1. runamuck83's Avatar
    Microsoft beats Apple in online tablet sales

    The data is coming in and the trend is all in Microsoft's favor. Even though Apple presently maintains the highest market share of tablets, Microsoft is biting at their heels and just recently outsold iPad in online sales in the month of October 2015

    Given this data, how much longer can devs afford to ignore Windows 10 universal apps? Specifically games like Clash of Clans, etc. seem to be missing out on a opportunity here by ignoring it.
    920Walker, ven07, JohnStrk and 1 others like this.
    12-06-2015 08:24 AM
  2. ven07's Avatar
    Xbox also put up good numbers, so MS must be doing sth right.. I'll be interested to know how many 950's will go around the world
    12-06-2015 08:32 AM
  3. 920Walker's Avatar
    What will Apple's damage control be? The Comedy Central Roast of Tim Cook, featuring appearances by Steve Ballmer, Steve Wozniak, Bill Gates, the ghost of Steve Jobs with 3D Touch using HoloLens technology, and lastly Droid, as himself. Special appearances by Caitlyn Jenner and other insignificants.

    Surface is the present and future.
    EMINENT 1 likes this.
    12-06-2015 08:42 AM
  4. RichBrown68's Avatar
    It's the first month ever that the number one selling tablet brand sold online was Surface: October, Microsoft took 45% of the online market:

    Microsoft beats Apple in online tablet sales

    So those are official numbers. In a more unofficial vein, if you check Amazon.com, more people per week post a review for the Surface Pro 4 than post a review for the iPad Pro.
    leonelfunes32 and zkyevolved like this.
    12-06-2015 09:01 AM
  5. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    Developers will continue to ignore windows until they let go of this stupid notion that tablets aren't used much for apps. Which is pretty stupid since most apps are essentially the same services that we traditionally access through web browsers and native apps are a more fluid and polished solution for accessing and interacting with those services. Even more so on touch screen first tablets and/or 2in1s like Surface and Surface Pro.
    12-06-2015 09:01 AM
  6. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Those numbers look too good. They're probably calculating Share in terms of value (quantity*price). In terms of units sold Apple has a bigger advantage.
    These stats are only from the US. Surface is not as popular in other countries.

    Anyways, great news.
    12-06-2015 09:36 AM
  7. zkyevolved's Avatar
    Not surprising but I'm sure it'll change. The surface is a true PC with tablet functionality while the iPad pro is... An iPad... A tablet.... And a pen if you dish out the cash....
    12-06-2015 09:37 AM
  8. 920Walker's Avatar
    Not surprising but I'm sure it'll change. The surface is a true PC with tablet functionality while the iPad pro is... An iPad... A tablet.... And a pen if you dish out the cash....
    Pencil. Way different than a pen ;)
    12-06-2015 11:25 AM
  9. zkyevolved's Avatar
    Pencil. Way different than a pen ;)
    Haha. To be correct, neither are pens or pencils. They're pointer devices Haha.
    920Walker likes this.
    12-06-2015 12:28 PM
  10. etphoto's Avatar
    You can start threads like this on WPCentral. What will all the "Windows 10 is dead", "Microsoft is failing", "The sky is falling" trolls do?
    12-06-2015 12:49 PM
  11. runamuck83's Avatar
    You can start threads like this on WPCentral. What will all the "Windows 10 is dead", "Microsoft is failing", "The sky is falling" trolls do?
    The data speaks for itself I guess?
    12-06-2015 01:12 PM
  12. DJCBS's Avatar
    Given this data, how much longer can devs afford to ignore Windows 10 universal apps? Specifically games like Clash of Clans, etc. seem to be missing out on a opportunity here by ignoring it.
    Developers aren't ignoring Windows 10. Go look at all major software and you'll see it was updated already to support Windows 10. So all of that can run on Windows PCs, the Surface Book and Surface Pro's (and Surface 3). Same goes for all of Google's services.

    What developers are ignoring is the Windows app store and, indeed, Windows apps. And that's because Windows universal apps are NOT needed on a Windows 10 PC. They're only really necessary for mobile which is where developers see only 1.7% of marketshare. And it doesn't matter if the Surface Pro line sells ten times the iPad. The Surface Pro 3, for a developer, is a laptop. It's what people use the SP more as (which is why the Surface RT failed). A laptop replacement. And as a laptop, the SP3 lacks nothing on the software side.
    ven07, dkediger, N_LaRUE and 4 others like this.
    12-07-2015 08:03 PM
  13. runamuck83's Avatar
    Developers aren't ignoring Windows 10. Go look at all major software and you'll see it was updated already to support Windows 10. So all of that can run on Windows PCs, the Surface Book and Surface Pro's (and Surface 3). Same goes for all of Google's services.

    What developers are ignoring is the Windows app store and, indeed, Windows apps. And that's because Windows universal apps are NOT needed on a Windows 10 PC. They're only really necessary for mobile which is where developers see only 1.7% of marketshare. And it doesn't matter if the Surface Pro line sells ten times the iPad. The Surface Pro 3, for a developer, is a laptop. It's what people use the SP more as (which is why the Surface RT failed). A laptop replacement. And as a laptop, the SP3 lacks nothing on the software side.
    I think you totally side-step some of the benefits of an "app store" over software just being installed via the web.

    Store benefits: Easily restored, no messy registry entries left behind after uninstall, safe/secure. sandboxed, performant across multiple device ranges.

    These are just some of the benefits above/beyond the "universal" aspect.

    On top of this, your average-Joe user wants an easy way to find the apps/software they desire. The first place they'll want to look is in a Store that is organized, reliable, and allows for easy discovery.

    Especially given the fact that Microsoft is doing everything in their power to "push" users into the Store with Win10, going so far as recommending apps in the start menu and lock screen, and when browsing the web in Edge. (Again, your average-Joe user doesn't know how to disable these so they'll click on them)

    So many people think of Windows 10 apps with such narrow mindset on the "universal" aspect of it. Obviously, that's a major perk - but just one of many.


    People DO NEED app(lications) on their laptops/PCs/etc. - there's no reason for a developer to ignore the Windows 10 Store unless there's a legitimate reason they can't port their app to UWP. Otherwise, they ARE IN FACT missing out on possible customers.
    Spectrum90 and Snoke like this.
    12-07-2015 09:03 PM
  14. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The developers can ignore Universal Apps as long as they want. Simply put, almost no one I know who uses W10 on any kind of PC (desktop, laptop, Surface) uses apps from the Store. I barely touched MLB.TV during the season, the app was more feature-complete than the MLB.TV streaming site, but it was also unstable. I tried the Halo Channel app, and it's a pile of trash (same as on Xbox). I have used the included weather app on my work PC, but it's just as fast and easy to check my phone--and that's the big thing. People almost always have their phones sitting next to them, even in front of the computer, so they can have a Surface and check apps on an iPhone with ease.

    I just don't see app adoption on W10 anywhere NEAR as good as I see that OS adoption. Because of that, I think that the app situation just isn't a big deal to devs. The POTENTIAL user pool is high, but the reality is that people aren't clamoring for phone apps on their x86 machines.
    12-08-2015 12:24 AM
  15. ntice_521's Avatar
    The important thing is how much money the Universal app devs are making. Good device sales are a necessary condition, but it's not enough. The users have to want the apps. In the past, there hasn't been much interest in apps - almost nobody downloaded the beta version of Firefox, for example. So it was canceled.
    12-08-2015 02:34 AM
  16. runamuck83's Avatar
    The important thing is how much money the Universal app devs are making. Good device sales are a necessary condition, but it's not enough. The users have to want the apps. In the past, there hasn't been much interest in apps - almost nobody downloaded the beta version of Firefox, for example. So it was canceled.
    Kind of a different animal as that was limited to windows tablets
    12-08-2015 05:02 AM
  17. runamuck83's Avatar
    The developers can ignore Universal Apps as long as they want. Simply put, almost no one I know who uses W10 on any kind of PC (desktop, laptop, Surface) uses apps from the Store. I barely touched MLB.TV during the season, the app was more feature-complete than the MLB.TV streaming site, but it was also unstable. I tried the Halo Channel app, and it's a pile of trash (same as on Xbox). I have used the included weather app on my work PC, but it's just as fast and easy to check my phone--and that's the big thing. People almost always have their phones sitting next to them, even in front of the computer, so they can have a Surface and check apps on an iPhone with ease.

    I just don't see app adoption on W10 anywhere NEAR as good as I see that OS adoption. Because of that, I think that the app situation just isn't a big deal to devs. The POTENTIAL user pool is high, but the reality is that people aren't clamoring for phone apps on their x86 machines.
    Games are going to be the early leader in high demand. Games in the app store have the most early potential. No different than how games helped grow App Store on iOS
    12-08-2015 05:08 AM
  18. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I just don't see app adoption on W10 anywhere NEAR as good as I see that OS adoption. Because of that, I think that the app situation just isn't a big deal to devs. The POTENTIAL user pool is high, but the reality is that people aren't clamoring for phone apps on their x86 machines.
    I use a few apps: Mail, Calendar, OneNote, Wunderlist, Weather, Money, Sports, Readiy, Tapatalk, Twitter, Facebook and a few news apps.
    It's far easier to launch the app from the start menu than to grab the phone, unlock it, find the app in the launcher, etc.

    Live tiles are increasing my engagement with some apps. Sometimes I click the start menu to launch an app and I see something interesting in a live tile of other app. In fact, I'm getting into the habit of clicking the start menu just to see what's going on with stocks, news, mail, calendar and other pieces of glanceable information.

    I think in the long term the Windows store will be a total success. It provide value to users.
    12-08-2015 10:41 AM
  19. DJCBS's Avatar
    I think you totally side-step some of the benefits of an "app store" over software just being installed via the web.

    Store benefits: Easily restored, no messy registry entries left behind after uninstall, safe/secure. sandboxed, performant across multiple device ranges.

    These are just some of the benefits above/beyond the "universal" aspect.

    On top of this, your average-Joe user wants an easy way to find the apps/software they desire. The first place they'll want to look is in a Store that is organized, reliable, and allows for easy discovery.

    Especially given the fact that Microsoft is doing everything in their power to "push" users into the Store with Win10, going so far as recommending apps in the start menu and lock screen, and when browsing the web in Edge. (Again, your average-Joe user doesn't know how to disable these so they'll click on them)

    So many people think of Windows 10 apps with such narrow mindset on the "universal" aspect of it. Obviously, that's a major perk - but just one of many.


    People DO NEED app(lications) on their laptops/PCs/etc. - there's no reason for a developer to ignore the Windows 10 Store unless there's a legitimate reason they can't port their app to UWP. Otherwise, they ARE IN FACT missing out on possible customers.
    I didn't side-step anything. Developers did based on consumer practices.
    Also, developers have to share revenue with Microsoft to have their apps on the store...now WHY would I be willing to share profits just for that when my program can be installed via my website (which also has a couple of ads while we're at it) or via the disc the consumer bought?
    It's just as safe and secure. Performance across multiple device ranges? What for? If my program is designed to work on Windows desktop I have no interest in having it work on phones or the Xbox. Same as if I develop a mobile-app I have no interest in having it work on a PC to which it was not designed.
    Messy registry entries? The "average-Joe" couldn't care less about that.

    The average-Joe knows where to find the software he desires. They've been finding it for over 2 decades on Windows. Are you trying to say that suddenly people were hit with a dumb-ray and forgot?

    "Especially given the fact that Microsoft is doing everything in their power to "push" users into the Store with Win10, going so far as recommending apps in the start menu and lock screen, and when browsing the web in Edge. (Again, your average-Joe user doesn't know how to disable these so they'll click on them)"

    It's not really working that well, is it? They may bully some users to go there but I highly doubt they'll manage to make them pay for the apps on the Store. That is, assuming they find anything in that mess-pool.
    Also, the "recommendation" of apps on the start menu and lock screen aren't there by default. I've had friends buying new Windows 10 PCs and upgrading to Windows 10 and in NONE of those were such things turned on by default. And if they were, I am prepared to bet you that the average-Joe would complain and look for a way to get rid of it.
    As for the Edge browser...well that would first require people to use Edge. I don't know how things are in the USA, but in Europe the first thing one does when one gets a new PC is install Google Chrome. So...


    So, sorry but I disagree. People DON'T NEED Windows apps on Windows PCs and tablets. UWP will/would only benefit platforms where those programs aren't available. Which is basically Windows Phone. Which has 1.7% of marketshare and therefore it's a waste of developer resources. As I said in the beginning, developers of Windows desktop programs have zero advantages in transforming their programs into Windows Store apps. They gain nothing by it - as they don't design their software to be cross-platform - and the only thing they'll lose is revenue from the sales and the traffic to their websites.

    But hey, tell you what, let's wait and see. I'm convinced UWP will fail because of all the reasons I just exposed. You think users don't know what they want and will do as they're told (or, as I call it, the Apple-approach). Let us see, a year from now, if UWP did catch on or not. ;)
    12-08-2015 12:27 PM
  20. runamuck83's Avatar
    I think you'll be quite surprised at the results. Your looking at things from years of experience working with PCs. You're also expecting new generations to use computers the same way that you have for many years.

    There's a new generation growing up with "apps". This new generation has been hit by that "dumb-ray". In the coming years, a centralized app approach is what users will expect, and where they will go. Microsoft knows that, but obviously some people are stuck in the past.
    12-08-2015 12:33 PM
  21. elindalyne's Avatar
    Dev's only really have to share revenue from in app purchases. They can get around this by redirecting to a website for a payment or using an API under the covers...

    App adoption on W10 is much higher than it was on W8 or 8.1. Part of the issue with app adoption with W8 was that people absolutely abhorred W8. That's not really the case with W10. Already I find myself using more and more store apps rather than browser based technology.
    runamuck83 likes this.
    12-08-2015 01:00 PM

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