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12-05-2015 11:07 PM
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  1. dlcpa's Avatar
    I spoke to a Microsoft sales person today about an accounting system called dynamics ERP and dynamics CRM. They are high end accounting programs that can be tailored to specific industries. The sales person said to me that one of the beauties of them are they can be used across all the Microsoft devices. So I decided to ask him if he had a Windows Phone. Makes sense when he's talking about applications that go across the entire Microsoft line. He said no. He also said I guess I would have gotten one if they were offered it at a discount. How stupid is Microsoft Management? Here is an opportunity to get people who are respected for their knowledge of computers talking about there Windows Phone.

    I don't know what they do at Microsoft to market these things but having no banks, that is that is 0 banks, none, that have an app that works on Windows Phone is shameful. They don't really do a lot of advertising and they certainly don't hit Apple where it is vulnerable and they have many vulnerabilities with the largest one being that Apple is not an American company anymore and they do not pay US corporate tax on the sales of the devices, not those worldwide and not even those sold here. What kind of balls do these people have to be so inundated in our society, their devices in all our schools, many of our government offices and even at the polling booths and then they leave for tax purposes. Thank God Americans are as stupid as dirt and have the attention span of a jeopardy question. And Microsoft ignores this.

    But what is Microsoft doing to get these people back. Yes come back because they had them with Windows as they certainly had them with Windows Mobile 6. But almost all of them use Windows programs at work. But Microsoft is even going to lose that as more people get iPhones and then get Apple laptops and desktops. Then, goodbye Windows.

    Satya Nadella may have very good talents but I have no doubt that understanding the American people is not one of them and therefore he should not be the CEO of Microsoft. They need somebody like Steve Jobs, not even someone like Bill Gates, it needs dynamic marketing and an understanding of what the American people need. That will also help them with sales all over the world but they must advertise, they must destroy Apple, and they must get some apps for at least the biggest banks. 5 programs can represent 100 million people. How stupid are they at Microsoft?
    11-24-2015 03:26 PM
  2. rhapdog's Avatar
    but having no banks, that is that is 0 banks, none, that have an app that works on Windows Phone is shameful.
    There are a number of banks around the world that have Windows Phone apps that keep them current.

    In the US, Wells Fargo and Ally bank both have apps. Those are 2 very large banks. Just because Chase and Bank of America bailed a while back doesn't mean much. Chase has already stated they were evaluating making the Windows 10 app. The Bank of America CEO is a lot like the SnapChat CEO. Don't expect anything there. Local banks don't have apps. So what. You'll have to wait a few more years for those.

    I don't believe the app situation is Satya Nadella's fault. There is no amount of advertising to get developers to start making the apps for the platform until there is a large enough percentage of people ON the platform to start with. No amount of advertising will keep a large enough percentage of people ON the platform until there are apps already there. It's a vicious cycle. It isn't that the lack of marketing is showing stupidity, but it instead shows an acknowledgement of the reality that exists.

    It would be impossible for Microsoft, no matter how much money they drop into the marketing, to budge this issue in a traditional way. This cycle of needing apps for users and needing users for apps is one that can't be broken because of the catch-22 dilemma. That's why Microsoft is building a new cycle to ride.

    This is why Satya has stated a long term goal for Microsoft. One billion devices with Windows 10 by 2018 is the first goal. Once Windows 10 is on one billion devices, including desktop (and it will get there at the going rate easily), then it will be so much easier to push developers to the Universal Windows Platform. Once the developers make the apps, the Mobile market will see a huge uptick in adoption.

    This is, however, a long term goal. The only reason Microsoft put out the 950 and 950XL was not to try to reach new people, but to satisfy the outcry of the faithful Windows Phone fans so that they could have a new flagship device. The best devices and best of what Windows 10 Mobile is still in the future, and will be for quite some time.

    We should see a growing app store and mobile presence acceptance in about 3 to 4 years according to Microsoft's stated goals. Until then, don't expect much.

    However, people pronouncing the "death of Windows Phone" or "death of Windows 10 Mobile" are premature. Microsoft will continue to fund it until the inevitable Windows 10 Universal Apps are available. It will take time, but it will in the end succeed.
    Last edited by rhapdog; 11-24-2015 at 03:57 PM.
    Laura Knotek and aximtreo like this.
    11-24-2015 03:41 PM
  3. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    But what is Microsoft doing to get these people back. Yes come back because they had them with Windows as they certainly had them with Windows Mobile 6.
    Not necessarily. Those folks might have been using BlackBerry back then. BlackBerry was more popular than Windows Mobile 6.
    rhapdog likes this.
    11-24-2015 03:54 PM
  4. Cruachan 11's Avatar
    Yet another post dealing in absolutes. I don't have the apps I want so the platform will fail and the CEO must go. A WEEK after W10M was officially released.
    11-24-2015 04:10 PM
  5. dlcpa's Avatar
    Cruachan, absolutes? Don't you think a deal should have been made with the top few banks? You think that's being too rigid and too demanding to expect that? Don't you also think it would be a GREAT idea to inform the American people, who see Apples in all their schools, every movie, in the voting boths and in almost every pocket, that Apple picked up and walked away fro the USA and pays no tax here on their Worldwide sales and not even for sales here in America, besides making nothing here. Also demanding?

    I think something is wrong at Microsoft and has been for many years, and perhaps these commercials and the exposing of Apple will come in the next few weeks when the 950 and 950XL will be available. Maybe we need to make Microsoft aware of these things. I don't believe Nadella understands what he needs to do to sell phones and the sale of those phones by other companies can eventually bring the whole company down.

    Am I wrong? Are there any bank apps? Is there at least one? Maybe we'll be surprised for Christmas. And what if we're not?
    11-24-2015 08:56 PM
  6. teckris's Avatar
    I am wondering if SOMEONE had ELECTED Nadella or he was chosen by Microsoft. Whatever is the reason, our opinions doesnt affect his position.
    The app issue is related to Microsoft only in one way, Microsoft came late into the game and struggling to gain enough users and inspire developers to ship on board.
    aximtreo and Laura Knotek like this.
    11-25-2015 12:12 AM
  7. Cruachan 11's Avatar
    Yes, absolutes. Your post is full of statements and opinions presented as fact, and is based entirely on the USA when Windows Phone is doing much better outside of the USA. MS are also competing more with Android than Apple in many markets, as Apple do not make an entry level device.

    It remains to be seen how the platform will do, and also how and where Microsoft will market it. With the fall of Blackberry they may decide to focus on the business market rather than consumer.
    11-25-2015 03:24 AM
  8. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    Tbh, Nadella has done so much better in two years with Windows 10 that we never really saw in years of development of Windows 8 in Ballmer's era. True, for a while it looked as if Microsoft has bailed on windows phone completely but the recent most build has again given me hope. It is working better than WP8.1 on my Lumia 525 and to think of the power I've through office apps and printing ability, is incredible. That too on a budget phone. (Hint: I did a clean install. Hard reset. No SD card. No back up restored.) Ofcourse the bugs we saw in insider builds was part of the process, something normal consumers are not used to but ones you can always believe in to be squashed before full consumer release. Of course some ares like design and features do seem a little unfinished but such is the nature of software as a service. Brad Sams has a pretty great write up on petri regarding Microsoft's changing culture regarding development and the toll it is taking on final products. Of course the quality isn't that great as we are used to with Microsoft but the development cycle is quick. We are getting updates sooner. Within a few years there will be hardly any new features to add, we can only do so much, and eventually every product reaches a threshold at which point our builds will become stable enough. But the stuff they are doing with single core for multiple screen sizes, continuum and reportedly app continuity with next update redstone- is already miles ahead of anything competition is doing.
    MikeSo, editguy and ar-7 like this.
    11-25-2015 03:58 AM
  9. rhapdog's Avatar
    I don't believe Nadella understands what he needs to do to sell phones
    Am I wrong? Are there any bank apps? Is there at least one?
    I explained both of these in my post above. Please go back and reread it. I have even named banks in the US that have apps, and there are numerous banks around the world with banking apps for WP. Only the US seems to be having issues with banking apps, but there are apps by 2 major banks that I listed. Wells Fargo certainly isn't your mom and pop local bank.

    Don't you think a deal should have been made with the top few banks?
    Microsoft actually offered to MAKE the apps for several top banks in the US that did not already have apps. Those banks declined the free and generous offer by Microsoft. Microsoft even offered to do the upkeep for a while, and those banks still declined. What excuse do they have? It would have cost them nothing.

    I'll state something I stated in my prior post once again, because it bears repeating. Until the user base is where it needs to be, the app developers won't develop apps for it no matter how much Microsoft begs, pleads, or bribes. Until the app developers make the apps, the users won't come to the platform without apps no matter how much Microsoft puts into advertising and pushes through stores. You see now why what you suggest just isn't possible?

    Read my prior post again. It will tell you about the strategy that Microsoft has to break this cycle to finally break into the market properly.
    11-25-2015 09:02 AM
  10. dlcpa's Avatar
    Rhap, I didn't see your reply that spoke about Wells Fargo and Ally Bank. That's why I continued to ask if there were any banks that we're using Windows Phone. I'm not exactly sure why the big banks won't accept Microsoft's writing the software and maintaining it for them. Perhaps Apple gets in the way somehow by offering the bank something to NOT do anything for Microsoft, as it would be against their interests to see Microsoft successful.

    Well, with all those devices, such as Surface, desktops and laptops, the banks will not be able to look away from MS. I'm not exactly sure while you feel that Microsoft will be successful this time when they haven't even come close to doing the right thing all these years. One major commercial campaign exposing that Apple totally left the country can be responsible for the sale of millions of phones and other devices. People do not understand what happened and considering Apple devices are everywhere, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to **** off the American public about Apple.

    I had written something about salespeople for high-end Microsoft accounting programs called dynamic ERP and dynamic CSV, not having Windows Phones. I think that's a sign that company is not moving in the right direction and administration doesn't know what's going on.

    I just don't have any confidence in Satya Nadella after that entire fiasco where he told women that they shouldn't ask for raises they should just be happy when they get them. That doesn't work here and it turned off a lot of women and it shows a lack of understanding of the American people and the American marketplace. Yes he apologized and it sounded sincere, but those are very bad thoughts for the CEO of Microsoft to have. I don't think you would have ever heard anything like that out of Steve Jobs and if you did you would think something was wrong with him. Yes there is a vicious circle but you have to find ways to break into it and not attacking Apple is a very poor strategy.

    Has anybody ever done a study on what Apple does to stay at number 1. What kinds of gifts they give. I hear people who are strong progressives talking about bad US companies and they never mention Apple. Tim Cook says Apple is an American company, that's a laugh. He makes nothing here and he doesn't pay tax on any of the sales of his devices here. That's American? People need to understand what Apple doesn't pay for our society, for infrastructure that they use to deliver there devices, for our military, for our schools, they, the American citizens will pay for. Not only are they over paying for their phons and Apple laptops but they also have to make up for the corporate tax that Apple ran away from.
    ChristodoulosK likes this.
    11-25-2015 10:32 AM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    I had written something about salespeople for high-end Microsoft accounting programs called dynamic ERP and dynamic CSV, not having Windows Phones. I think that's a sign that company is not moving in the right direction and administration doesn't know what's going on.
    I can maybe give some insight on this. Just to clarify, the Microsoft Dynamics division has several ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) software products. To simplify, ERP software is basically accounting software for businesses. ERP is not the name of the software, but rather a general descriptive term. Microsoft Dynamic's ERP products include GP (this is the one I work with), NAV, SL, and AX. A business will choose which one to use based on several things, including the type of business, previous products used, size, location(s), etc.

    Microsoft Dynamics also has a CRM product. CRM stands for Customer Relationship Management. It is basically a way to track customer interactions and dealings.

    Now, how does this relate to Windows Phones? Microsoft Dynamics products are sold and serviced by Microsoft Partners. My employer is one. We sell and service Microsoft Dynamics GP on behalf of Microsoft. We are not Microsoft employees. We choose whichever phones we wish to use (and I'm guessing actual Microsoft employees do too, although they probably get sweet deals on Microsoft devices!).

    My boss is also a Microsoft MVP in another division. He attends conferences and summits in Redmond several times a year. He says that the ratio of Windows Phones at those conferences does not seem to be any higher there than it is in the general public. Remember, these are not Microsoft employees; they are Partners. As far as which phone they choose, they are the same as the general public.

    Those of us who are, or work for, Microsoft Partners, work with, live, and breathe Microsoft in whatever department we find ourselves. But outside of this we are no more Microsoft fans than anyone else. We still choose whichever phone we wish to use based on whatever criteria we come up with. We might use Mac or Linux computers at home.

    In a nutshell, I do not think that the fact that a Microsoft Dynamics salesman didn't have a Windows Phone says any more about the issue than if say a McDonald's employee didn't have one.
    920Walker and rhapdog like this.
    11-25-2015 10:58 AM
  12. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    This has to be one of the most insane trajectories of logic I've ever read on the internet. Read the first post, absurd.
    Cruachan 11, tangledW and ar-7 like this.
    11-25-2015 11:01 AM
  13. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    The world has moved on to iPhone & Android. There is no room in mobile for a 3rd player and Blackberry just found out.
    11-25-2015 11:53 AM
  14. rhapdog's Avatar
    I'm not exactly sure while you feel that Microsoft will be successful this time when they haven't even come close to doing the right thing all these years.
    You speak as if Microsoft has never done anything right. For a while, they were the ONLY smart phone player on the market, until Apple showed up and changed the game. As far as what Microsoft does, Mobile is a very small slice of their pie. They make loads of money on their cloud service, Office, and Desktop OS. They have done a lot right over the years. MS-DOS, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows 7, all hugely successful. Windows 10 is doing as well or better than any of those at this early stage. Microsoft Office so highly overshadows every competing product by such a wide margin that Apple felt compelled to get Microsoft up on stage to demo Office on the iPad Pro so that Apple could like like it was actually productive.

    One major commercial campaign exposing that Apple totally left the country can be responsible for the sale of millions of phones and other devices.
    The United States is not the entire world. We live in a global economy. Sure, it could be possible to upset 100 million or more Americans to get them to turn away from iPhone, but most would go to a Samsung Android device if you did that. After all, the apps aren't there for Windows Phone yet.
    [NOTE]NOTE: 100 million is a fictional number I made up as an example. Stating 100 million as a number of iPhone users is simply an example number not meant to be accurate. All other numbers I use on population statistics will be used purely as examples, and not as an accurate forecast.[/NOTE]

    [INFO]FACT: The US currently has an approximate population of around 319 million people, which includes small children and elderly that likely don't have a smart phone.

    FACT: According to the World Population Clock, the current World Population is around 7.3 billion people. That's about 7 billion outside the US.
    [/INFO]

    What else would it do besides perhaps give Android an extra 100 million US customers? With Microsoft "bashing" a company for not being a "US" company, there are now 7 billion potential Microsoft customers around the world that reside outside the US that have just been insulted.

    Perhaps that would not be a good way to pursue the matter after all.
    tgp likes this.
    11-27-2015 12:06 PM
  15. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    Apple has 100 million active iPhones in the US. That is amazing.
    11-27-2015 12:09 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    You speak as if Microsoft has never done anything right. For a while, they were the ONLY smart phone player on the market, until Apple showed up and changed the game. As far as what Microsoft does, Mobile is a very small slice of their pie. They make loads of money on their cloud service, Office, and Desktop OS. They have done a lot right over the years. MS-DOS, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows 7, all hugely successful. Windows 10 is doing as well or better than any of those at this early stage. Microsoft Office so highly overshadows every competing product by such a wide margin that Apple felt compelled to get Microsoft up on stage to demo Office on the iPad Pro so that Apple could like like it was actually productive.


    The United States is not the entire world. We live in a global economy. Sure, it could be possible to upset 100 million or more Americans to get them to turn away from iPhone, but most would go to a Samsung Android device if you did that. After all, the apps aren't there for Windows Phone yet.
    [NOTE]NOTE: 100 million is a fictional number I made up as an example. Stating 100 million as a number of iPhone users is simply an example number not meant to be accurate. All other numbers I use on population statistics will be used purely as examples, and not as an accurate forecast.[/NOTE]

    [INFO]FACT: The US currently has an approximate population of around 319 million people, which includes small children and elderly that likely don't have a smart phone.

    FACT: According to the World Population Clock, the current World Population is around 7.3 billion people. That's about 7 billion outside the US.
    [/INFO]

    What else would it do besides perhaps give Android an extra 100 million US customers? With Microsoft "bashing" a company for not being a "US" company, there are now 7 billion potential Microsoft customers around the world that reside outside the US that have just been insulted.

    Perhaps that would not be a good way to pursue the matter after all.
    Well, there was BlackBerry as the most popular smartphone manufacturer prior to the popularity of the iPhone.
    rhapdog likes this.
    11-27-2015 12:09 PM
  17. rhapdog's Avatar
    Well, there was BlackBerry as the most popular smartphone manufacturer prior to the popularity of the iPhone.
    I stand corrected. At any rate, at that time, Smart Phones were for Business executives and never took off with the masses as I think BlackBerry and Microsoft believed the masses just needed basic flip phones and only Enterprise customers needed the extra of a smart phone. Apple saw a niche and made something simple enough for the mass consumers and it was a hit. It's been catch up ever since Google managed to make Android a viable second alternative.

    Apple changed the way phones were used. Apple and Google would have both had zero chance of getting into the smartphone market in the same way that Microsoft and Blackberry had. The game had to be changed by changing the direction of the market.

    Microsoft realizes this is the case again. They simply cannot re-enter the market until the direction of the market is changed. To do that, you have to redefine the future of the market, which is what Microsoft is attempting to do with Windows 10. Nadella is executing his plan well in that regard.
    tgp, Laura Knotek and MikeSo like this.
    11-27-2015 12:17 PM
  18. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    I stand corrected. At any rate, at that time, Smart Phones were for Business executives and never took off with the masses as I think BlackBerry and Microsoft believed the masses just needed basic flip phones and only Enterprise customers needed the extra of a smart phone. Apple saw a niche and made something simple enough for the mass consumers and it was a hit. It's been catch up ever since Google managed to make Android a viable second alternative.

    Apple changed the way phones were used. Apple and Google would have both had zero chance of getting into the smartphone market in the same way that Microsoft and Blackberry had. The game had to be changed by changing the direction of the market.

    Microsoft realizes this is the case again. They simply cannot re-enter the market until the direction of the market is changed. To do that, you have to redefine the future of the market, which is what Microsoft is attempting to do with Windows 10. Nadella is executing his plan well in that regard.
    There is no "changing the direction of the market". iPhones and Androids serve both personal and business needs perfectly. Just because Microsoft is desperate to be relevant in mobile doesn't mean squat. I predict Windows 10 Mobile + Continuity + UWP + Surface Phone means jack in the end.
    11-28-2015 01:32 PM
  19. dlcpa's Avatar
    Cygnus, your profile picture is of Roger Federer, another selfish expatriater like Apple. I want that to matter in the US. I do agree with you that I don't see W10 making an ounce of difference IF the marketing that we're so used to from Microsoft continues. How can you think Samsung and Apple have sewn up all business needs when most business computers are Windows based? If Nadella and MS doesn't wake up, they will lose all that.

    So, this crowd blames the banks for no bank software except for Wells Fargo and Ally bank which has no branches. I blame MS for not making it happen. Nadella has balls when he tells women to shut up but he says nothing bad about Apple or he doesn't make Americans aware that Apple isn't an American Corp anymore. So, they remain as mindless lemmings buying iPhones and iPads without a second if logical thinking.

    Someone accused me of saying that Microsoft hasn't done anything right ever. That's stupid and not how this works. Microsoft had it all and slowly but surely is losing it all. Yes Windows is still there but for how long? I'm not that anxious to change to Windows 10 as I was told to stay away from Windows 8 by software vendors that I use for tax software. So, all these people that say I'm wrong and that I don't know what I'm talking about haven't seen anything positive coming from Nadella except for windows 10 and continuum which are unproven and so far not salable because of the app environment. I think MS needs someone charismatic and tough selling their phone concept and it ain't Nadella but it wasn't Gates either and Ballmer was like a time bomb

    Yes the phones are pretty good and I most probably will buy a 950 XL. But because of Satya Nadella and his anemic marketing program, I had second thoughts and still may. Because of Samsung switching from changeable batteries and additional SD cards I'm not getting the Note 5. If tomorrow there was a Note 6 with changeable batteries i'd probably get that and wait another 2 years for Microsoft to wake up.

    Those of you who know Excel and Word, how much have they evolved in the last 20 years? For all we know Windows 10 will be another Windows 8 or Vista. You are all so sure W10 will lead Windows Phone to the promised land. I'm not sure but I hate Apple and I don't want a fixed battery.

    But think for a second, does MS tell you why you need to have the same OS on your phone and your business computer? How is that going to affect all those iTunes songs and movies or FaceTime or all the bank apps or the picture editing apps, or the dating apps, or the photostreams on iTunes or the bloomberg business apps, etc. Remember, they're selling to lemmings. MS needs a charismatic CEO that everyone can respect.
    11-29-2015 12:39 PM
  20. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    But think for a second, does MS tell you why you need to have the same OS on your phone and your business computer? How is that going to affect all those iTunes songs and movies or FaceTime or all the bank apps or the picture editing apps, or the dating apps, or the photostreams on iTunes or the bloomberg business apps, etc. Remember, they're selling to lemmings. MS needs a charismatic CEO that everyone can respect.
    LOL - keep calling 1 billion iPhone users 'lemmings'. I'm sure that keeps you sane somehow.
    11-29-2015 03:51 PM
  21. MikeSo's Avatar
    Nadella is doing fine, IMO, and the current Microsoft strategy of treating phones essentially as nothing more and nothing less than a 5"+ computing device is a winning one in the long term for the company, I believe.
    Microsoft has conceded the "phone market" and know they can't win there. They are now just trying to unify their OS to run on any device, so phone market share become irrelevant for them.
    However, while this is good (I believe) for the company as a whole, I don't think it will be great for us as Windows Phone users. We will continue struggling to get apps that the competitors have and phone hardware will be very limited.

    So it depends on how you see Nadella's role. Is it to grow Microsoft's overall business and profits? I think he has shown he can do that. Is it to make us get more banking apps? I don't think he cares that much, but we might, if Windows 10 Store pans out the way Microsoft hopes. It's not essential to the overall strategy though.
    11-30-2015 11:40 AM
  22. koloth's Avatar
    As a British and Australian Citizen, I'm anglo but less US centric. The population of the USA is 318 million and the global population is 7 billion. Analysts expect a quarter of the worlds population will be using smart phones by 2016. About a quarter of the worlds population don't have access to electricity so obviously not a market that can be reached at the moment but this will change. World population is expected to grow to 8.3 billion by 2030, but the percentage in extreme poverty is decreasing.

    So as you can see there is still a lot of potential to grow and Microsoft might do better in the budget area than the premium area that Apple operates in. Iphones aren't going to be bought by people on lower incomes, Apple isn't interested in them.

    Satya Nadella is Indian-American, this may give him a less American centric views. As the rise of the middle class in India (1.25 billion people) and China (1.3 billion people) go out to buy smartphones. These people are rapidly moving up the income scale and the world will be different. India particular has a lot of developers too and they will make Apps for the phones their people have.
    11-30-2015 03:33 PM
  23. koloth's Avatar
    Also history is an interesting guide. I was a toddler back then so my interpretation might be wrong. But in the 1980's IBM dominated the PC market with their own computers and operating system. Microsoft made an Operating system that could be used on multiple PC system (even bespoke ones built by me). This was a game changer and lead to Microsoft dominating the PC/Laptop market today.

    Now we see Apple who only have the premium customers (from a global perspective) and all of their users are locked in like those IBM customers. It's going to be painful for them to leave but history shows that it is possible especially in a rapidly growing market. The true rival is Android, Google seem to have learnt from history and have done a similar tactic to Microsoft in the 1980s by getting all the Phone/Tablet manufacturers on their side (something Apple isn't interested in).
    11-30-2015 03:53 PM
  24. rhapdog's Avatar
    There is no "changing the direction of the market". iPhones and Androids serve both personal and business needs perfectly.
    Exactly what Microsoft and Blackberry said when iPhone entered the market. Windows Mobile and Blackberry served business needs perfectly, and flip phones / feature phones served personal needs perfectly. That is, until the iPhone created a new direction in the market. It only takes looking at history over the last 50 years of computing and technology to understand that the only constant is the "change in what people are looking for" as new tech becomes available.

    If the entire computing and electronics industry had that attitude back in the 1960s, we never would have had a personal computing device of any kind, because only businesses needed computers, and those were multi-million dollar mainframe computers that you had to go through an operator to be allowed to use.

    Just because what we have now works doesn't mean there won't be a change in the direction of the market. History shows it happening time and time again.

    Also history is an interesting guide. I was a toddler back then so my interpretation might be wrong. But in the 1980's IBM dominated the PC market with their own computers and operating system. Microsoft made an Operating system that could be used on multiple PC system (even bespoke ones built by me). This was a game changer and lead to Microsoft dominating the PC/Laptop market today.
    Actually, Microsoft made that PC-DOS operating system for IBM. IBM simply licensed it from them and called it PC-DOS. Microsoft continued to market MS-DOS alongside PC-DOS, and made money for every copy sold under BOTH names. IBM had wanted to purchase the PC-DOS and all rights out right, and Microsoft would only allow them to "license" it from them. It's how Microsoft became the behemoth.

    It didn't lead to Microsoft dominating it, as they were already dominating it alongside IBM.

    Much of what you wrote is correct, though, and history definitely shows how technology will change directions every number of years. Those on top don't stay there indefinitely. Those on bottom can and do sometimes come back bigger than ever. Apple was being told to throw in the towel pretty much because they just couldn't break into a market anywhere. They re-invented themselves and surprised the world. Microsoft is now re-inventing themselves, and once complete, we'll see a rebirth that will be dominate, I believe.
    11-30-2015 05:39 PM
  25. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    Except MS never sold 900 million flagship devices in 8 years like Apple has.
    11-30-2015 11:45 PM
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