Why doesn't someone at MS just refute all the "W10M is Dead" claims?

[RumoredNow]

I always wondered that rather than writing off over $7 billion, why didn't MS sibsidize the windows phones? Why couldn't they sell their phones at half the price? Had they suffered losses? Yes but only marginal, and insignificant compared to the write-off. Would they have gained market shares? Absolutely. Would that have tempted more OEMs? Most likely.

How would undercutting the price any other OEM could match attract new manufacturers? Counter-intuitive. MS takes a loss on every phone they sell so any new maker must also run at a loss to compete for consumer dollars in the same space...

 

[anon(6078578)]

How would undercutting the price any other OEM could match attract new manufacturers? Counter-intuitive. MS takes a loss on every phone they sell so any new maker must also run at a loss to compete for consumer dollars in the same space...

I agree. Even as someone who isn't a flagship buyer, price wasn't their problem, although I do think the Lumia 950/950XL should've been priced lower.

 

[FXi2]

The market wants larger devices and graphics wow people so that sells too. If they could people would carry something the size of their television in their pocket. But that said, larger screens have been wholly gobbled down and now the vendors are starting to foray into 6-7" devices and finding they are "desired". Meanwhile tiny phones are gradually becoming like flip phones, cute but nothing you'd really "use". I don't believe all that, but that's where the sentiment lies in the market. I think we benefit from choices, so I think large, medium, small with most fitting in the medium category is best overall. But heck, sentiments change.

Try to remember, everyone, that right now the margins are getting nasty and many OEM's aren't going to survive for many more years. Cutting devices is more a matter of that reflection and also with MS. They can subsidize a device but for how long? And with margins so low, it's hard to make back your money on future devices that you may sell. It's not that there aren't billions of dollars to be made, but you have to sell a lot of devices to get there. When you cut orders for parts your costs go up. Idle factories or labor and costs go up. Apple makes money but they give you half the features, no fast charging, no USB 3, no OLED in order to keep the margins up. But that's changing for them too and they know it. What everyone sees is that in 10 years you will buy a phone like you'd buy a small camera now. Go spend $100 pick your color and your brand and then who cares. The current pricing is like the last hurrah. OLED, for example, costs a fraction of what it once did. So anyone going in now hoping to make money later has a pretty serious strategy problem facing them. How to do that? But meanwhile if you make the software that can run on any chip and any device, you DO have an answer for when anyone wants to use it on any device. So the long term isn't totally glum, but it's not all roses either. You can have a future making software for any devices but how many manufacturers are going to be making devices at all and making any money doing it?

 

[Awhispersecho]

Mainly because what you and I and the fans consider Windows Mobile is different than what MS considers Windows Mobile. We think of phones and hardware, they think of software. Winows Mobile isn't dead. It's continually being updated as a software solution. This is how they can get away with not saying anything about WIndows Phone. Phones are dead, hardware wise, as far as they are concered. Even when (if) the "Surface Phone" comes out, they will not call it a phone, it will be a mobile device. I believe WIndows Mobile will end up being the new Windows Cloud service we are hearing about and that software will be on mid and lower end phones and tablets from other OEM's. Windows 10 with the adaptive shell will be on the Surface Phone.

Giving up on phone was a huge mistake, they had momentum back around the 1020, 1520 and 520 device time period. They had larger market share than iPhone is 14 countries or something like that and were growing in the US actually went from 2% to a little over 4% in a years time. They were as high as 14 % in other parts of the world. Mobile and phones are where the current and future consumer interest is and they blew it. Nadella really screwed this up. They may be looking to create a new market but it will never be near the size of the current sartphone market that they abandoned. The low tech, general person will have no interest in a 800-100 smartphone that doubles as your computer. They want their 640's 950's etc. Huge mistake that will really end up costing them and I believe will be the moment we will look back on that started the drastic change in MS and it's fortunes down the road.

But, as I said, Windows Mobile is not dead. It's constantly being updated and will probably transform into something a bit different sooner than later. They have a different view of it than we do.

 

[SL2]

They had larger market share than iPhone is 14 countries or something like that and were growing in the US actually went from 2% to a little over 4% in a years time. They were as high as 14 % in other parts of the world. Mobile and phones are where the current and future consumer interest is and they blew it. Nadella really screwed this up.

As much as I agree, I'm still not sure it's that simple. Nadella sacrificed Mobile just to save the rest of the company, more or less.

Two simple things that would have improved the W10M model launch, without adding that much cost (purely speculating, old rant):

1 - Don't launch before ~10586.107, the first builds were half baked. Let people wait, it's better than launching the next big mobile OS that's not ready for review. The reviews at launch gets all the attention, very few (fewer than the WP market share) cares what happens 3 months later.
Ironically, the bad rep is the reason for why I bought a 950, the price dropped quickly..

2 - Give the 950's the same design as the 650. This is such a no-brainer. Why make the premium models look cheaper?

It wouldn't make much difference in terms of market share today though, I know that.
What pisses me of is that MS didn't even try the best with what they had.

Then we have all the OS versions, some upgrade limitations makes sense here, but not all.

Windows Mobile 6.5 can't be upgraded Windows Phone 7.
Windows Phone 7 can't be upgraded Windows Phone 8.
Windows Phone 8.1 can't be upgraded Windows 10 Mobile officially (most models).
Windows Phone 8 RT can't be upgraded Windows 10 of any kind officially.

The problem is that MS start from scratch way too often with their Mobile versions. This scares users and developers away, besides the app gap, and just as important, app QUALITY gap.
At the same time they developed W10M for Android phones (for a while), just to **** off WM users even more. It's technically possible to upgrade an Android phone to WM, but not older WP models?

I don't expect to be running Windows 10 ARM on my 950 in the future, for obvious reasons, and I don't need to. I just want some decent apps that keeps on getting updated, that's all.

 

[Ryujingt3]

Windows phone is pretty much dead. Microsoft seem to see it as some sort of embarrassment now too. So they are scared to mention it or talk about it. Kind of like a 'don't ask, don't tell policy'. This does echo BlackBerry and Nokia of the Symbian days too. The writing is definitely on the wall and the mystical Surface phone, most likely, either will never arrive, or won't save the day either.

But that doesn't stop us from enjoying the platform and our devices now for what they can do for us, instead of worrying about something we have no control over. So keep on rocking your Windows phone devices until Microsoft tells us it's time to move on. We sustain the platform ourselves, through sites like this and the forums. That is the best we can expect.

 

[Kevin Rush]

We live in a world where selling 1 million in the last 4 months is called "dead" by "some people". I wonder how many of us, here on this forum, have sold 1 million of anything in their entire life.
Interesting.

 

[anon(50597)]

We live in a world where selling 1 million in the last 4 months is called "dead" by "some people". I wonder how many of us, here on this forum, have sold 1 million of anything in their entire life.
Interesting.

Exactly. What if their plans work out and they become a niche market for businesses and others who want a similar experience. Are they still a failure or dead because they're not selling as much as Apple or Android?

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[Kevin Rush]

Support Windows mobile phones, if you like them, or be part of the problem.

 

[SL2]

We live in a world where selling 1 million in the last 4 months is called "dead" by "some people". I wonder how many of us, here on this forum, have sold 1 million of anything in their entire life.

The numbers alone isn't the issue here, it's the consequences of those numbers. MS doesn't sell enough to make the app developers stay, and that's a problem.

 

[Kevin Rush]

The numbers alone isn't the issue here, it's the consequences of those numbers. MS doesn't sell enough to make the app developers stay, and that's a problem.

My Windows phone does everything I want it to and many many things I don't care about. I like the operating system and phone, so I use it. My life does not revolve around apps.

Use what you like, or be part of the problem.

 

[SL2]

My life does not revolve around apps.

Neither does mine. Your comment has nothing to do with the quote.

You don't need a fork, a spoon and a knife would do just fine.

 

[Kevin Rush]

Neither does mine. Your comment has nothing to do with the quote.

You don't need a fork, a spoon and a knife would do just fine.

Respectfully, This topic has been explored in this forum and many others over time. I recommend the article "No, Windows phone isn't dead - and it may never die" by Jason Ward on this site. Read the comments too.

I stand by my comment:
My Windows phone does everything I want it to and many many things I don't care about. I like the operating system and phone, so I use it. (My life does not revolve around apps.)

Figuratively speaking, my phone has has all the "forks, spoons, and knives" I need and many that I don't use.

Support Windows mobile phones, if you like them, or be part of the problem!

Best Wishes

 

[SL2]

I stand by my comment:
My Windows phone does everything I want it to and many many things I don't care about. I like the operating system and phone, so I use it. (My life does not revolve around apps.)

Now you're just repeating yourself. Read that part you quoted from me before and you'll see that I talk about consumers in general. Your comment has nothing to do with the reason for why W10M mobiles are unpopular, which was my topic.

1 - You said a million units sold in four months isn't bad.
2 - I said the numbers alone isn't the problem.
3 - You said that you like your phone. << (See what I mean with offtopic?)

You would also benefit from a more successful platform, even if you don't feel the need for apps, or don't need a new phone right now.
More models and brands to choose from, better availability, most carriers selling most of the popular models. The lack of diversity and availability are issues for people wanting to buy a new W10M phone, even if they can get past the app gap, and app quality gap.

Support Windows mobile phones, if you like them, or be part of the problem!

I already support Windows, and so do you, obviously, so why do you bring this up over and over again? You make no sense here.

I like my 950, it's the best phone I ever had.

 

[Ryujingt3]

People don't like the platform because it is not 'cool' enough. Microsoft don't promote it enough and the platform has a negative stigma surrounding it that, in all honesty, won't change. There is not enough apps or apps of quality on iOS or Android. There is not enough handsets and carrier support either. In that respect, the platform never really existed in the eyes of the consumer to start with.

 

[Kevin Rush]

Now you're just repeating yourself. Read that part you quoted from me before and you'll see that I talk about consumers in general. Your comment has nothing to do with the reason for why W10M mobiles are unpopular, which was my topic.

1 - You said a million units sold in four months isn't bad.
2 - I said the numbers alone isn't the problem.
3 - You said that you like your phone. << (See what I mean with offtopic?)

You would also benefit from a more successful platform, even if you don't feel the need for apps, or don't need a new phone right now.
More models and brands to choose from, better availability, most carriers selling most of the popular models. The lack of diversity and availability are issues for people wanting to buy a new W10M phone, even if they can get past the app gap, and app quality gap.


I already support Windows, and so do you, obviously, so why do you bring this up over and over again? You make no sense here.

I like my 950, it's the best phone I ever had.

Re: SL2,
Respectively, no disrespect intended, but my previous comments were not intended solely as a private conversation with you. Even now, this comment to you, is intentionally made, to clarify to others, that I didn't intend to "take any specific issue" with you personally. I was, and am, commenting in a broader forum. I'm simply saying my point of view.

Think of my comments as me "voting". Some say, why vote? A single vote makes no difference. Yet, I continue to "vote" to support Windows mobile phones.

Again, this comment is not about you.

Respectively,
Best Wishes

 

[PerfectReign]

People don't like the platform because it is not 'cool' enough. O

that made me laugh. When I first started on Android (around Eclair), people told me exactly that.


Sent from mTalk

 

[Ryujingt3]

that made me laugh. When I first started on Android (around Eclair), people told me exactly that.


Sent from mTalk

It sounds silly, doesn't it? People just equate Windows with boring business tasks, like documents and spreadsheets. Think of the 'I'm a Mac and I'm a PC' adverts that Apple did in the past. Apple is seen as the epitome of cool and even Android has upped its game. Windows phone, sadly, won't ever shake off the boring corporate image entirely, although the Surface brand has made the Windows brand (on a tablet) at least seem moderately cool.

 

[SL2]

Windows phone, sadly, won't ever shake off the boring corporate image entirely, although the Surface brand has made the Windows brand (on a tablet) at least seem moderately cool.

The Surface is cool, and expensive. I don't know of anyone who has a Lumia or a Surface. I have my 950, and a broken 1020, that's it.
The way I see it, Lumias are pretty much unknown here (Sweden) these days, and Surfaces are way too expensive, and quite unknown as well.
Besides the three common types of laptops, budget, premium and gaming, I don't think there are many other types of portable Windows products being sold here.

 

[Ryujingt3]

The Surface is cool, and expensive. I don't know of anyone who has a Lumia or a Surface. I have my 950, and a broken 1020, that's it.
The way I see it, Lumias are pretty much unknown here (Sweden) these days, and Surfaces are way too expensive, and quite unknown as well.
Besides the three common types of laptops, budget, premium and gaming, I don't think there are many other types of portable Windows products being sold here.

There are very little Windows phones here in Thailand too. But, IT shops are strangely seeming to push the Surface and I see more of them out and about, instead of the usual MacBooks or iPads. The Surface tablets, and overall product line, is very expensive, I agree. The specs are also not the best, given the price, same as Apple. But, as a brand, people are starting to recognise it more and more. That's why, like everyone is speculating, and I would love to happen, whatever mobile device Microsoft does make, if any, has to be under the Surface brand for any chance of success.