1. skstrials's Avatar
    If anyone remembers, John Chen suggested an idea of app neutrality a whole ago, where app developers are enforced to be platform agnostic.
    BlackBerry CEO John Chen calls for 'app neutrality' | CrackBerry.com

    I think MS could benefit from pursuing this idea as well. Right now, people cannot even consider Windows phone because of the lack of apps, me being one of those people.

    And it would also benefit people that are already on the popular Android and IOS platform. Since Apple and Google cannot hide behind the strength of their app store, they would have to work harder making their OS better even more so than before.

    In order for app neutrality to work, we can also introduce some exceptions.
    - Small independent app developers (revenue or downloads under a certain number) do not have to participate in app neutrality. This is done not to discourage small developers from making apps.
    - There needs to be a requirement for the phone OS to be included in the app neutrality (in the form of user base numbers, whether it is still being supported by the OEM). This would make sure that only the major mobile OSes such as BlackBerry 10 and Windows Phone are included in the market, but still keeps the door open for any other mobile OS in the future should they meet the user base requirement.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for BlackBerry 10
    12-14-2015 11:40 AM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    Chen switched BB to android, that should tell you how effective this idea turned out to be.....
    12-14-2015 11:54 AM
  3. skstrials's Avatar
    Chen switched BB to android, that should tell you how effective this idea turned out to be.....
    That idea was never put to practice since the legislators did not enforce it.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for BlackBerry 10
    12-14-2015 11:59 AM
  4. MikeX74's Avatar
    You(and John Chen) essentially want the federal government to mandate that private citizens and companies(whether public or private) spend their resources in ways that they clearly don't want to. Yeah, that'll go over well.
    Laura Knotek, libra89 and jmshub like this.
    12-14-2015 03:40 PM
  5. jmshub's Avatar
    The US government calls encryption a "tool of terrorism" and doesn't want private citizens to have the ability to use strong cryptographic encryption to protect our privacy on our devices. I wouldn't rely on that government to make sound legislation regarding technology.
    HeyCori and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-15-2015 10:55 PM
  6. StaticXCC's Avatar
    In other words, as a newbie developer, you want to FORCE me to code my app as an independent developer for all of these OS's, and suport them all?

    Android
    iOS
    Windows Phone (Windows 10 Mobile)
    BlackBerry 10
    Firefox OS
    Sailfish OS
    Tizen
    Ubuntu Touch OS
    Linux Desktops
    Windows Desktops
    Unix Desktops
    OS X
    PS4 OS
    XBOX One OS
    eComStation
    AmigaOS
    Haiku
    Inferno
    And I'm sure others can think of more.

    MikeX74 and HeyCori like this.
    12-17-2015 02:05 PM
  7. Chris Phelps's Avatar
    A lot of app developers design an app for their personal use, then only release it when friends and family start telling them it'd be cool to share it. The last thing we need is for the government to force them into supporting 30+ operating systems or not developing it at all.

    Am I the only one reminded of officials fining 5 year old girls for selling lemonade without a license? Yes... As a society, this is what we need more of.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-19-2015 09:58 AM
  8. skstrials's Avatar
    In other words, as a newbie developer, you want to FORCE me to code my app as an independent developer for all of these OS's, and suport them all?

    Android
    iOS
    Windows Phone (Windows 10 Mobile)
    BlackBerry 10
    Firefox OS
    Sailfish OS
    Tizen
    Ubuntu Touch OS
    Linux Desktops
    Windows Desktops
    Unix Desktops
    OS X
    PS4 OS
    XBOX One OS
    eComStation
    AmigaOS
    Haiku
    Inferno
    And I'm sure others can think of more.

    http://i44.tinypic.com/2133lhs.jpg
    No, you apparently did not read my original post properly.

    Read the last part about "exceptions" in the first post.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for BlackBerry
    12-19-2015 02:48 PM
  9. NM_N's Avatar
    Lol those exceptions will create the same problems for smaller OS's WP is having now.such a thing can not and should not be enforced.

    Developers are and should always be free to develop for what they want and not for all. Why because it's a free world and their own business.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-19-2015 02:55 PM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Lol those exceptions will create the same problems for smaller OS's WP is having now.such a thing can not and should not be enforced.

    Developers are and should always be free to develop for what they want and not for all. Why because it's a free world and their own business.
    Agreed. If developers are forced to support OSes with very small market share, then they could very likely lose money, which would force them out of business completely.
    HeyCori and MikeX74 like this.
    12-19-2015 02:58 PM
  11. MikeX74's Avatar
    There are two things that Chen and the OP apparently didn't consider: Developmental resources and enforcement. Where is the money that devs need to build their apps going to come from? Their own pockets. Like Laura Knotek said, building apps for OS's with little or no user support or return on investment can put a dev out of business. Is the government supposed to subsidize this with taxpayer dollars just so low-user/market share OS's get all the apps? Then there's the question of enforcement. How would the U.S. government enforce such a law(note that that all enforcement efforts would require more taxpayer dollars being given to the FBI.)? Monitoring of various app stores? Fines? Another way a dev goes out of business if they can't afford them. Arrests? Unnecessary spending for local municipalities/federal agencies. Prison time? Yeah, add someone else to already overcrowded prisons. Good idea. That would be an interesting story to tell in prison. When a convict approaches a non-compliant dev and asks, "So, what're YOU in for?" and the dev says, "I'm an app developer and I didn't build a version of my app for Tizen, so one day, while I was updating my app for an OS that actually has millions of engaged, paying users, the FBI arrested me and I ended up in prison. You?" That's certainly a worst-case scenario, but my point is that the idea of mandated "app neutrality" could have consequences that Chen and people who support this idea may be unable--or unwilling--to see for themselves.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-20-2015 01:54 PM
  12. NM_N's Avatar
    Yea I agree with mike, I wanted to add it to me own post before. Also this would have to enforced globally. Does the OP knows what this means? So many new regulations and rules to enforce on a global scale. What's next? Involve the UN?
    MikeX74 and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-20-2015 02:25 PM
  13. skstrials's Avatar
    There are two things that Chen and the OP apparently didn't consider: Developmental resources and enforcement. Where is the money that devs need to build their apps going to come from? Their own pockets. Like Laura Knotek said, building apps for OS's with little or no user support or return on investment can put a dev out of business. Is the government supposed to subsidize this with taxpayer dollars just so low-user/market share OS's get all the apps? Then there's the question of enforcement. How would the U.S. government enforce such a law(note that that all enforcement efforts would require more taxpayer dollars being given to the FBI.)? Monitoring of various app stores? Fines? Another way a dev goes out of business if they can't afford them. Arrests? Unnecessary spending for local municipalities/federal agencies. Prison time? Yeah, add someone else to already overcrowded prisons. Good idea. That would be an interesting story to tell in prison. When a convict approaches a non-compliant dev and asks, "So, what're YOU in for?" and the dev says, "I'm an app developer and I didn't build a version of my app for Tizen, so one day, while I was updating my app for an OS that actually has millions of engaged, paying users, the FBI arrested me and I ended up in prison. You?" That's certainly a worst-case scenario, but my point is that the idea of mandated "app neutrality" could have consequences that Chen and people who support this idea may be unable--or unwilling--to see for themselves.
    Again, you are forgetting the fact that app neutrality would not apply for "every single" app developers out there. As I mentioned, app developers that make below a certain sales, or revenue would be free from app neutrality. I am talking about companies such as Starbucks, Banks, etc that have the means to create the apps but won't. Also, app developers can charge higher cost for the apps that are free on Android and IOS, to help cover the running cost. If people like using the unpopular OS, such as BlackBerry or Windows Phone enough, they would not mind paying a bit more for a quality app that is available on other popular platforms. App neutrality would never apply to someone who can go bankrupt by posting an Android app, and posting it on BlackBerry 10 store that accepts Android apps already.

    And not only that, but the laws can also require the manufacturers to provide larger financial support to the app developers. There would be a small increase in the cost of handsets. But the importance of app availability in a modern smart phone would warrant that. Even without a law, handset manufacturers should be supporting the developers anyways if they want to create a competitive product.

    Secondly, app neutrality is also about respecting consumer rights. Many tech companies create "wall gardens" to lock their customers in. Many consumers often find other attractive tech products from another company, but cannot switch because of all the money they have invested in their old eco system. By removing those wall gardens, there would be a greater competition with companies actually interested in creating superior products rather than just trying to lock people in, like Apple.
    12-20-2015 04:06 PM
  14. MikeX74's Avatar
    Again, you are forgetting the fact that app neutrality would not apply for "every single" app developers out there. As I mentioned, app developers that make below a certain sales, or revenue would be free from app neutrality. I am talking about companies such as Starbucks, Banks, etc that have the means to create the apps but won't. Also, app developers can charge higher cost for the apps that are free on Android and IOS, to help cover the running cost. If people like using the unpopular OS, such as BlackBerry or Windows Phone enough, they would not mind paying a bit more for a quality app that is available on other popular platforms. App neutrality would never apply to someone who can go bankrupt by posting an Android app, and posting it on BlackBerry 10 store that accepts Android apps already.

    And not only that, but the laws can also require the manufacturers to provide larger financial support to the app developers. There would be a small increase in the cost of handsets. But the importance of app availability in a modern smart phone would warrant that. Even without a law, handset manufacturers should be supporting the developers anyways if they want to create a competitive product.

    Secondly, app neutrality is also about respecting consumer rights. Many tech companies create "wall gardens" to lock their customers in. Many consumers often find other attractive tech products from another company, but cannot switch because of all the money they have invested in their old eco system. By removing those wall gardens, there would be a greater competition with companies actually interested in creating superior products rather than just trying to lock people in, like Apple.
    You can throw in all of the "exceptions", cries for fairness, and wonderful notions about consumer choice that you want, but it comes down to the same thing: these are private citizens and non-government owned entities and they have the right to choose which OS's they want(or don't want) to develop for. No citizen or company should be compelled via government mandate to spend resources in ways they clearly don't want to. The funny thing is, John Chen wouldn't give a rat's *** about app neutrality if developers actually wanted to build apps for BB10. I mean, how desperate do you have to be as the CEO of a Canadian company to beg for intervention into app development by the United States government? Really? Did anyone think this hare-brained idea would actually fly?
    Last edited by MikeX74; 12-20-2015 at 07:46 PM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-20-2015 06:14 PM
  15. Migi2015's Avatar
    Bottom line, MS lost the mobile war and devs aren't interested in UWP on it's own merits. I get a stinking feeling that the UWP apps we're hearing about lately are all subsidized by MSFT.
    12-21-2015 05:13 PM
  16. btgusto's Avatar
    i thought that there should be one app store that all developers submit apps to. Then each OS maker would just load the app store onto their OS but how would you get the app to take advantage of phone features like Cortana? One size doesn't fit all when it comes to apps.
    12-27-2015 11:03 AM
  17. SinistraShine's Avatar
    Bottom line, MS lost the mobile war and devs aren't interested in UWP on it's own merits. I get a stinking feeling that the UWP apps we're hearing about lately are all subsidized by MSFT.
    At least when the RT came out, I heard that they did a lot of this..
    12-28-2015 02:46 AM
  18. Chalanthorn Chanmathikornkul's Avatar
    First time I misread it to John Cena. XD.
    MikeX74 and Keith White Jr like this.
    12-28-2015 04:12 AM
  19. Migi2015's Avatar
    At least when the RT came out, I heard that they did a lot of this..
    Until proven otherwise, I have to assume it's the same for the Uber, Facebook & Instagram apps. Also we can forget about ever getting Snapchat.
    12-29-2015 03:11 PM

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