05-05-2016 08:45 AM
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  1. Norris Rochelle's Avatar
    I've come to the Windows Central community today to ask you guys and gals a simple question. Microsoft or Apple? This questions covers everything pertaining to the two companies including Phones, Hardware, Software, Security and the overall potential of the companies products. Microsoft seems to be dominating the computer market while apple seems to be dominating the mobile market. Now a days it seems as if a majority of Apple computer users buy Apple products to either be in sync, familiarity, productivity or appeal. People who buy Microsoft computers usually buy them to modify them, be productive, program and many more things. While this may sound a bit one sided from some angles it's not intentional. Apple contains the largest percentage of the mobile market while Android and Windows Phone follow behind it. Apple's iPhone sells because of how trendy it is, the simplicity, marketing and appeal. At the time Microsoft is having a hard time gaining market share with Windows Phone but I believe it's only because of Microsoft not promoting Windows Phone properly as well as some minor setbacks. When it comes to the security of both operating systems many people say that Mac's are immune to hostile threats only to be proven wrong. Windows computers are of course susceptible to attacks but these attacks can be reduced on both systems. How do you feel about this? What's your take on it?
    03-29-2016 06:55 PM
  2. Allen Rhodes's Avatar
    Microsoft dominates the world of personal computing. Android dominates phones. Apple dominates lemmings/hipsters. Their hardware is nice, no doubt or conversation about it, but flawed like EVERYTHING else. However, Apple's biggest product is the name itself due to marketing. If Microsoft had placed its product in the hands of every Kardashian and sports star, for free like Apple did, the mushed brained market that buys based on whos who having things would have come MS's way. Instead, we sit with a **** poor market share for phones. Hopefully that will increase in the next few years.
    03-29-2016 08:33 PM
  3. fdalbor's Avatar
    Have to agree, Android has over 80% of the smartphone market. How can anyone say Apple dominates it. Very strong second, but unless you are using some strange math, Android dominates mobile, and probably always will.
    03-29-2016 08:45 PM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    If Microsoft had placed its product in the hands of every Kardashian and sports star, for free like Apple did, the mushed brained market that buys based on whos who having things would have come MS's way.
    Apple provides an experience worth marketing. Microsoft does as well... in desktop. Not so much in mobile. All the marketing in the world won't solve the issues Microsoft's mobile ecosystem offers at the moment.
    03-29-2016 10:08 PM
  5. Allen Rhodes's Avatar
    Apple provides an experience worth marketing. Microsoft does as well... in desktop. Not so much in mobile. All the marketing in the world won't solve the issues Microsoft's mobile ecosystem offers at the moment.
    I beg to differ. As an iPhone 6 owner(forced by work), their experience is barely what's marketed. They market flashy pictures and celebrity endorsements. My iPhone freezes, reboots, and apps crash(even more so) than on my 950xl. Apple clearly has a miles head start on marketing and MS will never catch up, barring iPhones starting to kill puppies and babies. Apples latest adds to their phones aren't their tech, they just market it as their tech. Apples "experience" is popularity, plain and simple. Again, ZERO argument can be made against it unless you are a fanboy. I've owned numerous iPhones from the 3G to the 6. They are nearly identical, minus a few updates. Polishing a turd at this point.
    03-29-2016 10:16 PM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    I beg to differ.
    I expected as much. That's fine. There is a reason that no single product has 100% of the market. We are all different, and we all have different needs, wants, tastes, and situations. But why do Apple's high priced products continue to sell like gangbusters, year after year, if the experience is so awful? It is not all due to marketing, or fanboyism, or whatever other tag you want to put on their users. Believe me, if it cost that much for an experience like you describe, they would lose their enthusiasm quickly! It's happening here.

    Users on this forum, who are or were WP fans, are leaving. If they're already fans of Microsoft's products, why are they leaving if the experience is so much better here?

    Trust me, I'm the furtherest thing from an Apple fanboy. If you've seen my other posts, you'll know that I have a healthy mix of all the products. I'm as objective as anyone you'll ever meet. I have zero loyalty to any of the big 3 tech companies' products. In fact, if it were possible rate loyalty with a negative number, that's what mine would be.
    03-29-2016 10:44 PM
  7. xandros9's Avatar
    A year or two ago I could easily claim Microsoft's issue was poor marketing.

    Now, not anymore yet. They've made decent strides though.

    FWIW, iOS and WP8.x were the most solid mobile OSes I have had the pleasure of using.
    03-29-2016 11:17 PM
  8. Nicholas Maguire's Avatar
    I expected as much. That's fine. There is a reason that no single product has 100% of the market. We are all different, and we all have different needs, wants, tastes, and situations. But why do Apple's high priced products continue to sell like gangbusters, year after year, if the experience is so awful? It is not all due to marketing, or fanboyism, or whatever other tag you want to put on their users. Believe me, if it cost that much for an experience like you describe, they would lose their enthusiasm quickly! It's happening here.

    Users on this forum, who are or were WP fans, are leaving. If they're already fans of Microsoft's products, why are they leaving if the experience is so much better here?

    Trust me, I'm the furtherest thing from an Apple fanboy. If you've seen my other posts, you'll know that I have a healthy mix of all the products. I'm as objective as anyone you'll ever meet. I have zero loyalty to any of the big 3 tech companies' products. In fact, if it were possible rate loyalty with a negative number, that's what mine would be.
    People leave because "the grass is greener on the other side". iOS has just as many issues as W10 mobile. I've heard of major app crashes, random reboots, and the newest bug in iOS 9.3 where links in Safari won't open. All software has problems. The only "real" issue WP currently has is due to apps and a lack of marketing.
    03-29-2016 11:19 PM
  9. Pete's Avatar
    I think it's fair to say that Apple are very good at the psychology of consumers, building brand loyalty is very important to them and leads Apple users to continue buying Apple products (locking them into the ecosystem helps here). They product pretty premium standard hardware and let the "prestige" sell the products - people who buy Apple products see themselves as being affluent.

    Microsoft learnt a long time ago (probably before the Nokia acquisition) that chasing market share was a pointless exercise, which is why there's not a huge spend on marketing. Windows Phone remains the enthusiasts choice (or the choice for those who don't want Apple/Android). The app situation is an issue, but for those of us who are old enough to be wowed by SMS messaging, we can survive perfectly well without snapchat.
    Laura Knotek, tgp, jmshub and 11 others like this.
    03-30-2016 01:20 AM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    One has to give Apple credit for the way it handles OS updates. There are no issues with waiting for carrier approval, which might never happen if one uses a Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile device or an Android device from an OEM that is branded to a particular carrier. Apple releases iOS updates, and everyone gets them at the same time without any interference from the carriers.

    Apple also announces new devices and sells them a few days later. They don't announce iPhones, only to see customers wait weeks or months until the devices are available for sale online or in stores.
    jmshub, a5cent, Muessig and 17 others like this.
    03-30-2016 01:29 AM
  11. Muessig's Avatar
    Apple definitely know the needs/wants of their loyal customers and they are excellent at marketing to the world - showing off clean and stylish products that literally just work as advertised out of the box. I have to use Apple's at work every day, and they do just work and have very few issues from day to day. If you do have any issues you have to pay for it (a co-worker's Apple Watch screen smashed through no fault of his own but the only way he could get a replacement is paying 180, which of course he did).

    I've used their iPhones previously and they perform well and you don't see many issues with them through daily use. I think Microsoft are taking a different approach to Apple though - they are being overly open with their development in an effort to appeal to the hardcore Microsoft fans that will follow their development over time, and if they can win us over with a user experience that we are all in love with they have people that will once again spread word of mouth over the Windows Mobile platform.

    Once they get to that point, if they can, they have a platform that they can actually market to the world. The struggle is getting there.
    03-30-2016 01:41 PM
  12. jmshub's Avatar
    The thing is that these three big companies in computing - Google, Microsoft, Apple, all look a lot alike in the end users' eyes, because they compete on a lot of things. They all have smartphone OS, PC OS, personal cloud storage, office productivity suites, and much more in common. However, these things are prioritized vastly differently in the different companies based on their priorities.

    iOS IS Apple. A ridiculous amount of their overall revenue comes from iOS, particularly on phones. So, that is the kingdom that Apple holds most dear, and it is where the majority of their development will be focused.

    Google is perhaps the most diverse of these three, but their cash cow is search, and the ad revenue that they generate off of it. So, again, Google's specific focus is always going to be how to get people to use Google search in novel and ever engrossing ways.

    Microsoft is harder to nail down. Their core product that most people know them for is Windows, but they actually generate more revenue with cloud services like Azure, and Office.

    While this is slightly tangential to the thread, I'm trying to say that each of these companies have their own priority level for developing their mobile OS, for instance, and direct comparison is therefore rather difficult.
    03-30-2016 01:52 PM
  13. MDK22's Avatar
    Have to agree, Android has over 80% of the smartphone market. How can anyone say Apple dominates it. Very strong second, but unless you are using some strange math, Android dominates mobile, and probably always will.
    Android may have the number of devices, but in $$ - Apple DOMINATES the mobile world (right now).
    Most Android manufacturers (even Samsung) struggle to make any significant profit.
    Microsoft may be able to turn the corner (garner some significant mobile share), @ some future time, BUT we're talking @ least 2 years.
    I actually still love my Lumia 1520, don't know how they're going to upstage that (Surface Phone @ 5.8" ?), waiting for Windows 10 (for mobile) to mature.
    03-30-2016 04:19 PM
  14. fdalbor's Avatar
    In $, yes. In everything else no. Apple must have some whodo vodo over people to get them to buy their expensive phones when a group of Android phones do the same thing for less money. As Spock used to say humans are a strange species.
    03-30-2016 05:12 PM
  15. MDK22's Avatar
    In $, yes. In everything else no. Apple must have some whodo vodo over people to get them to buy their expensive phones when a group of Android phones do the same thing for less money. As Spock used to say humans are a strange species.
    Personally, I'd rather have 33% of the market, for 75% of the profit.
    ... and you ARE correct, I don't see the cachet.
    A major Android exploit could see the rise of iOS, or Windows mobile, depending on WHEN (not IF) ...
    03-30-2016 05:48 PM
  16. xandros9's Avatar
    Personally, I'd rather have 33% of the market, for 75% of the profit.
    ... and you ARE correct, I don't see the cachet.
    A major Android exploit could see the rise of iOS, or Windows mobile, depending on WHEN (not IF) ...
    And we've already seen sizeable security issues come to light in Android-land. The response has improved, but is still far from optimal...
    libra89 and prasath1234 like this.
    03-30-2016 06:27 PM
  17. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I consider Apple a tech/fashion company. If you care about fashion you will likely have an iphone I mean look at their watch bands, they are all about fashion, so many different types it's insane. And they have them for the Hollywood stars too if they want to pony up 10k. When the apple car comes out it will gain insane popularity. They don't even have to race google/microsoft. As long as people aware they are making one, they will wait. I mean people put apple stickers on their cars. Apple could have a clothing line too. And so apple will always own that rich fashionable sector.
    mdefran65, Robert Roger and dgrn23 like this.
    03-30-2016 06:49 PM
  18. jdballard's Avatar
    Users on this forum, who are or were WP fans, are leaving. If they're already fans of Microsoft's products, why are they leaving if the experience is so much better here?
    What follows is purely speculative guesses by me.

    I think there's some sort of psychology behind this. I am a fan of MS - especially of late. Even with all their missteps, they seem to be moving in the right direction. I've made my living in the MS ecosystem since VB 4.0 days, including .NET/C#, MS CRM, SQL Server, and lots of other stuff. I actually think that Windows mobile is the best OS out there (not accounting for the app gap - just the OS) and I even think that in the long haul the universal app strategy may pay off, but even I am flirting with Android. Why? Because who wants to be the 1% (in phones, I'd gladly be in the 1% of income earners!)? Who wants to use a platform that everyone keeps saying is dead? Who wants to use a platform that has been re-written three times now, even though you know this should be the last time because it's finally the same codebase as "big" Windows? I think all the little hits from everywhere just kind of mentally defeat you and you want to give in.

    Maybe it's just psychobabble, but I think it's probably why some of the die-hards, like me, have left or are considering leaving even when they love the OS.
    tgp, libra89, Laura Knotek and 6 others like this.
    03-30-2016 07:49 PM
  19. jdballard's Avatar
    Google is perhaps the most diverse of these three, but their cash cow is search, and the ad revenue that they generate off of it. So, again, Google's specific focus is always going to be how to get people to use Google search in novel and ever engrossing ways.
    Diverse in what way? They have a lot of products, but as you point out it mostly comes down to search. In general, I would say MS is the most diverse with their presence in enterprise across a wide variety of products & services as well as the consumer market.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-30-2016 07:57 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    What follows is purely speculative guesses by me.

    I think there's some sort of psychology behind this. I am a fan of MS - especially of late. Even with all their missteps, they seem to be moving in the right direction. I've made my living in the MS ecosystem since VB 4.0 days, including .NET/C#, MS CRM, SQL Server, and lots of other stuff. I actually think that Windows mobile is the best OS out there (not accounting for the app gap - just the OS) and I even think that in the long haul the universal app strategy may pay off, but even I am flirting with Android. Why? Because who wants to be the 1% (in phones, I'd gladly be in the 1% of income earners!)? Who wants to use a platform that everyone keeps saying is dead? Who wants to use a platform that has been re-written three times now, even though you know this should be the last time because it's finally the same codebase as "big" Windows? I think all the little hits from everywhere just kind of mentally defeat you and you want to give in.

    Maybe it's just psychobabble, but I think it's probably why some of the die-hards, like me, have left or are considering leaving even when they love the OS.
    Yes I think you're correct. I agree about the 1%; there is a time and a place for being unique, but the smartphone is not one of them. There is no advantage to it IRL, and plenty of disadvantages.

    You mentioned you are a fan of Microsoft. I am as well... in certain areas. I have several Microsoft MCP plaques on the wall, and I make a living supporting a Dynamics ERP product, which by nature also includes SQL Server. (One of my favorite tasks is to create SSRS reports!) However, I see no reason for that to mean I have to be all in with everything Microsoft. I guess I have a hard time understanding why some people feel like they need to be either all in or nothing. With the cloud being a huge part of today's ecosystems, there is little to no advantage to sticking with one company's products. I can start a Word document on my PC, and pick it up where I left off on my Macbook, Android phone or tablet, iPad, or Surface 3.
    libra89, Laura Knotek and Bloobed like this.
    03-30-2016 08:11 PM
  21. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Apple is dominating both, the mobile and PC markets. In mobile Google takes the leftovers, in PCs Microsoft takes the leftovers.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-30-2016 08:15 PM
  22. pankaj981's Avatar
    Apple is dominating...... PC markets
    Umm in what dimension?
    Last edited by pankaj981; 03-31-2016 at 12:49 AM.
    03-30-2016 09:17 PM
  23. Guytronic's Avatar
    Apple is dominating both, the mobile and PC markets. In mobile Google takes the leftovers, in PCs Microsoft takes the leftovers.
    I would say unfounded at best.
    03-30-2016 09:32 PM
  24. jmshub's Avatar
    Diverse in what way? They have a lot of products, but as you point out it mostly comes down to search. In general, I would say MS is the most diverse with their presence in enterprise across a wide variety of products & services as well as the consumer market.
    Microsoft probably has more diversity in profitable business ventures. Google has unbelievable diversity in their products, although a lot of them are almost blue-sky research projects that do not contribute to their bottom line.
    03-30-2016 09:44 PM
  25. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Umm in what dimension?
    Apple has 18% of market share in mobile and 8% of market share in PCs.
    In both markets Apple dominates the high-end segment and takes almost all the profits.

    Most people buys Android and Windows devices because they can't afford Apple products.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-30-2016 11:57 PM
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