08-17-2017 05:25 PM
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  1. mobilejk's Avatar
    And I'll add my own experience too boot. I purchased a Surface 3 through AT&T for the LTE support. Big mistake. Just leaving it on my desk and not touching it. When I would turn it on -- without fail -- it doesn't recognize that the keyboard is attached and is in tablet mode. So you have to take the keyboard off and re-attach it -- every freaking time. Now you call AT&T they don't support the device --at all -- so you have to wait another half an hour on hold for MS support -- but wait -- they can't fix the issue. So basically I paid almost $1000.00 for a POS. And Panos Paney has the nerve to claim that their customers are happy. What a disingenuous a-hole he is. No lie.
    Blomsternisse likes this.
    08-13-2017 01:25 PM
  2. stamargo's Avatar
    I don't think it'll have much impact. Consumer Reports is still good for used car and large appliance info, imo, but they've never been very insightful in tech reviews, and their readership is not exactly cutting edge. My 75 y/o father is a longtime print subscriber, which I think is typical.

    That being said, there are indeed some issues with Surface products. I've had two, and they both had problems. My Surface 3 had a software glitch that I fixed by blowing up and reinstalling the OS, but my Surface 2 developed hardware issues that bricked it after about a year and a half of use. But what is the "problem" rate on other laptops and tablets? I'd guess that Surface products have about average failure rates compared to similar devices, maybe a bit better than average.
    08-13-2017 03:02 PM
  3. David Bladen's Avatar
    I've had a Surface Pro 4 m3 and Type Cover for nearly a year and I haven't had a single problem. Its same issue with every survey/review system people are more likely to speak out if they've had an issue with a product than they are if it works fine from the beginning. I'm not saying that there haven't been problems with the Surface line in the past but to claim 1 in every 4 is faulty is ridiculous. The timing in the CR survey doesn't make sense either. They claimed to have included products from 2014 to 2017 and that Surface devices have issues after two years. Only two devices were two years old after 2014, the Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3. The Pro 4 and Surface Book aren't two till October 2017, the new Pro, Studio and Laptop are all newer than that. So effectively CR are basing their recommendation against all Surface devices on the 3 and Pro 3. It doesn't add up at all, CR are effectively irrelevant in the review space these days, I don't know anyone who even visits the site anymore. I'd recommend a Surface device to anyone.
    08-13-2017 03:19 PM
  4. WinLou's Avatar
    Well, my household has had the opposite experience. Our Surface Book rubs like a beast and our MacBook is giant pile of sh**.
    lol, rubs like a beast.
    08-13-2017 05:00 PM
  5. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Additionally, they have shown biases for decades.
    Claiming such a thing should require some sort of proof on two levels:

    1. That a bias exists (and that it's anti-Microsoft).

    2. That the bias is not based in a factual difference in quality.

    I do not trust Consumer Reports, but my issue is not that I think they're on an anti-Microsoft witch-hunt. This news does not make me think more or less of the Surface brand. However, the fact Microsoft did things like raise the price of the Surface $50 (by removing the pen and not docking that cost from the price), along with upping the price of many models from the SP4 levels (while saying upfront that they didn't consider the updates worth a "SP5" moniker), that's what kills the reputation of the Surface brand for me. They were already a mediocre value, and now they're pretty much just a bad one. As much as I find the pen cool, I'd rather miss out on that then pay an extra $400 for a less-sturdy laptop than what I'd find from a competing OEM that offers a single-body hybrid design.
    08-13-2017 05:06 PM
  6. realwarder's Avatar
    I've read a lot of bad reviews which sound due to driver issues, so I know why CR would hear bad press. And lets face it, these are expensive premium devices which you expect to 'just work'. So issues at release are a big disappointment to hear about. Saying that, the only Surface experience I personally have are a couple of units a year old and by that time they have been very stable, reliable and mostly trouble free.
    08-13-2017 09:32 PM
  7. gazuga6176's Avatar
    I had 2 Sp3 and thwy ran great, but I cracked the screen on both if them. The first one cracked when I was pushing it into am armor case. Very peculiar. the second one crack when inserting it into the surface dock. both in the lower right corner.
    08-13-2017 11:32 PM
  8. mrharoharo's Avatar
    This is my first comment here so please feel free to ignore it, or take it with as many grains of salt as you wish. Also lots of complaining lies ahead:

    I am going to be perfectly honest and say that this rating from Consumer Reports is making me have second thoughts about purchasing a Surface product, in my case the Surface Pro. I am currently a 1st gen Surface Pro owner. While I like a lot of things about it very much, ownership of this product has not been all sunshine and rainbows. I replaced it 3 times in the first year due to uneven backlighting of the screen. The second year a Windows update for some reason created 2 recovery partitions, which could have been my fault. I took it to the Microsoft Store in NYC, since I was under the extended warranty, to just get everything reinstalled. That was done okay except for the fact that I wasn't contacted when it was done, and when I picked it up there was a visible dent in a corner that wasn't there when I initially dropped it off. The store never took/admitted responsibility for it and I needed it so I was SOL. Just before my extended warranty ran out I started to have intermittent issues with the power button, but couldn't get it to the Store in time. Went a week and a half after the warranty expired and even the manager couldn't make an exception, and suggested I talk to online support. No I didn't go to online support and I'm still dealing with this issue to this day. And, here's my bias, working under Apple's customer service system, management at one of their stores would absolutely be able to make that call and provide an exception in a similar circumstance. So it just rubbed me the wrong way.

    It sucks to hear that I may have to hold off on buying another Surface device, but in some way I'm not surprised. I was just hoping they'd get it together by now.
    08-14-2017 01:59 AM
  9. Tim Stone's Avatar
    I would strongly suggest reading the actual CR article. It was not "scathing". While they really like the Surface line, and are impressed by it, they simply pulled that little "recommended" check mark because their clients had reported problems over the past two years with about 25% of the devices. This exceeds the standard they have for every product reviewed. It's also important to know this is only part of a very broad annual survey we ( geriatric ) readers completed. A newly released internal memo from MSFT shows that overall ( which includes all the bulk corporate buys with IT support, not likely to be returned ) the actual return rate is about 17%. So for the non-tech consumer base to report problems in 25% of the actual users' cases is not dissimilar. Many people, like myself, retain these devices although in reality they clearly do have problems. As a tech person, I can work around those, but my consumer clients and friends are far more frustrated with the problems ... and they said so. The smart response from Microsoft would have been to acknowledge they are working with ongoing input and resolving problems, not a blanket defensive comment that few will trust.
    Last edited by Tim Stone; 08-14-2017 at 11:06 AM. Reason: clarification
    08-14-2017 11:03 AM
  10. bluefirestarter's Avatar
    I don't trust C.R. at all BUT I purchased a SP3 the day it came out and it was a great device the first year or so then it went to crap. Crazy battery drain issues (getting 2 hours max,) not staying asleep when I put it in my bag, a random yellow blotch taking up the left part of the screen, not recognizing when I take the keyboard off and switching it to tablet mode, random cpu spikes that spin the fan up like crazy for no reason.. just to name a few. Not a great experience from Microsoft which soured me from getting another Surface device. Of course there is the getting screwed over buying a $700 950XL just to have it become unusable with Win 10 after owning it for just a few months.. Not happy
    08-14-2017 11:05 AM
  11. Jason Rosenthal's Avatar
    The price, lacking GPU performance and lack of hardware upgradability are stopping me from getting anything from the Surface line. They also tend to not to publish critical information like the CPU model. I won't look at Mac's for similar reasons. Consumer reports makes it sound like Acer quality, but I sure hope they are better. If reliability were that low, then stores won't carry them. They carry Acer because they are inexpensive.
    08-14-2017 11:20 AM
  12. Blake Strack's Avatar
    I'd be so happy if I was able to dismiss the Consumer Reports finding, but alas, I cannot. I absolutely loved my SP4, especially its speed, versatility and functionality. I spent lots of money to get the most powerful chip and highest memory in hopes of "future-proofing" my purchase. I took great care of my SP4 in hopes that it would last for years. That said, I was devastated when--after 14 months--my SP4 developed a dead zone down the center of the touch screen. My two MS Pens became worthless, as well as all the INK-based software I puchased, like NEBO for notetaking. What's worse is that my SP4 had not had any drops, bangs or water spills. There was no discernible reason for this hardware failure.

    My warranty had expired just 5 weeks before. The Microsoft Store could not help, as this was a "hardware problem". Nor could they replace it, as the warranty had expired. Worse yet, I was forced to decide between "disabling the touch screen for good" or buying a replacement SP4 for a reduced price. My "new" SP4 came with only a 3 month warranty. I feel like I have signed a pact with the Devil. This all happened the same week that CR released its revised recommendations. In short, while my newly purchased SP4 is meeting my needs now, I now have zero confidence that it will continue to work for the next two years.

    So, if you're paying attention, you've likely heard that consumer reviews site Consumer Reports dealt Microsoft and its Surface brand a significant blow yesterday, when it removed its "recommended" designation from ALL Surface PCs and questioned the lineup's overall reliability.

    I wrote a news story for Windows Central on the subject yesterday, and since then Microsoft's Surface chief disputed the claims—and I received a ton of responses from readers on social sites like Twitter. Of the dozen or so responses I received, the majority by far seemed to agree with Consumer Reports' finding. In other words, I heard from many more people who claimed to have returned their Surface PCs due to hardware issues than people who said they'd had no problems at all. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean much, because people are more likely to respond if their experience was in line with the report than if it wasn't. (People love validation.) But it did seem notable to me.

    At Windows Central, we were surprised to hear Consumer Reports' take, because we're all big fans of Surface and for the most part have not really experience any sort of consistent reliability issue.

    What do you think of the whole thing? Do you think the report's conclusions are valid? Do you trust Consumer Reports in general? And do you think this whole thing will have any lasting effect on Microsoft and Surface?
    08-14-2017 12:21 PM
  13. fzammetti's Avatar
    I recently had the same issue with my SP3 and I had a bad experience with MS handling it, bad enough that I felt compelled to blog about it, something I rarely do. Check it out: Microsoft, you’ve got to do better by a customer when DEATH (maybe) is on the line! « The Demented Ravings of Frank W. Zammetti
    08-14-2017 02:46 PM
  14. derylmccarty's Avatar

    I am a nut case for MSFT software and machines and peripherals. I have owned the SP(1), 2,3, and SB (daily driver---no, only driver) complete with insider fast ring OSes since fast ring existed. I was a beta user and tester from Win 98. We owned a computer store (3 at one juncture) for 20 years and made, fixed and swore at only MSFT code on any number of machines. I had a wired MSFT Ergo KB for years and am lost without one. Now have a Surface Ergo KB and Sculpt Mouse (BT). I have had not had an issue with my SPs, but did have a "mating" issue with the tablet to base on the right lock on my i7 SB. The spacing was different on the right than the left and from time to time the SB would signal detached when that was not the case. However, one day as it did that, I detached the tablet, and ummm, I may have "vigorously" "tapped" the edge of the table contemplating its immediate "airborne" return to MSFT in frustration -- and out popped someone's fingernail. The machine then re-mated as advertised and has had no mechanical problems since.

    I don't use CR for computer buying, either, but rather sites like Dan Rubino's and Paul Thurrott's and, oh by the way, I am 72, older than your mom probably - and not even a boomer by a few months. So, cool it on drawing conclusions based on grey...unless you are merely complimenting my grey matter. In which case, thank you!

    raycpl likes this.
    08-14-2017 10:53 PM
  15. abrichman's Avatar
    Derylmccarty, you are a fair bit younger than her but I am not sure you should take offense. It's a generational thing. As you are far more aware than me, there weren't the amount of resources to offer reviews in the 70s and 80s (when I became aware of CR) outside of CR. And for microwaves, tvs, washers, pcs, it was always gospel in our house. I don't think there were reasonable options to CR through the 90s. That was definitely the case for computers and printers that she would have bought in that era. As my first computer purchases were used machines or hand builds in the same time period, I would never buy a computer in the relevant CR time period. But, I don't believe she would give CR much credence today on computing purchases as she's more inclined to go with word of mouth reviews and recommendations from peers.
    Last edited by abrichman; 08-17-2017 at 07:31 PM.
    08-17-2017 05:25 PM
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