP unique and even that can be emulated with a launcher on the Play Store at this point.

    I totally understand that MS is not here to make me or anyone else that bought into WP happy. MS doesn't cater to last generation users. Just ask Windows Mobile and WP7 users. Also the people that bought into Zune. Great support there.

    I never said MS doesn't care about the mobile market. They obviously do. It's just that the mobile market to MS is Android and iOS. WP/W10M has never been a priority and I don't see that changing any time soon.
    nmco9 likes this.
    11-02-2015 06:37 AM
  12. Spectrum90's Avatar
    In the enterprise market there are many incentives to chose WP.
    In the consumer markets there are a few incentives too: Live Tiles, Continuum, consistency in UI/IX with Windows and in emerging markets WP is the only real alternative to Android.
    11-02-2015 07:32 AM
  13. JohnIvory's Avatar
    It's basically MS's last desperate attempt to get iOS and Android people over. People who already have access to Android or iOS apps. Good luck with that.
    I honestly don't get this point of view. They shouldn't try to get users from the other platforms? They should be satisfied with 3% market share and a lack of support from the developer community?

    Again there's not much incentive to go with W10M beyond what is left of what made WP unique and even that can be emulated with a launcher on the Play Store at this point.
    Except that's simply not true. No launcher can give you live tiles. No launcher is going to give you Continuum. No launcher is going to give you seamless integration with Cortana. No launcher gets you Office on your phone, free. No launcher is going to give you a great phone experience even on low-end hardware. This notion that there is nothing unique in Windows Phone is completely absurd. I'm not sure why you got a Windows Phone in the first place, but it seems you only did it so you could be "special" or something.

    MS doesn't cater to last generation users. Just ask Windows Mobile and WP7 users. Also the people that bought into Zune. Great support there.
    Not sure how MSFT shafted Zune users, but I do agree that their treatment of WP7 users left a lot to be desired. There were technological limitations to the upgrade though, and it was either forgo using the NT kernel for WP8 or leave WP7 users without an upgrade path. Considering their plans for the future, it's not surprising which one they chose. And even at its worst, the update paths on Windows Phone are still better than those for a good chunk of Android phones out there.

    I never said MS doesn't care about the mobile market. They obviously do. It's just that the mobile market to MS is Android and iOS. WP/W10M has never been a priority and I don't see that changing any time soon..
    I find it hilarious that you think Microsoft believes Android and iOS are more of a priority than Windows Phone/Windows Mobile. I mean this is a company that has gone through a major reorganisation in the past two years and is pouring a lot of resources into the development of Windows Mobile, including the bridge projects (which you don't seem to like, for some reason), but nope. It's top priority is other companies OSs. And if this is about the nonsense with Office apps or Skype being better in iOS/Android, I guess it bears repeating that Microsoft's current focus is Windows 10 Mobile, not Windows Phone 8, and so it's expected that in the period of the transition there will be a slight lag in feature set compared to the other mobile OSs. But who needs level-headed reasoning when we can just say "Microsoft doesn't care about Windows Phone! They only care about iOS and Android!"
    libra89 and IndyJG like this.
    11-02-2015 08:32 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    I find it hilarious that you think Microsoft believes Android and iOS are more of a priority than Windows Phone/Windows Mobile.
    Indeed; how ridiculous is it to think that 97.0% of the market is more important than 1.6%?
    Kram Sacul and nmco9 like this.
    11-02-2015 09:01 AM
  15. elindalyne's Avatar
    Indeed; how ridiculous is it to think that 97.0% of the market is more important than 1.6%?
    His point was if they were going to give up on Windows Mobile they wouldn't have spent billions on developing a new OS, universal apps, continuum, and bridge software.
    11-02-2015 09:10 AM
  16. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Except that's simply not true. No launcher can give you live tiles. No launcher is going to give you Continuum. No launcher is going to give you seamless integration with Cortana. No launcher gets you Office on your phone, free. No launcher is going to give you a great phone experience even on low-end hardware. This notion that there is nothing unique in Windows Phone is completely absurd. I'm not sure why you got a Windows Phone in the first place, but it seems you only did it so you could be "special" or something.
    Please, save the sales pitch. I'm talking about W10M. WP had a ton of unique things about it (hubs, UI, etc) and much of it has been thrown away or watered down with each version. I'm sure at some point live tiles will go as well. Why not? They're desperate to get users and if ditching everything would get them another 1% they would. MS is fond of starting over.

    I really couldn't care less about continuum. It's neat to show off but that's about it. Seamless Cortana integration. lol Yeah. Good luck trying to sell that when MS already put out a Cortana app for Android and iOS users. So much for that Windows exclusive.

    I find it hilarious that you think Microsoft believes Android and iOS are more of a priority than Windows Phone/Windows Mobile. I mean this is a company that has gone through a major reorganisation in the past two years and is pouring a lot of resources into the development of Windows Mobile, including the bridge projects (which you don't seem to like, for some reason), but nope. It's top priority is other companies OSs. And if this is about the nonsense with Office apps or Skype being better in iOS/Android, I guess it bears repeating that Microsoft's current focus is Windows 10 Mobile, not Windows Phone 8, and so it's expected that in the period of the transition there will be a slight lag in feature set compared to the other mobile OSs. But who needs level-headed reasoning when we can just say "Microsoft doesn't care about Windows Phone! They only care about iOS and Android!"
    It's always the same excuses. Restructuring, reorganization, it's a preview, wait until next year, etc. MS' own actions speak louder and it's obvious that they've put more effort into the various Android and iOS apps than anything on W10M which seems to have been worked on by two guys on their lunch breaks. If you're happy with it than that's great but for a lot of us it's just become a long drawn out joke.
    nmco9 likes this.
    11-02-2015 09:37 AM
  17. elindalyne's Avatar
    Please, save the sales pitch. I'm talking about W10M. WP had a ton of unique things about it (hubs, UI, etc) and much of it has been thrown away or watered down with each version. I'm sure at some point live tiles will go as well. Why not? They're desperate to get users and if ditching everything would get them another 1% they would. MS is fond of starting over.

    I really couldn't care less about continuum. It's neat to show off but that's about it. Seamless Cortana integration. lol Yeah. Good luck trying to sell that when MS already put out a Cortana app for Android and iOS users. So much for that Windows exclusive.
    There was a pretty telling AMA on reddit a few months back that explained the reasoning behind a lot of the design changes. Most of them boiled down to, hey we were wrong about how people actually use their phones and while those features were really nice if you understood it, for the majority of users they were a hindrance rather than a benefit.
    11-02-2015 10:04 AM
  18. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    There was a pretty telling AMA on reddit a few months back that explained the reasoning behind a lot of the design changes. Most of them boiled down to, hey we were wrong about how people actually use their phones and while those features were really nice if you understood it, for the majority of users they were a hindrance rather than a benefit.
    This is coming from the same clowns that said "people are not squares" and gave us goofy cropped profile pics. The design changes are less about what works and more about catering to Android and iOS users by repeating the same design mistakes. I am pleased that they've fixed a few of their dumb UI changes (adding pivots, removing hamburger menu in photos app) but it's still a far cry from 8.1.

    Windows 10 Mobile adds reachability hack to compensate for incompetent UI designers | Pocketnow
    11-02-2015 10:26 AM
  19. elindalyne's Avatar
    I'm sorry you're not satisfied, but data is data. Designing around things that people actually use is better than catering to a niche market of an already niche market.
    11-02-2015 10:34 AM
  20. JohnIvory's Avatar
    I guess the answer to you then is LEAVE. I'm tired of this discussion. If you don't like where the company is going, and you think that there is better value on other platforms, leave. I'm not here to convince anyone to stay. I like what Windows Phone/Mobile has to offer. Personally live tiles ALONE are the biggest selling point of Windows Phone, and since my needs from my phone are not that great it's a perfect fit for me. That may not be the case for you and so you are welcome to leave.

    And in case you didn't read: Windows 10 Mobile is STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT. Expected the same feature-set and polish on an OS that is being developed vs. on one that has been released and has a fixed API is silly and impossible. This is a transitionary period. Have there been a lot of these? Actually no; we haven't had something like this since 2012 with the launch of Windows Phone 8. If this is one too many for you, leave. If you feel like your money is better invested elsewhere, leave. Personally, all the things I mentioned are enough to keep me on Windows Mobile for the foreseeable future.
    neo158 likes this.
    11-02-2015 10:43 AM
  21. 707wpfan's Avatar
    I guess the answer to you then is LEAVE. I'm tired of this discussion. If you don't like where the company is going, and you think that there is better value on other platforms, leave. I'm not here to convince anyone to stay. I like what Windows Phone/Mobile has to offer. Personally live tiles ALONE are the biggest selling point of Windows Phone, and since my needs from my phone are not that great it's a perfect fit for me. That may not be the case for you and so you are welcome to leave.

    And in case you didn't read: Windows 10 Mobile is STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT. Expected the same feature-set and polish on an OS that is being developed vs. on one that has been released and has a fixed API is silly and impossible. This is a transitionary period. Have there been a lot of these? Actually no; we haven't had something like this since 2012 with the launch of Windows Phone 8. If this is one too many for you, leave. If you feel like your money is better invested elsewhere, leave. Personally, all the things I mentioned are enough to keep me on Windows Mobile for the foreseeable future.

    We are also welcome to stay and voice our opinions Mr. Trump
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    11-02-2015 10:57 AM
  22. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    I guess the answer to you then is LEAVE. I'm tired of this discussion. If you don't like where the company is going, and you think that there is better value on other platforms, leave. I'm not here to convince anyone to stay. I like what Windows Phone/Mobile has to offer. Personally live tiles ALONE are the biggest selling point of Windows Phone, and since my needs from my phone are not that great it's a perfect fit for me. That may not be the case for you and so you are welcome to leave.

    And in case you didn't read: Windows 10 Mobile is STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT. Expected the same feature-set and polish on an OS that is being developed vs. on one that has been released and has a fixed API is silly and impossible. This is a transitionary period. Have there been a lot of these? Actually no; we haven't had something like this since 2012 with the launch of Windows Phone 8. If this is one too many for you, leave. If you feel like your money is better invested elsewhere, leave. Personally, all the things I mentioned are enough to keep me on Windows Mobile for the foreseeable future.
    Give me a break. I have too much invested in this platform and MS services to just walk away. This is a thread on a message board and you're having a hissy fit/mantrum over this? Sorry but that's just hilarious. Go get a drink, come back and have a laugh over what you wrote. I promise it will feel better.

    Yeah, Windows is always under development. It's a preview, it's coming soon, wait until next year, where's the beef. We all know the lines. MS should make a t-shirt.
    11-02-2015 11:17 AM
  23. elindalyne's Avatar
    Give me a break. I have too much invested in this platform and MS services to just leave. This is a thread on a message board and you're having a hissy fit/mantrum over this? Sorry but that's just hilarious. Go get a drink, come back and have a laugh. I promise it will feel better.

    Yeah, Windows is always under development, it's a preview, it's coming soon, wait until next year, where's the beef. We know all the lines. MS should make a t-shirt.
    The issues is this thread is/was a doom and gloom thread that has been going on for nearly a month. People have given their opinions either way and presented rebuttals, but in reality I think we're all sick of it. No one is going to convince someone else that their opinion isn't the right opinion. It's like arguing politics at this point.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-02-2015 11:24 AM
  24. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    The issues is this thread is/was a doom and gloom thread that has been going on for nearly a month. People have given their opinions either way and presented rebuttals, but in reality I think we're all sick of it. No one is going to convince someone else that their opinion isn't the right opinion. It's like arguing politics at this point.
    Exactly. It's all opinions and I think everyone has said what they wanted to say. No need to get stressed out over this garbage. I'm done.
    11-02-2015 11:29 AM
  25. Akssingh's Avatar
    Exactly. It's all opinions and I think everyone has said what they wanted to say. No need to get stressed out over this garbage. I'm done.
    I am done with widows phones......
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    11-02-2015 11:40 AM
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