02-21-2016 02:59 AM
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  1. Iosif Mila's Avatar
    I've been working in marketing for many years. At this point I can assure all of you that "Windows Phone" as a brand has been severely compromised in the last few days aka "its dead" (the brand).

    Microsoft has to come up with something different for the new Surface Phone. They can't just say it has "Windows Phone", because the name/brand is "dead".

    So Microsoft needs a fresh start. Let's call it "The new Surface OS", a lite version of Windows 10, made for mobile phones, with support for both ARM and x86, runs full desktop apps when conected to a dock, runs UWP apps when in mobile mode.

    The future is Surface OS and it really sounds much better.
    01-31-2016 08:37 AM
  2. escobar's Avatar
    No more rebranding, no more chances, no more 'coming soon'. It's dead, deal with it.
    01-31-2016 08:39 AM
  3. mjyumping's Avatar
    I've been working in marketing for many years. At this point I can assure all of you that "Windows Phone" as a brand has been severely compromised in the last few days aka "its dead" (the brand).

    Microsoft has to come up with something different for the new Surface Phone. They can't just say it has "Windows Phone", because the name/brand is "dead".

    So Microsoft needs a fresh start. Let's call it "The new Surface OS", a lite version of Windows 10, made for mobile phones, with support for both ARM and x86, runs full desktop apps when conected to a dock, runs UWP apps when in mobile mode.

    The future is Surface OS and it really sounds much better.
    No, Microsoft I think is on the right direction of using Windows 10 mobile as the name of the OS. It's probably have more chance to grow considering the desktop version is already used by millions (or even billions) of devices worldwide. The name also follows Microsoft's plan the unite the desktop and mobile as possible.
    01-31-2016 08:49 AM
  4. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    No more rebranding, no more chances, no more 'coming soon'. It's dead, deal with it.
    The future is never set in stone, and I sure hope you are wrong with that blunt statement. I never expected windows 10 mobile to kick ios and android from the top of the mountain, just take a big enough slice of the pie to show profit. I'll use it as long as Microsoft is supporting it.
    01-31-2016 08:53 AM
  5. escobar's Avatar
    The future is never set in stone, and I sure hope you are wrong with that blunt statement. I never expected windows 10 mobile to kick ios and android from the top of the mountain, just take a big enough slice of the pie to show profit. I'll use it as long as Microsoft is supporting it.
    I hope I'm wrong too.
    01-31-2016 09:01 AM
  6. Iosif Mila's Avatar
    "Windows on a phone" has a very bad reputation. Meanwhile, everyone is calling it "dead". Furthermore, the internet is full with bad "walking dead" mockups and Microsoft is acting like nothing happened.

    The brand is dead and nothing can change that at this moment.
    01-31-2016 09:03 AM
  7. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    "Windows on a phone" has a very bad reputation. Meanwhile, everyone is calling it "dead". Furthermore, the internet is full with bad "walking dead" mockups and Microsoft is acting like nothing happened.

    The brand is dead and nothing can change that at this moment.
    "IF" Ms gets their collective act together you will be surprised what several rave reviews from a few reputable tech sites (not fan sites) can do for a products reputation. Everything lies on Microsoft's shoulders now. ;)
    01-31-2016 09:25 AM
  8. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    The MSN Surface Lumia X Pro with Windows 10 Whatever. Now with even more disappointment. Available in 3 eye-catching colors: black, white and black. Coming soon.
    xandros9 likes this.
    01-31-2016 08:40 PM
  9. msirapian's Avatar
    I beg to differ here. Microsoft have driven the sales to a lower level, for many reasons. Amongst which one is probably to give OEM more space.

    I think Windows 10 mobile is a great notion, but as it's not released we can't see the big picture. But imagine that 2 variants of W10 mobile are out, ARM and x86. And Microsoft has done everything to turn the API agnostic to the variants. UWP that is. So you write your UWP, and it runs on W10 PC, W10M ARM, W10M x86, etc.

    Of course W10M x86 allows running x86 apps, but then Windows 10 mobile, as a brand, makes sense, it's Windows 10 on mobile devices. No matter the CPU, because consumers, users don't even know what a chipset is, or what powers their device.

    Surface phone (if it's a x86 device) would be one device, a flagship but only for some users (entreprise). OEM converting their Android devices to W10M (I look at you Xiaomi) would invest the ARM branch. The sales volume would be essentially ARM, but the locomotive could be Surface Phone.

    That would make a lot more sense to me. Microsoft wouldn't threaten other OEM (which could also release x86 devices, but wouldn't be forced to). And nope, it wouldn't be a iOS = iPhone model, but rather Windows everywhere.

    Because one point that most Panay fans are missing here: The Surface line is a huge success, but it doesn't support all the Windows ecosystem alone. Thanks God there a lot of engaged OEM, and Microsoft are even proudly advertising them. Surface is just Microsoft's expression of what hardware could or should be.

    So a Surface Phone would ALSO be primus inter pares in the mobile world. Not the only device sporting a mobile version of Windows 10.

    That's why I don't think Surface OS would be a nice rebranding, although I can see where you're coming from.

    Anyway, we need to see how W10M is released, the different branches coming, etc. As Nadella said (and also that excellent Windows Central article), Microsoft's strategy in mobile is not limited to sales number only. And we'll see what is the precise strategy for Windows on mobile devices once that damn OS is out :D
    02-01-2016 03:05 AM
  10. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Anyway, we need to see how W10M is released, the different branches coming, etc. As Nadella said (and also that excellent Windows Central article), Microsoft's strategy in mobile is not limited to sales number only. And we'll see what is the precise strategy for Windows on mobile devices once that damn OS is out :D
    Um... W10M is released. L950 shipped with it and so to will the L550. So we have a fairly good idea what their plans are at the moment. Unless you're talking about the upgrades to the old hardware which irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

    So top end phones get all the goodies. Low end will get the basics. Usual thing.

    The OS will be in perpetual upgrade like the OS on your computer. Either for improved performance, patches or new features.

    There's nothing that we really don't know at this moment when it comes to W10M unless they add some extra features that people feel that are 'missing'.

    So not entirely sure what you mean by 'when it's released we'll know more'. How much more do we need to know? W10 is on laptops. It's coming to Xbox. It's on phones. It's on tablets (all the recent Surface tablets have it). What more do you need to know?
    02-01-2016 06:48 AM
  11. ajayden's Avatar
    There's nothing that we really don't know at this moment when it comes to W10M unless they add some extra features that people feel that are 'missing'.
    Continuum was a surprise feature which most people did not predict and did not know its coming. So in tech we cant say what will pop up.
    02-01-2016 09:26 AM
  12. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Continuum was a surprise feature which most people did not predict and did not know its coming. So in tech we cant say what will pop up.
    That's why I said 'at this moment'. We don't know the future but if it's anything more than Continuum then it's going to need more hardware anyway.

    Also, Continuum wasn't that big of a surprise with the idea of 'universal apps'. I still think Continuum is rather niche too.
    02-01-2016 09:42 AM
  13. msirapian's Avatar

    So not entirely sure what you mean by 'when it's released we'll know more'. How much more do we need to know? W10 is on laptops. It's coming to Xbox. It's on phones. It's on tablets (all the recent Surface tablets have it). What more do you need to know?
    What I mean is, to quote Gabriel Aul : Windows 10 Mobile is out when Terry Myerson announces it. Yes 950/550/XL are out and they sport W10M, but obviously, it's still a Release Candidate. No advertisement (nothing here in France, where Lumia is popular, during Xmas, etc.). When somebody asked Gabe about when W10 is out, he said "I'm the preview guy, look at Terry for that".

    Another hint: TuneIn. The new UWP works great on my 535 and 640 on W10M. But, surprised by the fact I can't install it on 950, I've reached out TuneIn. "Our Mobile UWP isn't released yet, be patient". Hey, I have it on my Lumias. "Nope, it's a beta and will be released soon".

    Obvisouly, except LumiaVoices and the 950/XL/550 consumers, everybody is acting *as if* Windows 10 Mobile wasn't released yet. No announcement, no article on MS/Windows blog, etc.

    That's what I meant. Which story, which kind of context will be announced by Microsoft when they "Hey, Windows 10 Mobile is here".
    02-01-2016 10:40 AM
  14. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    What I mean is, to quote Gabriel Aul : Windows 10 Mobile is out when Terry Myerson announces it. Yes 950/550/XL are out and they sport W10M, but obviously, it's still a Release Candidate. No advertisement (nothing here in France, where Lumia is popular, during Xmas, etc.). When somebody asked Gabe about when W10 is out, he said "I'm the preview guy, look at Terry for that".

    Another hint: TuneIn. The new UWP works great on my 535 and 640 on W10M. But, surprised by the fact I can't install it on 950, I've reached out TuneIn. "Our Mobile UWP isn't released yet, be patient". Hey, I have it on my Lumias. "Nope, it's a beta and will be released soon".

    Obvisouly, except LumiaVoices and the 950/XL/550 consumers, everybody is acting *as if* Windows 10 Mobile wasn't released yet. No announcement, no article on MS/Windows blog, etc.

    That's what I meant. Which story, which kind of context will be announced by Microsoft when they "Hey, Windows 10 Mobile is here".
    If it isn't 'officially released' then why have they already started rolling it out to older devices? Not the preview either I might add. Official roll outs.

    W10M was officially released with the L950. You can agree or disagree with that but that's the reality. That's the way MS has always done it, new phones get new OS then the roll out to older phones.

    W10M isn't making a big splash anywhere. Also I have no idea why the L950 isn't being advertised anywhere. I can make assumptions but that's all they would be, just like you did.
    02-01-2016 11:34 AM
  15. msirapian's Avatar
    Yes assumptions, including your take on "official release" against "possible official announcement". Typical Microsoft move is also to have this kind of grey situation, "officially out but not totally".

    I wouldn't be as affirmative as you are, as I don't know more than you do about Microsoft's plan. A wiser move is to wait & see, I'd be happy to recognise my guess was wrong. I'm not interested in a "my reality is more real than yours" discussion lol ^_^
    02-01-2016 12:01 PM
  16. Leonel Funes's Avatar
    No more rebranding, no more chances, no more 'coming soon'. It's dead, deal with it.
    I agree with no more rebranding (Windows, Windows Mobile have a connection. Surface OS? A brand new, just starting, no apps yet OS? To the eyes of the consumer. Not everyone is up to date with these things.)

    I disagree that it's dead. Apparently, others are producing phones with W10M, just what Microsoft needs. And we're a really loyal group, doubt we're going to be abandoned. And it's part of WaaS, needs Windows wherever possible.
    svknet and jlzimmerman like this.
    02-01-2016 12:27 PM
  17. christenmartin's Avatar
    What I mean is, to quote Gabriel Aul : Windows 10 Mobile is out when Terry Myerson announces it. Yes 950/550/XL are out and they sport W10M, but obviously, it's still a Release Candidate. No advertisement (nothing here in France, where Lumia is popular, during Xmas, etc.). When somebody asked Gabe about when W10 is out, he said "I'm the preview guy, look at Terry for that".

    Another hint: TuneIn. The new UWP works great on my 535 and 640 on W10M. But, surprised by the fact I can't install it on 950, I've reached out TuneIn. "Our Mobile UWP isn't released yet, be patient". Hey, I have it on my Lumias. "Nope, it's a beta and will be released soon".

    Obvisouly, except LumiaVoices and the 950/XL/550 consumers, everybody is acting *as if* Windows 10 Mobile wasn't released yet. No announcement, no article on MS/Windows blog, etc.

    That's what I meant. Which story, which kind of context will be announced by Microsoft when they "Hey, Windows 10 Mobile is here".
    This is an interesting take. You do get the feeling that the entire 950 situation is like a soft opening in a restaurant. Very plain phone, little marketing, etc....

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    msirapian likes this.
    02-01-2016 03:30 PM
  18. kwright62's Avatar
    Windows phone may be dead (and I'm not in that mindset) but phones that run Windows will be here soon. Real Windows. These phones will be a big part of the marketplace.
    02-01-2016 06:58 PM
  19. msirapian's Avatar
    Windows phone may be dead (and I'm not in that mindset) but phones that run Windows will be here soon. Real Windows. These phones will be a big part of the marketplace.
    I guess you mean x86 Windows. But Windows 10 Mobile is getting closer and closer to the "real Windows". I think it will end as "yet another variant" of Windows. Unlike Windows RT. Continuum shows that: the outlook app I have, the settings menu I have on my 950 ALSO embed the "real Windows" version, thanks to the UWP.

    So "Windows" mobile devices may be a big part of the marketplace. Don't know if "only real Windows" (=desktop version) on phones will be a big part of the marketplace (not a universal need, etc.)
    02-02-2016 03:31 AM
  20. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Windows phone may be dead (and I'm not in that mindset) but phones that run Windows will be here soon. Real Windows. These phones will be a big part of the marketplace.
    I guess you mean x86 Windows. But Windows 10 Mobile is getting closer and closer to the "real Windows". I think it will end as "yet another variant" of Windows. Unlike Windows RT. Continuum shows that: the outlook app I have, the settings menu I have on my 950 ALSO embed the "real Windows" version, thanks to the UWP.

    So "Windows" mobile devices may be a big part of the marketplace. Don't know if "only real Windows" (=desktop version) on phones will be a big part of the marketplace (not a universal need, etc.)
    We'll let's get things straight. Windows Phone as an OS is dead. The brand is dead. Windows Mobile is what we have now.

    The only way a phone with a a full computer OS on it would become popular is if it is first released in emerging markets at a price point they can afford. It would be this ability that would catapult Windows Mobile in those markets. However, in our markets the idea of having a full computer OS on a phone is niche. Not many people will go out of their way to use it. It would come in 'handy' from time to time but that's it. Unless it has the same level of capabilities as a laptop it won't attract sales people or people in enterprise markets.

    I don't see phones replacing computers in offices any time soon either as security is very important to IT professionals.

    For some a full OS on a phone will be fantastic for them but the vast majority don't care and don't need it.
    02-02-2016 03:51 AM
  21. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    I've been working in marketing for many years. At this point I can assure all of you that "Windows Phone" as a brand has been severely compromised in the last few days aka "its dead" (the brand).

    Microsoft has to come up with something different for the new Surface Phone. They can't just say it has "Windows Phone", because the name/brand is "dead".

    So Microsoft needs a fresh start. Let's call it "The new Surface OS", a lite version of Windows 10, made for mobile phones, with support for both ARM and x86, runs full desktop apps when conected to a dock, runs UWP apps when in mobile mode.

    The future is Surface OS and it really sounds much better.
    Mmm...no.
    libra89, xandros9 and Kram Sacul like this.
    02-02-2016 06:35 AM
  22. xandros9's Avatar
    A reboot and a rename is the last thing this platform needs. We can't say it's the brand because right now, it's quality is the major issue regardless of its public image.

    Also Surface OS sounds worse than Windows IMHO in that it's specific and throws out any continuity. it's like Apple going back to iPhone OS.
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and jmshub like this.
    02-02-2016 09:01 AM
  23. constantreader16's Avatar
    We'll let's get things straight. Windows Phone as an OS is dead. The brand is dead. Windows Mobile is what we have now.

    The only way a phone with a a full computer OS on it would become popular is if it is first released in emerging markets at a price point they can afford. It would be this ability that would catapult Windows Mobile in those markets. However, in our markets the idea of having a full computer OS on a phone is niche. Not many people will go out of their way to use it. It would come in 'handy' from time to time but that's it. Unless it has the same level of capabilities as a laptop it won't attract sales people or people in enterprise markets.

    I don't see phones replacing computers in offices any time soon either as security is very important to IT professionals.

    For some a full OS on a phone will be fantastic for them but the vast majority don't care and don't need it.
    You could make an argument that the Surface as a tablet and a full computer was supposed to only appeal to a "niche" market, but look at how well that's done. It's transformed the market so much that both Google and Apple have made their own attempts at it. The MSFT strategy isn't to win the current game, it's to redefine the game, something the Surface has done really well.
    02-02-2016 03:26 PM
  24. svknet's Avatar
    I suggest MS should give W10M atleast 12 months (after officially released to old handsets) to see market share and reaction. In this 12 months MS should also flood markets with handsets of it own brands as well as from other OEMs (cheap cost).
    If still W10M market share remains low, then declare its dead, and move out of mobile OS business.
    02-02-2016 11:22 PM
  25. Mikeandhis8x's Avatar
    I'm amazed at how nobody understands msfts mobile strategy. Clearly they are killing windows phone in exchange for Windows 10 as a universal OS for everything, including mobile. Surface OS just separates the ecosystem. You may work in marketing but you're no business man.
    02-16-2016 11:07 PM
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