1. Jcmg62's Avatar
    It's the 18th November. Black Friday is just days away. Christmas is around the corner.

    Microsoft have no new product announcements due.

    Is Windows on Arm no longer going to happen in 2017?
    11-18-2017 07:23 AM
  2. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    According to the geekbanch result leaked, I really failed to see the point of W10A in the market right now. SD835 evens z7-8700 under x86 environment at best with similar TDP(~2W), the only good point provide by ARM SoC is the great integrity which means nothing to end user. LTE version of surface can give you the same internet connectivity and if you take a look at Dell yoga book, replace the strange touchpad with a normal design then throw in a bigger battery, power-saving FHD AMOLED screen, and a QCom X16. I don't think SD835 platform can have significant advantage even in battery life. I also failed to see ARM-based mobile device can benefit end user because they won't be cheaper than current choice you have on the market. So even W10A is in a stable stage now which I highly doubt I will don't think it will be a better choice when you buying a laptop/pad like device.
    11-19-2017 09:31 PM
  3. Cruncher04's Avatar
    According to the geekbanch result leaked, I really failed to see the point of W10A in the market right now. SD835 evens z7-8700 under x86 environment at best with similar TDP(~2W), the only good point provide by ARM SoC is the great integrity which means nothing to end user.
    To put this into perspective, the Snapdragon 835 achieves about equal performance to Atom z7-8700 with emulated x86 apps - which in itself is an incredible achievement of the emulation technology. It is however more than 2x as fast with native code and more than 3x as fast for GPU workloads.

    TDP is relatively meaningless, as most of the time the device is not running at the thermal boundaries and even when it is running at the thermal boundaries ARM CPUs do not need to throttle as much as x86 CPUs.


    I don't think SD835 platform can have significant advantage even in battery life.
    So you don't think that higher energy efficiency will results in longer battery life? That is very naive to say the least.

    I also failed to see ARM-based mobile device can benefit end user because they won't be cheaper than current choice you have on the market. So even W10A is in a stable stage now which I highly doubt I will don't think it will be a better choice when you buying a laptop/pad like device.
    They do not need to be cheaper if you just get the better device.
    Having a much higher efficiency CPU inside is a big plus in my book. If you think about it, you can get either - a device with same form factor and performance at higher battery life or a lightweight small device with same battery life. There a lots of options if you just have a higher efficiency SoC.
    Jcmg62 likes this.
    12-01-2017 06:23 AM
  4. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    1) Talk about native performance of SD835 doesn't means much as it only happens with native UWP and there's tons of x86 app and packaged x86-UWP which SD835 have to run under emulator. That's why MS give it W10S as default and when people update it to W10 pro the shortcoming will be explored.

    2) I don't think SD835 is more power effective under this emulating mode. First, the SD835 is meeting somewhere the lowest standard to run W10 smoothly, that's why other SD SoC are not adapting W10. So I don't think SD835 under W10 will stay as much time under optimized power-consumption curve as it under Android and once these SoCs are out of their optimized power-consumption curve they bleed out battery quickly. Second, with the two prototype released by ASUS and HP. They are even heavier than current x86 laptop/2in1 solutions and those extra weight I can only think of using in extra battery capacity. Simple math, the lenove yogabook is somewhere 650g with 32Wh battery and 13~15 hours using time, putting another 12000mAh power bank(~60Wh) together is still under 1kg while HP envy x2 is sitting at 1.2kg - do you really think atom will fall behind in using time?

    3) with the LTE version of Android/Windows laptop/2in1 we already have almost every feature this SD platform stressed if not more. Without better cost-effective ratio to the customer why people would buy it?
    Last edited by Tien-Lin Chang; 12-06-2017 at 10:40 PM.
    12-06-2017 10:11 PM
  5. Cruncher04's Avatar
    Talk about native performance of SD835 doesn't means much as it only happens with native UWP and there's tons of x86 app and packaged x86-UWP which SD835 have to run under emulator. That's why MS give it W10S as default and when people update it to W10 pro the shortcoming will be explored.
    Wrong again. Windows on ARM device can run:
    1) ARM 64 bit native UWP and Win32 apps
    2) ARM 32 bit native UWP and Win32 apps
    3) .Net/CLI apps

    For all these app types no emulation is needed!

    Only for
    4) x86 32 bit native Win32 or Centennial UWP apps emulation is needed.

    Simple math, the lenove yogabook is somewhere 650g with 32Wh battery and 13~15 hours using time, putting another 12000mAh power bank(~60Wh) together is still under 1kg while HP envy x2 is sitting at 1.2kg - do you really think atom will fall behind in using time?
    HP envy X2 is around 670g without the cover (e.g. cover is relatively heavy) and 6.9mm thin (similar as Yogabook). However it has 2xCPU performance and 3xGPU performance compared to Yogabook - they play in a completely different league performance-wise. Also the yogabook only has a 10 inch screen with draws less power.
    But even if we ignore the performance and screen size discrepancy for a moment:
    Yogabook: Idle time with minimal display brightness, cellular/WLAN off: 1153 minutes. Browsing using WLAN: 498 minutes. And very typical for x86 devices is modern standby time of less than a week. (Reference: Notebookscheck.de)
    "In our streaming video playback test, the Windows version of the Yoga Book ran for 8 hours on the dot." - cnet.com review

    In summary a device with less than half the performance, smaller screen and about the same weight and thickness achieves much less battery duration than the HP envy X2!

    Are serious or just trolling?
    Last edited by Cruncher04; 12-07-2017 at 07:13 PM.
    Mach_E likes this.
    12-07-2017 06:58 PM

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