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05-17-2018 10:40 AM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    @Gregorius Magnus
    I don't have the time to respond to everything you wrote, so I'll just focus on what I think is the main issue you're tripping over:

    Do you think it makes sense to call the desktop OS that you are using Windows 10 and call the chip in the Smart-Light-bulb Windows 10 the same way?
    Probably you say yes. Otherwise I don't see your reasoning.
    I say, no.
    Yes and no. It makes just as much sense as calling that OS "Fnirgelwatz" or giving it any other MEANINGLESS name.

    The brand "Windows" has no technical meaning or implications. Your desire to make it technically meaningful is what's messing with your thought process.

    While you don't think it makes sense to call an OS that runs on a chip in a light-blub "Windows", that simply doesn't matter, because MS does think it makes sense. MS will apply the "Windows" brand to almost anything and does so all the time, for example:

    1)
    Windows IoT has an embedded webserver but otherwise comes with no desktop at all and without support for UI windows, yet it's still called "Windows IoT".
    2)
    WP7 had absolutely nothing in common with Windows 7, i.e. there was no shared code between them. While WP7 did have a GUI, it had nothing resembling UI windows. Despite having nothing to do with Windows in a technical sense, MS still called it "Windows Phone".

    MS doesn't agree with your view on what the term "Windows" means. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of that dispute.

    Let's call both of them [desktop and embedded versions of MS' OS] Andromeda-powered.
    [edit]
    No. When the Andromeda project is over, that project will cease to exist. Despite the changes made over the course of that project, the results will resemble, to roughly 99.9%, exactly what we currently call Windows. Until MS officially changes the name by which it refers to that code base, I'll continue to call it whatever MS calls it, which currently is Windows. I consider the probability of MS changing the name essentially 0.
    [/edit]

    You're using the term "Andromeda" to refer to a (non-GUI related) subset of the entire Windows OS. However, MS and developers already have appropriate terms for those things, for example OneCore or Windows Core OS. Obviously you are free to invent and use whatever terminology you want, but it makes discussions like this very difficult. Why not just use the same terminology MS does?

    Here's a very simplified way to think about Windows using MS' terminology:

    layers.png

    Each layer can access functionality and services provided by the layers below it, but is oblivious to anything above it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-17-2018 at 10:47 AM. Reason: added picture; see edit
    Laura Knotek and BajanSaint69 like this.
    05-17-2018 08:12 AM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    Cshell is all Windows though, just stripped down into components to be packaged in different ways for new form factors (i.e. Andromeda, Polaris, etc.) So Andromeda will never run on a lightbulb, but Cshell might provide the basis for Windows to run on a lightbulb.
    That isn't correct either. Take a look at the image I provided in my response to Magnus above.

    CShell is nothing more than a Continuum enabled UWP app.

    CShell is launched at the end of the Windows boot process, just like explorer.exe (the Win32 shell) is today. CShell has absolutely nothing to do with managing UI windows nor anything to do with creating the UI elements (dropdown, checkbox, etc) which apps use to composite/display a UI.

    CShell creates and manage things like the start menu, virtual desktops, and the task bar. Because CShell supports continuum it can adapt these elements to different screen sizes. That's it.

    Andromeda is focused on the layers below CShell.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-17-2018 at 09:33 PM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-17-2018 09:02 AM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I’m gonna need some Dramamine to keep up.
    nate0, tgp, Laura Knotek and 1 others like this.
    05-17-2018 09:07 AM
  4. cloakandcipher's Avatar
    Aaah I see. So I was confusing Cshell with WCOS? I think that makes sense now. Thanks for the info a5cent!
    a5cent likes this.
    05-17-2018 10:02 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    I’m gonna need some Dramamine to keep up.
    Me too. I'm a software guy, but if it isn't SQL Server or Dynamics, count me out!
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-17-2018 10:12 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    @tgp @fatclue_98

    I realize we're completely off topic at this point.

    If it's something else you're unhappy with I'll need that to be pointed out in a more literal way as my sarcasm-meter irreparably broke years ago. Sorry.
    tgp, Laura Knotek and nate0 like this.
    05-17-2018 10:35 AM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    @tgp @fatclue_98

    I realize we're completely off topic at this point.

    If it's something else you're unhappy with I'll need that to be pointed out in a more literal way as my sarcasm-meter irreparably broke years ago. Sorry.
    Nah, we're all good bruh. Pardon my sarcasm, I feel like this thread has evolved (or devolved) into a mock trial with opposing counsel throwing haymakers at each other.
    tgp, a5cent, Laura Knotek and 1 others like this.
    05-17-2018 10:40 AM
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