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  1. cracgor's Avatar
    You're misunderstanding me. You can have an IoT application that runs a kiosk be the same package that runs on your phone, that runs on your desktop. 1 codebase to support rather than 3.
    It depends on a lot of ifs. Microsoft's best mobile plan will be to invent something that is not a phone that can replace your laptop because they can't even make a phone that can replace your phone.
    12-03-2015 12:52 PM
  2. elindalyne's Avatar
    Baby steps. The important thing with the UWP package is it gives you a baseline to build off of. Combine that with continuum and it makes it a lot easier for devs to support multiple environments.

    Look how quickly responsive website design took off.
    12-03-2015 12:58 PM
  3. cracgor's Avatar
    Baby steps. The important thing with the UWP package is it gives you a baseline to build off of. Combine that with continuum and it makes it a lot easier for devs to support multiple environments.

    Look how quickly responsive website design took off.
    Sure it makes it easier to make an app on one device and put it on every device, or easy for users to move from device to device.

    My reason for starting this thread is I see no compelling reason to believe having an app on your computer will save mobile. Maybe it is because I'm in the windows ecosystem but I thought universal apps were going to get PC apps to mobile, but I don't see that happening. The problem with universal apps is many apps are suited for 1 type of device. We are missing mobile apps, and I do not see any reason to compel developers to make an app on the universal platform to take advantage of mobile if it does not already exist.
    12-03-2015 01:06 PM
  4. elindalyne's Avatar
    I can think of quite a few IOS/Android apps that would benefit greatly from having a desktop application...

    I'm trying to think of exactly what type of app you're talking about that wouldn't benefit from a different environment.

    Since people are citing Starbucks a lot... All the information you see in the application on iOS would be available in the app without the mobile payment. Still a useful app for those that like Starbucks.
    12-03-2015 01:17 PM
  5. cracgor's Avatar
    I can think of quite a few IOS/Android apps that would benefit greatly from having a desktop application...

    I'm trying to think of exactly what type of app you're talking about that wouldn't benefit from a different environment.

    Since people are citing Starbucks a lot... All the information you see in the application on iOS would be available in the app without the mobile payment. Still a useful app for those that like Starbucks.
    The main benefit to the iPhone one was the payment barcode even before the NFC abilities. If they made this Starbucks app for PC without payment information, how would that help mobile? Even if they make it universal, you have a subpar app.

    I was in your line of thinking a couple of months ago. But now I can't really say I see how it will lead to the development I want.

    I also don't know what the exciting apps going universal are. The only that I can think of that led to mobile development was vlc. All the others are like mytube or baconit, which are fantastic apps that fill their respective voids. They however were already on mobile, so it just improves the PC.
    12-03-2015 01:29 PM
  6. elindalyne's Avatar
    I think you underestimate how bad some people are with computers. Even if the desktop app is literally a re-skinned version of their website, this is ideal for non computer savy people. A direct line is better for those with little computer literacy than a website.
    12-03-2015 01:49 PM
  7. cracgor's Avatar
    I think you underestimate how bad some people are with computers. Even if the desktop app is literally a re-skinned version of their website, this is ideal for non computer savy people. A direct line is better for those with little computer literacy than a website.
    Do you mean for the Starbucks app on mobile? I think it's very possible that the universal app platform may lead to more apps on PC, but probably not as many as I would like. And then they probably won't lead to the great mobile apps we want.
    12-03-2015 02:13 PM
  8. Dan TheMan86's Avatar

    Also, as easy as this should be, like Nadella failed to explain, a Starbucks app, Lowe's app, Bank of America app, or any other mobile app makes little sense to put on a PC. You don't interact the same with them. And so there is little chance of leveraging PC to get phone apps.
    My thoughts exactly
    jmf337 likes this.
    12-03-2015 02:53 PM
  9. Musicman247's Avatar
    I wonder if it would help to have Clippy pop up in Visual Studio and say, "I see you're making an app for the PC. Would you like help formatting it for a mobile device as well?"
    dKp1977 and jeffchapik like this.
    12-03-2015 03:33 PM
  10. cracgor's Avatar
    I wonder if it would help to have Clippy pop up in Visual Studio and say, "I see you're making an app for the PC. Would you like help formatting it for a mobile device as well?"
    I wonder I they could put MS Bob on the phone. Everyone knows that was ahead of its time. Maybe we are ready!
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-03-2015 05:19 PM
  11. SeeVuPlay's Avatar
    The guy who led Microsoft to it's failure in mobile is now telling them that their strategy for mobile is going to fail. If only he hadn't laughed at the iPhone...
    7a2eer, Bobcat665 and MikeSo like this.
    12-03-2015 05:56 PM
  12. 7a2eer's Avatar
    I'll rephrase.

    Windows 10 mobile is not available to officially download to the masses. It's available on two phones.

    Once Windows 10 mobile is released globally and people are able to upgrade, the apps will come.
    Who is going to develop these apps? You??
    I am a developer, tell me why I should put hundreds of hours of work into the UWP. Is it because I should love and worship a corporation like Microsoft?
    It irks me to see comments like yours, how Microsoft does "X" and apps magically appear in the store. Who is developing these apps??? TELL ME

    I don't want your 0.99 and it seems like Microsoft doesn't either ...

    ____

    Ballmer has a point. Astoria is on hiatus, and no other interesting alternatives have been proposed. The Islandwood bridge is actually bad for the Store, as maintaining WP code is on the back burner by design. With all the talent at Microsoft, has it not once occurred to them to create a better Xamarin?? Target Windows and export to iOS/Android.
    12-03-2015 06:32 PM
  13. 7a2eer's Avatar
    The guy who led Microsoft to it's failure in mobile is now telling them that their strategy for mobile is going to fail. If only he hadn't laughed at the iPhone...
    But the iPhone didn't have a stylus or a keyboard :^)
    iOS at release was terrible, so was Android.

    Of course Ballmer was laughing them off, a lot of people did. What kind of smartphone doesn't record video? lol
    SeeVuPlay and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-03-2015 06:35 PM
  14. 7a2eer's Avatar
    Also, as easy as this should be, like Nadella failed to explain, a Starbucks app, Lowe's app, Bank of America app, or any other mobile app makes little sense to put on a PC. You don't interact the same with them. And so there is little chance of leveraging PC to get phone apps.
    The predominant design pattern in UWP app development is MVVM.
    12-03-2015 06:38 PM
  15. chmun77's Avatar
    I'll rephrase.

    Windows 10 mobile is not available to officially download to the masses. It's available on two phones.

    Once Windows 10 mobile is released globally and people are able to upgrade, the apps will come.
    Wow... So how "officially" are you expecting?? As for the rest of the phones, those are considering as OS updates. Officially, Windows 10 mobile IS already released with the launch of the NEW phones.

    Anyways, back to the topic. Universal apps or not, all depending on efforts by developers. At the end of the day, if devs are not even keen with such small market OS - 1.6% to be precise, so much for apps being universal. This platform is dead..... Furthermore, Satya's vision is to promote Microsoft cloud and services to every corner of the Earth. He doesn't care if windows phone is selling or not.
    cracgor likes this.
    12-03-2015 07:31 PM
  16. chmun77's Avatar
    Who is going to develop these apps? You??
    I am a developer, tell me why I should put hundreds of hours of work into the UWP. Is it because I should love and worship a corporation like Microsoft?
    It irks me to see comments like yours, how Microsoft does "X" and apps magically appear in the store. Who is developing these apps??? TELL ME

    I don't want your 0.99 and it seems like Microsoft doesn't either ...

    ____

    Ballmer has a point. Astoria is on hiatus, and no other interesting alternatives have been proposed. The Islandwood bridge is actually bad for the Store, as maintaining WP code is on the back burner by design. With all the talent at Microsoft, has it not once occurred to them to create a better Xamarin?? Target Windows and export to iOS/Android.
    He is one of those hardcore fans still living on the ivory tower of windows phone. Not knowing that in fact the tower is already collapsing. They are just beating the dead horse.
    7a2eer likes this.
    12-03-2015 07:34 PM
  17. chmun77's Avatar
    Sure it makes it easier to make an app on one device and put it on every device, or easy for users to move from device to device.

    My reason for starting this thread is I see no compelling reason to believe having an app on your computer will save mobile. Maybe it is because I'm in the windows ecosystem but I thought universal apps were going to get PC apps to mobile, but I don't see that happening. The problem with universal apps is many apps are suited for 1 type of device. We are missing mobile apps, and I do not see any reason to compel developers to make an app on the universal platform to take advantage of mobile if it does not already exist.
    TBH, I'm already on windows 10 on my desktop and notebook. Yet I'm have not install any apps from the store so far. I still prefer using x84/x64 apps or to be better, I can simply user my Firefox (not a fan of Edge or IE) to accomplish my tasks and also for entertainment.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    12-03-2015 07:37 PM
  18. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Steve Ballmer is correct in this newest article. Universal apps are destined to fail. They have been present for I don't know exactly, a year? I was always excited to see them in the store, even though rarely. It does seem that they go mostly from the phone to PC which makes sense. It is easy to do and a developer can go from the small population of Windows Mobile users to the large audience of PC users. It is kind of dumb to make the effort the other way around, since you still have to provide updates and time.

    Also, as easy as this should be, like Nadella failed to explain, a Starbucks app, Lowe's app, Bank of America app, or any other mobile app makes little sense to put on a PC. You don't interact the same with them. And so there is little chance of leveraging PC to get phone apps.
    The thing is, Universal apps are new... A project like this will take MONTHS if not years to find out of it really is successful. No one has a clue if they will or wont work.

    Windows Phone is the bigger question here. So, devs now wont make an app for Windows Phone....maybe they love their iPhone, or Android device, or they just think that it's not going anywhere (with Microsoft saying they are not chasing the market, I see their point) So they start making an app for Windows 10 PC (10 million people have it, good amount of people, great exposure), If they don't like Windows Phone for some reason, why would they even make an app for Windows Phone ? Why bother ?

    Will this SAVE Windows Phone ? Who knows but, we should all hope it does. Microsoft is taking a back seat on Windows Phone now, NOT chasing the market, releasing only 3 devices a year but, no promotion and only for the fans/corporate users. This is a VERY bad thing. Microsoft has done this type of thing in the past.

    I give it 2 years.. This is Microsoft's check time, If the Market place has not really grown (so we get 10 apps but, we lose 12 apps, it goes no place), and the market share is still sitting around 3-4%. Microsoft will put an end to Windows Phone.

    I have been following Microsoft as a company from the Windows 3.0 days, I have been following news, podcasts and any other outlets, I have seen how Microsoft does business.

    This could be the start of the end if things don't pick up....but, this is with out big money for advertisements and BUYING apps from Microsoft...

    Trust me when I say it, Microsoft has done this type of thing before.....but, that was over a few million dollars....Windows Phone has cost Microsoft in the BILLIONS. Think about it..
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-03-2015 07:46 PM
  19. ajj3085's Avatar
    Lets look at an example of a Universal app, Huetro for Hue by Neils Laute, Neils has supported WP and Windows but now he only has to make one app that runs on the one platform, so he can concentrate on just one thing saving time and money, for me I only need download one app on whatever platform I want it on, and I only have to show my wife one app and that saves me so much time and effort you wouldn't believe it.

    But for other developers who have been on one platform or the other, now just they just have the one, for all the people who reckon PC users can just use a web login, now they have a reason to think of apps, because not all PC users use desktops, some of us use phones, some small tablets, some use transformers and there are even one or two traditional PC's about, the point is Windows isn't just a dying OS stuck on PC's, it's a young upstart that can run on almost anything including fridges.

    Developers will want to be involved because this is going somewhere now.
    I'm hoping companies keep in mind that people prefer apps over websites. Even on a desktop i do, i use the facebook app and weather apps instead of going to the browser for example.
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-03-2015 08:15 PM
  20. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    The thing is, Universal apps are new... A project like this will take MONTHS if not years to find out of it really is successful. No one has a clue if they will or wont work.

    Windows Phone is the bigger question here. So, devs now wont make an app for Windows Phone....maybe they love their iPhone, or Android device, or they just think that it's not going anywhere (with Microsoft saying they are not chasing the market, I see their point) So they start making an app for Windows 10 PC (10 million people have it, good amount of people, great exposure), If they don't like Windows Phone for some reason, why would they even make an app for Windows Phone ? Why bother ?

    Will this SAVE Windows Phone ? Who knows but, we should all hope it does. Microsoft is taking a back seat on Windows Phone now, NOT chasing the market, releasing only 3 devices a year but, no promotion and only for the fans/corporate users. This is a VERY bad thing. Microsoft has done this type of thing in the past.

    I give it 2 years.. This is Microsoft's check time, If the Market place has not really grown (so we get 10 apps but, we lose 12 apps, it goes no place), and the market share is still sitting around 3-4%. Microsoft will put an end to Windows Phone.

    I have been following Microsoft as a company from the Windows 3.0 days, I have been following news, podcasts and any other outlets, I have seen how Microsoft does business.

    This could be the start of the end if things don't pick up....but, this is with out big money for advertisements and BUYING apps from Microsoft...

    Trust me when I say it, Microsoft has done this type of thing before.....but, that was over a few million dollars....Windows Phone has cost Microsoft in the BILLIONS. Think about it..
    I think 2 years is still too long. I give it 12 months. If it hasn't improved the situation on Windows Phone by then, I can't see it ever doing so.
    12-03-2015 08:38 PM
  21. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I wonder I they could put MS Bob on the phone. Everyone knows that was ahead of its time. Maybe we are ready!
    Perhaps.

    IMO, Microsoft is done-done in the mobile space. When I think about where they were 10-12 years ago on top and how many golden opportunities they've squandered since then, how many times they've tried to reboot their offerings. Universal apps is just another attempt at life support.

    Long before the iPhone was a glimmer in Steve Jobs' eye, I was using Windows Mobile (Pocket PC OS) smartphones as my primary computing device on business trips. That was 12+ years ago.
    12-03-2015 09:18 PM
  22. 7a2eer's Avatar
    Would it be so evil to port Windows Runtime to Android?
    1. It would benefit all the Windows Developers as their apps could be run on Android. They would be making more money, giving them the opportunity to devote more resources on their projects.
    2. It would incentivize new developers to target Windows first, as they would be exposed to two platforms
    3. A translator similar to Islandwood could be designed to get Android developers onboard the UWP.


    Of course there's the issue of getting people to use Windows Phone. Marketshare is not resolved this way. It is obvious that most Windows Phone users are enthusiasts, just look at the percentage of users on W10M technical preview
    But the answer to this is a simple question: Why do we need marketshare? If Microsoft has stolen Android from Google, they would already be making revenue from their store. Would be great if it were possible to maintain factories and produce smaller quantities, strictly flagships.

    Microsoft has inlets already, i.e partnership with CyanogenMod, Samsung, etc to have their apps preinstalled. Imagine an Android phone that comes preinstalled with native Windows apps, a Windows launcher, and a Microsoft store. Microsoft doesn't need the underlying OS to be Windows to own it! This is exactly how Google stole Java developers from Oracle! (Obviously it worked well)

    There's so much more Microsoft can do with Universal Apps, Windows, and their Phones. They need to have a clear vision otherwise nobody will care for their products.
    12-03-2015 09:39 PM
  23. R0bR's Avatar
    Do you mean for the Starbucks app on mobile? I think it's very possible that the universal app platform may lead to more apps on PC, but probably not as many as I would like. And then they probably won't lead to the great mobile apps we want.
    Your question on how a Kroger Grocery app would benefit from UWP is the perfect example. Kroger could develop one app to run on Windows 10, as you research what you want to cook for dinner on recipe apps with your PC\Tablet you share ingredients to your Kroger app to build your grocery list. If you go to your fridge to make dinner you realize that you need eggs so you add it to the same app on your fridge IoTs display, much easier then going to grab your PC\Tablet. You're now at Kroger and you pull out your 950XL and launch the same Kroger app as you shop for what you added to your grocery list.

    Just because you don't think there is a use for the same app on multiple devices may only mean you don't have a vision for it, plenty of developers do. The big question is WILL the developers find the benefits of UWP worth developing for or not, for that it is too early to tell.
    MP3Mike, PepperdotNet and MikeSo like this.
    12-03-2015 10:09 PM
  24. cracgor's Avatar
    But the iPhone didn't have a stylus or a keyboard :^)
    iOS at release was terrible, so was Android.

    Of course Ballmer was laughing them off, a lot of people did. What kind of smartphone doesn't record video? lol
    At least it didn't take two years to figure out copy and paste...(I'm pointing at you WP7).
    7a2eer likes this.
    12-03-2015 10:34 PM
  25. cracgor's Avatar
    Perhaps.

    IMO, Microsoft is done-done in the mobile space. When I think about where they were 10-12 years ago on top and how many golden opportunities they've squandered since then, how many times they've tried to reboot their offerings. Universal apps is just another attempt at life support.

    Long before the iPhone was a glimmer in Steve Jobs' eye, I was using Windows Mobile (Pocket PC OS) smartphones as my primary computing device on business trips. That was 12+ years ago.
    Every time they reboot the system, they take it back a couple steps. At least the other OSes improve on previous work.
    chmun77 likes this.
    12-03-2015 10:39 PM
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