1. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    All along we've been hearing about "no market for Andromeda device" "Who is this device for???"

    So now that everyone and his dog is looking at a foldable device, can we finally admit there's actually a market for this?
    01-31-2019 07:17 PM
  2. Adventurer64's Avatar
    I'm a contrarian at heart, so the fact that I'd buy one is probably a really bad sign. I usually roll against the herd.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    01-31-2019 08:17 PM
  3. mtf1380's Avatar
    I'm trying to hold out for its introduction...hope I'm able too!
    aximtreo and fatclue_98 like this.
    02-01-2019 06:51 AM
  4. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    There can't be a market yet for a device that nobody knows anything about. Hopefully this will change in the future.
    BajanSaint69 likes this.
    02-02-2019 03:52 AM
  5. nate0's Avatar
    I'd say absolutely!
    I have been into tech for years, but I honestly don't own much of the newer tech we have been seeing more of late (smart speakers, smart watches, 2 in 1s, etc) and what I actually use daily is just a desktop and Mobile phone. I think mostly because of my own routine and exposure in how I learned to use a PC. However, generations upcoming are more apt to trying new things, but they also are learning to use software and computers much differently than how I did or others did. They may even be perfect candidates for Microsoft's 'Andromeda', more apt to trying new things.

    The only reason we have not seen it yet, is due to Microsoft's own choice to hold it back until they deem it useable based on it provides a good user experience. Which probably means, they need it work really well, but also what are all those upcoming generations or current ones using daily and how can we supplement that or even complement that with a device like Andromeda...(mainly services and apps)

    Plus of course when you see reports in the past 2 years of Samsung's move to one and even Huawei, then why not. Microsoft and companies like the two I mentioned have been preparing for this for years. We have proof of concepts in all the patent findings we have seen from all 3 in the past 2-3 years. Companies of that caliber have gobs of data and anonymous survey stats to judge whether or not to release a foldable device like that or even how. Granted the technology is not completely ready, so it is a matter of timing for them. Microsoft on the other hand could probably get away with dropping this device in consumers laps even if it is not all we envisioned or dreamed about as far as aesthetics or design, so long as they get the usability and user experience nailed right the first time. For a Samsung or a Huawei, I feel a lot more is riding on them to make it look as good and perform better or even similarly to one of their smartphones. Those are my thoughts.
    02-02-2019 08:06 AM
  6. sd4f's Avatar
    The fundamental problem is, any hardware killer features can quickly be either adopted or even reverse engineered by the competition in much less time than it will for MS, for instance, to get third party support in apps on their store.

    Bottom line is any device that MS wants to release can't just be thrown out there now, and be expected to be successful. The groundwork needs to be done and then the device can be released.

    I suspect that MS is going to keep on working on the andromeda device so that it's ready to launch or change direction as quickly as possibly, without having to start from scratch. This allows them to be nimble as possible. Whether they release it this year, or any time soon, I have my doubts.

    MS wants in on the mobile space, it can't really survive long term without it, but it appears that they're clearly approaching it from the side of their strengths.
    nate0 and jmshub like this.
    02-02-2019 04:34 PM
  7. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    The issue isn't the hardware. MS will be fine for that. It's software and marketing. Lack of both killed off Windows Phone and pretty much. We need to see if MS have learnt from their mistakes. Too many Windows Phone users or MS fans have been burnt too often. That's why many are just sceptical about MS getting back into any sort of phone territory.
    jmshub likes this.
    02-03-2019 04:53 AM
  8. nate0's Avatar
    The issue isn't the hardware. MS will be fine for that. It's software and marketing. Lack of both killed off Windows Phone and pretty much. We need to see if MS have learnt from their mistakes. Too many Windows Phone users or MS fans have been burnt too often. That's why many are just sceptical about MS getting back into any sort of phone territory.
    That is the exact mentality that will shy Microsoft away from almost anything. They can't think of the past like that imo. If you ever learned to ride a bike, or show a young one how to. We make mistakes. Yet, when we fall or can't do it, even if the adult encourages that young person to get back on the bike and keep trying no matter how much it hurt or burnt, they themselves have to make the choice and not give up. It goes both ways. However Microsoft can't afford to worry about what customers think or thought about them now or prior. They could have stuck it out even through Windows 10 Mobile if they wanted. They chose to be where they are at now for all kinds of factors, and they are actually benefiting some what for it...Whatever they end up doing they just need to plan, execute and deliver if they really want it.

    Software, Platforms, Operating systems, hardware, and programmable whatever's are constantly changing always. They should have never just stopped. To me it is what it is even if people (consumers) do not buy it up. So what Microsoft if you could not get your partners and developers on board so that you can meet a quota or deadline...do what you want and need to do anyway.
    02-04-2019 08:30 AM
  9. jmshub's Avatar
    That is the exact mentality that will shy Microsoft away from almost anything. They can't think of the past like that imo. If you ever learned to ride a bike, or show a young one how to. We make mistakes. Yet, when we fall or can't do it, even if the adult encourages that young person to get back on the bike and keep trying no matter how much it hurt or burnt, they themselves have to make the choice and not give up. It goes both ways. However Microsoft can't afford to worry about what customers think or thought about them now or prior. They could have stuck it out even through Windows 10 Mobile if they wanted. They chose to be where they are at now for all kinds of factors, and they are actually benefiting some what for it...Whatever they end up doing they just need to plan, execute and deliver if they really want it.

    Software, Platforms, Operating systems, hardware, and programmable whatever's are constantly changing always. They should have never just stopped. To me it is what it is even if people (consumers) do not buy it up. So what Microsoft if you could not get your partners and developers on board so that you can meet a quota or deadline...do what you want and need to do anyway.
    What Microsoft needs to do is be profitable. Not having partners in carriers and literally all of the developers on board, there is no hope for a new Microsoft mobile device in the near future.
    Laura Knotek and aximtreo like this.
    02-04-2019 09:43 AM
  10. nate0's Avatar
    What Microsoft needs to do is be profitable. Not having partners in carriers and literally all of the developers on board, there is no hope for a new Microsoft mobile device in the near future.
    And that's the fault of being that type of business unfortunately. Trust me it's hard to take risks sometimes there's reputational impact other times Financial but you never know until you try.

    If one makes a choice solely around profit only they will always be defined by that factor.
    02-04-2019 09:48 AM
  11. jmshub's Avatar
    You may have misunderstood a little. I'm not saying that Microsoft is too risk-adverse to make a new run at mobile.

    But look at look at the scene as it stands in 2019. The smartphone market is completely mature. The average consumer isn't going to tolerate a startup or new entry into the market that lacks app support, car support, mobile pay options, etc.

    Getting app developers on board would be crucial. And that would be the classic chicken-and-egg situation, where no one is on the platform because no apps, so no apps get written, etc.

    Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are baked into pretty much every new car for the last 2-4 years, depending on the model. A lot of people rely on that. So, a new platform would have to work with all the major manufacturers to get their own apps working and OTA-deliverable.

    I mean, I know Microsoft has deep pockets, but starting at zero in this day and age seems like too high a barrier for entry. And then, they would have all the same problems they had before. They'd need to work with a handset manufacturer, which seems unlikely, or build their own hardware. I'm sure they lost most of their handset engineering when they pretty much killed off all of Nokia's engineering and manufacturing.
    sd4f, nate0, Laura Knotek and 1 others like this.
    02-04-2019 11:06 AM
  12. nate0's Avatar
    You may have misunderstood a little. I'm not saying that Microsoft is too risk-adverse to make a new run at mobile.

    But look at look at the scene as it stands in 2019. The smartphone market is completely mature. The average consumer isn't going to tolerate a startup or new entry into the market that lacks app support, car support, mobile pay options, etc.

    Getting app developers on board would be crucial. And that would be the classic chicken-and-egg situation, where no one is on the platform because no apps, so no apps get written, etc.

    Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are baked into pretty much every new car for the last 2-4 years, depending on the model. A lot of people rely on that. So, a new platform would have to work with all the major manufacturers to get their own apps working and OTA-deliverable.

    I mean, I know Microsoft has deep pockets, but starting at zero in this day and age seems like too high a barrier for entry. And then, they would have all the same problems they had before. They'd need to work with a handset manufacturer, which seems unlikely, or build their own hardware. I'm sure they lost most of their handset engineering when they pretty much killed off all of Nokia's engineering and manufacturing.
    I understand what you mean. I believe they were or even are suffering from the as mentioned though. I did not mean to decide for you what your post meant was just using it . They actually are a bit cautious, yet I'm no business insider so we are making our own decisions just on what we know read see and judge... but also as mentioned by others on the forum they showed a bit of 'succes trap'. They may be pulling out of that though, but as Satya is learning it takes a long time to rebuild and even transform how people think.
    02-04-2019 03:49 PM
  13. nate0's Avatar
    Also a mobile cell phone is different than a pocketabl PC 'Andromeda' device. Which we can already decide and affirm Microsoft won't need or want to develop a cell phone anytime soon.
    jmshub likes this.
    02-04-2019 03:51 PM
  14. mtf1380's Avatar
    I bought a Windows Phone, back when, for OneNote and because I could buy outright an unlocked phone, go to the local Walmart, purchase an Unlimited Talk, Text and Data monthly plan; paying ½ the price of having to go through a major carrier (I just can’t justify paying $100-200.00/month for Internet and Cell service, just like I can’t justify paying that outrageous fee for cable…won’t do it – it’s the principle).

    “I believe” Microsoft realized in 2016 that their current mobile OS wasn’t feasible for the future, therefore, decided to put their energy to an OS that will be innovative, 5G compatible and able to access all/most apps, AND SECURELY! (right now, Yes, you can get apps on iOS and Android, but they seem to sell your data to anybody that will pay for it, or give it up to bad actors…sorry, not interested in this business plan either).

    “I think” when the realization comes to fruition, MS will enter back into the mobile category with an vengeance and an impressive entry, and people will look up and notice.

    ALSO: it should be noted that my 950XL is getting better and better with its ability to connect to Bluetooth Devices, so MS is doing ‘something’ behind the scenes.
    02-04-2019 06:47 PM
  15. nate0's Avatar
    I bought a Windows Phone, back when, for OneNote and because I could buy outright an unlocked phone, go to the local Walmart, purchase an Unlimited Talk, Text and Data monthly plan; paying ½ the price of having to go through a major carrier (I just can’t justify paying $100-200.00/month for Internet and Cell service, just like I can’t justify paying that outrageous fee for cable…won’t do it – it’s the principle).

    “I believe” Microsoft realized in 2016 that their current mobile OS wasn’t feasible for the future, therefore, decided to put their energy to an OS that will be innovative, 5G compatible and able to access all/most apps, AND SECURELY! (right now, Yes, you can get apps on iOS and Android, but they seem to sell your data to anybody that will pay for it, or give it up to bad actors…sorry, not interested in this business plan either).

    “I think” when the realization comes to fruition, MS will enter back into the mobile category with an vengeance and an impressive entry, and people will look up and notice.

    ALSO: it should be noted that my 950XL is getting better and better with its ability to connect to Bluetooth Devices, so MS is doing ‘something’ behind the scenes.
    Ya. Good points and I agree.
    Many of us are hanging out in limbo waiting for the next device we can call a 'personal mobile' device to carry with us almost everywhere. I don't mind Android devices and I know well enough what's going on behind the scenes on Android and even iOS. One of the key reasons I have very little to do with social media. I can get by using this S8+ but as soon as I find that Microsoft has a capable Windows "mobile" device I can switch to that's all it will take.
    aximtreo and mtf1380 like this.
    02-05-2019 11:30 AM
  16. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    I think MS has been fairly clear that when it goes back into Mobile, it will be a device that does more than a phone. There's a concept video for the 950xl that shows a pen interface and you can see their thinking was headed in that direction from even back then. Since then we've had Windows on Arm, increasingly powerful mobile chipsets, work on One Core and Cshell. I think the mobile device when it drops will be a "computer that also makes phone calls". I don't think this will be a surprise to anyone.

    What I don't get is the feeling on this board that MS somehow can't do marketing a mobile device. I think the major lesson of Windows phone is not to do things in a half cocked non strategic manner. Nadella called time on the Nokia effort and has used the time out of market to "subvert" the other major platforms. His comment "A phone is an MS365 endpoint" shows where this is going. MS will get back into mobile not because they want to make a phone but because they want to be on the edge wherever that is. Being ubiquitous on the edge means building computers for the mobile space. It doesn't mean phones.
    02-06-2019 08:07 AM
  17. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    That is the exact mentality that will shy Microsoft away from almost anything. They can't think of the past like that imo. If you ever learned to ride a bike, or show a young one how to. We make mistakes. Yet, when we fall or can't do it, even if the adult encourages that young person to get back on the bike and keep trying no matter how much it hurt or burnt, they themselves have to make the choice and not give up. It goes both ways. However Microsoft can't afford to worry about what customers think or thought about them now or prior. They could have stuck it out even through Windows 10 Mobile if they wanted. They chose to be where they are at now for all kinds of factors, and they are actually benefiting some what for it...Whatever they end up doing they just need to plan, execute and deliver if they really want it.

    Software, Platforms, Operating systems, hardware, and programmable whatever's are constantly changing always. They should have never just stopped. To me it is what it is even if people (consumers) do not buy it up. So what Microsoft if you could not get your partners and developers on board so that you can meet a quota or deadline...do what you want and need to do anyway.
    You are exactly right. MS should have just kept going. But it's all about the money and the customer's perception these days (thanks, social media). At the end of the day MS just went the money route and stopped Windows phones to save money.
    02-06-2019 08:13 AM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    But it's all about the money and the customer's perception these days (thanks, social media). At the end of the day MS just went the money route and stopped Windows phones to save money.
    What is the problem with this? Every company in existence has one goal: to make a profit. (There are of course a few exceptions to this, but Microsoft certainly falls into the for-profit category). If Microsoft is more profitable without Windows phones than with them, why shouldn't they drop them?
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    02-06-2019 10:53 AM
  19. nate0's Avatar
    What is the problem with this? Every company in existence has one goal: to make a profit. (There are of course a few exceptions to this, but Microsoft certainly falls into the for-profit category). If Microsoft is more profitable without Windows phones than with them, why shouldn't they drop them?
    I don't think there is a problem with it, do you? We are just stating the obvious.
    aximtreo likes this.
    02-06-2019 07:15 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    I don't think there is a problem with it
    This comment indicates that the poster I quoted thinks so:

    MS should have just kept going.
    But no, I don't have a problem with it. Why should a for-profit company keep something going that is not helping them, directly or indirectly?
    02-06-2019 08:12 PM
  21. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    This comment indicates that the poster I quoted thinks so:



    But no, I don't have a problem with it. Why should a for-profit company keep something going that is not helping them, directly or indirectly?
    Sometimes it would be nice to have more than a mobile duopoly.
    G4Grandad and jmshub like this.
    02-08-2019 08:35 AM
  22. tgp's Avatar
    Sometimes it would be nice to have more than a mobile duopoly.
    True, but that's not Microsoft's problem if consumers wish that there was a 3rd option. If it doesn't pay, there is no reason for them to do it.

    Also, a duopoly isn't a big problem. At least it's not a monopoly like desktop.
    TgeekB likes this.
    02-08-2019 09:12 AM
  23. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    True, but that's not Microsoft's problem if consumers wish that there was a 3rd option. If it doesn't pay, there is no reason for them to do it.

    Also, a duopoly isn't a big problem. At least it's not a monopoly like desktop.
    You are right. The consumers have spoken and they don't want a Microsoft phone. That's why Andromeda, whatever form it appears in, may be dead on arrival.
    G4Grandad likes this.
    02-09-2019 05:34 AM
  24. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    You are right. The consumers have spoken and they don't want a Microsoft phone. That's why Andromeda, whatever form it appears in, may be dead on arrival.
    I think you are right, they don't want a Microsoft phone (their loss) which is why I think Andromeda is going to be a tablet first which also does phone things. I think the idea is that it will save you from having to carry your phone as well as a tablet.
    02-09-2019 10:07 AM
  25. nate0's Avatar
    At least it's not a monopoly like desktop.
    I'm curious as to how you see this as a bigger problem. I'm also curious if you actually have a problem with what you're trying to say with this...

    I somewhat see your point, but again it's not Microsoft's problem that they knew how to build what end-users consumers and businesses needed and need is it?
    G4Grandad likes this.
    02-09-2019 09:30 PM
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