01-31-2016 11:10 AM
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  1. Squachy's Avatar
    The "learn from competition" excuse is BS. Just because of how long they've been in this game. MS should mandate that their staff use windows phones as a daily driver NOT because its MS or MS product but as a way to identify flaws and drawbacks as a consumer and find solutions. Immediately they'll find the facebook, Skype, music, and twitter experiences to be sub par. What they can control they should be able to identify and fix right away because they're not satisfied with the experience instead of just showing up to work for 8hrs and then go home to their idroids and not care about it to the next day.
    01-27-2016 11:24 AM
  2. hlabadi's Avatar
    I hope you don't want to fire Hanselman for the same reason.
    jmagwp likes this.
    01-27-2016 11:26 AM
  3. Folfoodle's Avatar
    Spit ...
    01-27-2016 11:30 AM
  4. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    I don't care what anyone uses in the privacy of their home or office, but in public, Microsoft Phone employees should be promoting Microsoft Phone non-stop, exclusively. Support the hand that feeds you. That's what I think.
    HeyCori and Hoekie like this.
    01-27-2016 11:36 AM
  5. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    "I see many years of WM being 3% if stuff like this continues"

    3% is being quite optimistic.
    Yeah, that 3% figure was during the days of the Lumia 920/520/1520.
    If memory serves, current share numbers, globally, are in the 1.5-2% range. And that was before the Lumia 950 and Windows 10, which likely didn't move that many units worldwide at all. The financial quarter numbers that Microsoft will release this week should be revealing.
    I predict it will be overall positive in terms of the business at large (Office and desktop Windows in the enterprise are hugely popular), but the mobile side (software and hardware) is very likely circling the drain of irrelevance.
    01-27-2016 11:37 AM
  6. Stefano Garcia da Silveira's Avatar
    Joe Belfiore uses an iPhone... and?
    01-27-2016 11:40 AM
  7. DannyGT's Avatar
    To the OP. It’s called competitive analysis...every (smart) company/person does this? Hell - We've even had Apple order a computer from us (small gaming outfit). Won’t go into any details, but we were just as shocked about it too. Sure, maybe don’t go out and get caught, that I understand…but seriously, it’s not that big of a deal. Click bait if you ask me.
    editguy likes this.
    01-27-2016 11:41 AM
  8. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Joe Belfiore uses an iPhone... and?
    Read the comments above and on the twitter. Set a good example.
    Varun Rajan likes this.
    01-27-2016 11:42 AM
  9. asturides's Avatar
    Sadly, in the last few months I'm REALLY seeing a dying WM platform. Releasing their new flagships with little fanfare, high price, buggy (and definitely not ready for release) software, ditching the flashy colors that Lumia have been known for, keep releasing new (and sometimes better) apps on iOS and Android and at the same time delaying the release of W10M.

    It seems that everything that MS did right with their "100% own" Lumias (640/XL) was ignored and released their flagships without caring at all cause "Panos' phone is coming", all of these is killing WM, they are dissapointing the hardcore fans and MS doesn't seem to be the band playing until the sink on this ship.
    Last edited by asturides; 01-27-2016 at 12:37 PM.
    mirondanro and Kram Sacul like this.
    01-27-2016 12:08 PM
  10. EBUK's Avatar
    He's on a year hiatus, remember? I'm guessing he won't actually come back... hence why he could care less about using an iphone
    That doesn't make sense. He COULD care less about using an iPhone? Shouldn't that be "COULDN'T care less about using a Window Phone"?

    Whatever, he can use whatever device he chooses. Freedom of expression...
    01-27-2016 12:09 PM
  11. YanivC's Avatar
    So whats wrong with him using an iPhone. He cant control the plethora of developers out there. If he could, then he would have forced them to make all the apps he needs; but he doesn't, so he cant.
    If he's on his own personal time he "should be able to use/do whatever he wants to. I can understand when you say hes the icon and what he does has a direct effect, but honestly, he is the father of the device, not G-d. Give him credit for creating a truly wonderful phone, but he cannot force anyone to develop for it. Just look at Palm, that was beautiful too and look what happened there. Besides, it just makes him better versed with the competition ;)
    jmagwp and jmshub like this.
    01-27-2016 12:09 PM
  12. asturides's Avatar
    The "learn from competition" excuse is BS. Just because of how long they've been in this game. MS should mandate that their staff use windows phones as a daily driver NOT because its MS or MS product but as a way to identify flaws and drawbacks as a consumer and find solutions. Immediately they'll find the facebook, Skype, music, and twitter experiences to be sub par. What they can control they should be able to identify and fix right away because they're not satisfied with the experience instead of just showing up to work for 8hrs and then go home to their idroids and not care about it to the next day.
    In the case of Joe, it shouldn't even had to be mandated by MS, supposedly THIS is the plaform he loves, that he helped to create...

    I agree with you, if they are forced to be put through this sub-par experience they would do more to fix it and add better features.
    Last edited by asturides; 01-27-2016 at 12:36 PM. Reason: redacted better
    Kevin Rush and WillysJeepMan like this.
    01-27-2016 12:12 PM
  13. ahumeniy's Avatar
    Microsoft didn't want to sell their products, period. If that's what they wanted, they would have launched the Surface and the new Windows Phones worldwide but still I can't get a Surface here in Chile and I can't get a new Windows Phone because Windows Phone is leaving Chile but I could get the new iPhone and Macbook just weeks after they were released in the US.

    Because Microsoft doesn't want you to buy their products, Joe doesn't need to promote them.

    It's like someone in Microsoft is working to make it fail.
    01-27-2016 12:14 PM
  14. obakir's Avatar
    Hardly anyone in Microsoft uses their own phones full time, this goes back to Charlie Kindel when he worked at MS on the WP team and used an iphone as well. I'd bet Mr Nadella uses his iphone pro full time too. Get over it, we all know they dont give a toss about their own platform.
    I know developers at MS, none uses windows phone. That's the main problem with the platform. Other companies employees have a higher loyalty to their brand. Getting feedback from users and implementing them in upgrades is a very lengthy process. They have to use it everyday religiously to solve the issues we are having fast and efficiently. Otherwise we'll have to wait years for windows 10 platform to stabilize. (reboots during a phone call (!))
    mirondanro and Kevin Rush like this.
    01-27-2016 12:35 PM
  15. Joseph Avena's Avatar
    I know it seems wrong, however, if you don't use the competitors device real time, you probably can't make your on device experience better.
    Hoekie likes this.
    01-27-2016 12:42 PM
  16. Ek-Balam's Avatar
    So whats wrong with him using an iPhone. He cant control the plethora of developers out there. If he could, then he would have forced them to make all the apps he needs; but he doesn't, so he cant.
    If he's on his own personal time he "should be able to use/do whatever he wants to. I can understand when you say hes the icon and what he does has a direct effect, but honestly, he is the father of the device, not G-d. Give him credit for creating a truly wonderful phone, but he cannot force anyone to develop for it. Just look at Palm, that was beautiful too and look what happened there. Besides, it just makes him better versed with the competition ;)
    As stated prior, the over / under on this leans to the side of BS. Whether Joe decides to return from sabbatical or not, whether or not he is "on his own time, whether or not there is a plan of record to deep six Win Mobile - the guy needs to have enough freek'n smarts not to flaunt his iPhone use at this juncture (sig line suppression anyone). This just another in a resent long line of ultra stupid marketing and PR gaffes from Microsoft.
    It astounds me that that many people, with that much experience and corporate horse power can find the shear number of Marketing and PR disasters that Microsoft does........ All they need now is a viral pic of Bill Cosby rock'n a 950......
    Kevin Rush and Ian_Superfly like this.
    01-27-2016 12:44 PM
  17. WildKarrde's Avatar
    Yet Apple still has to state the obvious every year "the best iPhone ever".
    That's what the masses want to hear. Collective groups of people are generally stupid.
    Kevin Rush and Hoekie like this.
    01-27-2016 12:52 PM
  18. Lord Method Man's Avatar
    If he's on his own personal time he "should be able to use/do whatever he wants to.
    That's exactly the point. Its his personal time and he uses whatever he wants to, and he chooses to use iPhone.

    If one of the people in charge of Windows Mobile doesn't want to use Windows Mobile, what does that say about the platform?
    01-27-2016 01:05 PM
  19. jmagwp's Avatar
    So whats wrong with him using an iPhone. He cant control the plethora of developers out there. If he could, then he would have forced them to make all the apps he needs; but he doesn't, so he cant.
    If he's on his own personal time he "should be able to use/do whatever he wants to. I can understand when you say hes the icon and what he does has a direct effect, but honestly, he is the father of the device, not G-d. Give him credit for creating a truly wonderful phone, but he cannot force anyone to develop for it. Just look at Palm, that was beautiful too and look what happened there. Besides, it just makes him better versed with the competition ;)
    Stop being rational. You'll just confuse everyone.
    YanivC likes this.
    01-27-2016 01:06 PM
  20. arwars's Avatar
    I know it seems wrong, however, if you don't use the competitors device real time, you probably can't make your on device experience better.

    If you have a car with a flat tire, do you need to borrow your friends car to realize your car had a flat?

    Nope, you see the flat (market share) or you try to drive it (daily driver) and realize it doesn't work right (user experience).. and either fix it (NULL), call someone to fix it (NULL).. or you leave WM10 on the side of the road or in your garage...(the majority).

    As a WP/WM user, I waited for the fix.. but all the technicians couldn't fix the problem because they were too busy making the competitors experience better than mine. They cannot make a great phone with a great OS, they cannot grab market share, they cannot grab developer interest and they cannot make their products the best on their own platform.

    Funny how that worked out for them.
    01-27-2016 01:25 PM
  21. x I'm tc's Avatar
    If you have a car with a flat tire, do you need to borrow your friends car to realize your car had a flat?

    Nope, you see the flat (market share) or you try to drive it (daily driver) and realize it doesn't work right (user experience).. and either fix it (NULL), call someone to fix it (NULL).. or you leave WM10 on the side of the road or in your garage...(the majority).

    As a WP/WM user, I waited for the fix.. but all the technicians couldn't fix the problem because they were too busy making the competitors experience better than mine. They cannot make a great phone with a great OS, they cannot grab market share, they cannot grab developer interest and they cannot make their products the best on their own platform.

    Funny how that worked out for them.
    This is the bottom line. Windows Phone is bad. Is getting worse. And even MS can't keep their own employees on the platform.

    If, however, MS, realizing that Windows Phone is bad, dedicated resources to make it better and encouraged their own employees to use the platform then, those employees would be motivated to fix the problems that bother them. As they did, Windows Phone would stop being bad, start getting better, and even non employees might decide to start using the platform.

    Right now Windows Phone is in a viscous cycle and rapidly spiraling from obscurity to extinction.
    01-27-2016 02:00 PM
  22. dorelse's Avatar
    If you have a car with a flat tire, do you need to borrow your friends car to realize your car had a flat?

    Nope, you see the flat (market share) or you try to drive it (daily driver) and realize it doesn't work right (user experience).. and either fix it (NULL), call someone to fix it (NULL).. or you leave WM10 on the side of the road or in your garage...(the majority).

    As a WP/WM user, I waited for the fix.. but all the technicians couldn't fix the problem because they were too busy making the competitors experience better than mine. They cannot make a great phone with a great OS, they cannot grab market share, they cannot grab developer interest and they cannot make their products the best on their own platform.

    Funny how that worked out for them.
    Very good analogy...it would appear that the best Microsoft mobile experience is on the iPhone. I think Paul Thurrott even said that (somewhat) jokingly, but its true!

    I have a Samsung Galaxy S6 128GB and an iPhone 6 sitting around. I think its time to switch my wife off of her Lumia 640 to the iPhone and I'll use the craptastic Galaxy. I just don't see this improving in the short term, because, like we all know...they're too busy making great apps on iOS & Android.
    arwars likes this.
    01-27-2016 02:05 PM
  23. Riopato's Avatar
    Not knowing what the competition is doing right with their products is hurting this platform. Doesn't anyone realise that Microsoft is the only company that's sharing their services and apps across their competitor's devices? Belfiore is dong something that Balmer should've mandated from the start. Maybe we would've gotten a mobile phone os that's hasn't been rebooted 3 different times. Joe has mentioned that he is also using Android and palm. Where's the out range about that?
    Hoekie likes this.
    01-27-2016 02:07 PM
  24. arwars's Avatar
    Not knowing what the competition is doing right with their products is hurting this platform. Doesn't anyone realise that Microsoft is the only company that's sharing their services and apps across their competitor's devices? Belfiore is dong something that Balmer should've mandated from the start. Maybe we would've gotten a mobile phone os that's hasn't been rebooted 3 different times. Joe has mentioned that he is also using Android and palm. Where's the out range about that?
    Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

    Not caring how the users are suffering from your own product. Not making your product the best and giving away the best of your product to the other platform. Lack of great hardware. Not being able to attract developer attention because your product sucks and goes through continual reboots is what is hurting the platform.

    The WP8 on the 1520 was the closest they ever got to getting it right, even with the items WP8 was lacking and the phantom touch of the 1520.

    Its that lack of a hardware upgrade path (for YEARS), the "coming soon" that never comes, and a OS DOWNGRADE that put an iPhone in my pocket.

    NOW I have the BEST of MS, and it's on a iPhone.
    01-27-2016 02:15 PM
  25. Harrie-S's Avatar
    Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

    Not caring how the users are suffering from your own product. Not making your product the best and giving away the best of your product to the other platform. Lack of great hardware. Not being able to attract developer attention because your product sucks and goes through continual reboots is what is hurting the platform.

    The 1520 on WP 8 was the closest they ever got to getting it right, even with the items WP8 was lacking and the phantom touch of the 1520.

    Its that lack of a hardware upgrade path (for YEARS), the "coming soon" that never comes, and a OS DOWNGRADE that put an iPhone in my pocket. NOW I have the BEST of MS, and it's on a iPhone.
    You have now a device you like and the apps you like. So why are you still complaining?
    Hoekie and Riopato like this.
    01-27-2016 02:23 PM
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