09-26-2013 12:38 PM
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  1. EBynum's Avatar
    After the barrage of criticism fired at the Surface 2 from various tech blogs, it's refreshing to read an article by someone who seems to "get it". Here's the article:

    Time To Cut Microsoft Some Slack, Surface 2 Shows They Understand Mobile - HotHardware

    Just wanted to share it.
    09-25-2013 11:50 PM
  2. JKing106's Avatar
    Uh, no. Microsoft is under the delusion that it's still 2003. They actually think the "Windows" brand is gold, when the name "Windows" makes most people think of blue screens, viruses, and computers that slow to a crawl over time. No one but PC gamers, fanboys/alpha nerds, and old IT/SysAdmin guys "like" Windows. The rapid acceptance and sales of iOS and Android devices is proof of that. So, if Microsoft really wants to make inroads to the post-PC mobile market, they are going to have to undersell Apple, like the Android tablet manufacturers do. Throwing in Office is not going to cut it. Throwing in the keyboard cover for free would help a little. Microsoft is going to have to accept the fact that despite selling tons of OEM Windows and Office copies, they are barely a blip on the radar when it comes to mobile. They don't call the shots, anymore. They're going to have to work for loyalty, now. But hey, at least they're doing better than RIM, right?
    09-26-2013 07:06 AM
  3. MobileVortex's Avatar
    Lol ^^
    johnbash612 and rmeigs like this.
    09-26-2013 07:09 AM
  4. Coreldan's Avatar
    ...under the delusion that it's still 2003... most people think of blue screens, viruses, and computers that slow to a crawl over time...
    Yeah, I don't think it's Microsoft being the one to live in delusion, but the "most people".
    09-26-2013 07:21 AM
  5. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Well, at least someone understands their approach.
    09-26-2013 07:23 AM
  6. martinmc78's Avatar
    Uh, no. Microsoft is under the delusion that it's still 2003. They actually think the "Windows" brand is gold, when the name "Windows" makes most people think of blue screens, viruses, and computers that slow to a crawl over time. No one but PC gamers, fanboys/alpha nerds, and old IT/SysAdmin guys "like" Windows. The rapid acceptance and sales of iOS and Android devices is proof of that. So, if Microsoft really wants to make inroads to the post-PC mobile market, they are going to have to undersell Apple, like the Android tablet manufacturers do. Throwing in Office is not going to cut it. Throwing in the keyboard cover for free would help a little. Microsoft is going to have to accept the fact that despite selling tons of OEM Windows and Office copies, they are barely a blip on the radar when it comes to mobile. They don't call the shots, anymore. They're going to have to work for loyalty, now. But hey, at least they're doing better than RIM, right?
    Do you write for a tech website? Sounds exactly like the filth they come out with.
    09-26-2013 07:24 AM
  7. HeyCori's Avatar
    You know, if RT had a more robust app selection than no one would question the validity of the OS.
    09-26-2013 07:28 AM
  8. martinmc78's Avatar
    You know, if RT had a more robust app selection than no one would question the validity of the OS.
    We have Halo...

    Seriously though, its a chicken and egg situation all over again with the apps - devs wont produce unless the marketshare is there and marketshare wont increase without the apps. TBH since getting rid of my ipad at the surface launch there isn't a single app that I miss - the alternatives are passable for what I need and IE11 deals with the rest.
    09-26-2013 07:35 AM
  9. HeyCori's Avatar
    Yeah, I'm already getting tired of them constantly advertising Halo, lol. It's not a bad game but doesn't hold a candle to the actual console games.
    09-26-2013 07:46 AM
  10. gsquared's Avatar
    Though I certainly do not agree with the JKing I do not believe they should be given any slack. That will only make them complacent. They need to stay hungry. When they finally do pierce the skin of their competitors they will just rip it to shreds.

    Oh, and JKing. You really need to find your self another way to make a living. Being someones lacky to write nasty things doesn't suit you.
    JKing106 likes this.
    09-26-2013 07:47 AM
  11. martinmc78's Avatar
    Though I certainly do not agree with the JKing I do not believe they should be given any slack. That will only make them complacent. They need to stay hungry. When they finally do pierce the skin of their competitors they will just rip it to shreds.

    Oh, and JKing. You really need to find your self another way to make a living. Being someones lacky to write nasty things doesn't suit you.
    Slack - no they cant afford that - a fair review from people that have used the device for more than a couple of hours and have worked out how to actually use one to maximum efficiency - that's whats needed to rip its competitors to shreds.
    09-26-2013 07:50 AM
  12. vertigoOne's Avatar
    That was a refreshing article to read. I especially enjoyed how it calls out the baseless bashing of Microsoft for clickbait.

    It makes a lot of sense. People want to feel vindicated in their decisions and the fact of the matter is that most people use iPads, so what news article are most people likely to click on? One that tells them that maybe they don't have the best product, or the one the reaffirms their past decisions?
    aximtreo likes this.
    09-26-2013 08:02 AM
  13. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    While I don't believe that Microsoft is stuck in 2003, I don't think that is a great article. Microsoft still has room to improve in the mobile space, and they definitely still are a bit of a slow dinosaur of a company in some ways. But Windows 8 was a necessary move, and Windows 8.1 is an important update that they are wise to whip out as fast as possible. But the fact that some of the things in Windows 8.1 weren't part of Windows 8 to begin with is telling. Microsoft is learning and they are catching up quickly, but they aren't 100% there yet.

    Still, Surface is a very interesting product, and I don't think it shows a lack of understanding of the mobile space as many are claiming. Instead it shows that Microsoft sees that the market is very competitive and has reached a high level of saturation in a hurry. So their strategy is to offer something that attacks the same market from a different angle. Their value proposition is different, their form factor is unique, etc.

    We simply don't know yet if the idea of a productivity tablet will ever see mainstream success, but I do believe it's a smart strategy with a lot of potential.
    09-26-2013 08:43 AM
  14. surfacedude's Avatar
    microsoft has to deal w/ a reputation it has earned. micrsosoft is a bit sloppy, imo. they release products in a state that apple, for example, would never release them. for example, why do my surface tablets sometimes not open the on s creen keyboard so i log-in after waking them from sleeping? i have restart the machine in order to log in. that's super sloppy. how on earth can you release a product without fixing that first? i think we can all agree that the surface rt is not as fast as it should have been. microsoft had to have known that. why release the product if it wasn't ready? the surface 2 should have been the first surface. instead, microsoft forced out the product in what must be one of the dumbest marketing strategies ever (release only through microsoft, then only microsoft stores or online through microsoft, then online through some tech retailors, and then in phyiscal tech stores?!) that gauranteed failure. now they fighting against that grand and embarrassing failure. they're farther behind now than two years ago.

    are many of the tech reviews unduly harsh? i think so, but i also think microsoft deserves it to a large extent. they've created an incredible product but are killing it by making dumb decisions--rushing it to market, making it difficult to buy, overcharging, et cetera.

    as i've said before, i'm rather pissed about the whole thing. not because i don't like microsoft..i actually really like microsoft. i use two windows phones, an rt and a pro, and a windows 8 desktop. i'm committed. i'm pissed because microsoft is taking a great product in windows 8 and surface and they killing w/ dumb decisions. and that just seems to be characteristic of what microsoft is--a good bit of slop seems to go with whatever they do. if you doubt that look at their incredible history. it's an impressive history, but there a lot of consistent slop built in. look at explorer. why on earth did microsoft just let explorer sit and rot? why sit back and just allow a market you once dominated slip away? that's a sloppy approach and what "improvements" microsoft made to explorer were themselves sloppy. hardly anyone prefers explorer as a browser. i could go on, but you see my point.

    microsoft can't complain about unfair treatment given the way they're treated themselves. i say that hoping the surface and windows 8 become hugely successful, because i think they're great products.
    JKing106 and theefman like this.
    09-26-2013 08:44 AM
  15. Pete's Avatar
    Well, that's a long post, but the only real complaint you had about the surface was that the keyboard sometimes doesn't appear upon waking. Hardly a ground-breaking issue, and I've not seem hoards of people complain about that. Compared with Apple's debacle regarding their maps app, and their ineffectual lock screen security, it's small beans.

    Hardly anyone prefers Internet Explorer? A quick look shows that it holds over a 20% market share (second behind Chrome). IE is the standard internet browser for most businesses.
    09-26-2013 09:07 AM
  16. jmerrey's Avatar
    No offense, but some people need to stop drinking the kool-aid. I love MS products. I use a Windows Phone, I have a Surface Pro, and I can see myself getting a new Surface 2, or possibly the 7" tablet next year. However, MS is getting absolutely crushed in the mobile space. They do not understand the market. They think the Microsoft and Windows branding are commodities. They don't realize that the general public sees those two brands and think of work, viruses, and general complications. Seeing Ballmer talking about leveraging the Windows branding made me queasy.

    Microsoft needs to simplify things. I had a conversation with my sister the other day. She wanted to access her outlook.com email address in her Outlook program in Office. Tell me how much fun that conversation was. I felt like I was Abbott to her Costello: "Who's on first. What's on second. Email. What email? Outlook. What Outlook? No not that Outlook, the other Outlook. Yeah in Windows. What Windows? Windows RT. What RT? Twitter!" Anyone who thinks the general consumer isn't confused is kidding themselves.

    I would love for MS to succeed with the Surface project, and with Windows Phone 8, but until they understand what their true public image is, it will be very difficult. Take the Nokia acquisition. They left the most important piece behind: the Nokia branding. Re-branding the Nokia Lumia to the Microsoft Lumia? Actually sorry, it will probably be the Microsoft Windows RT Lumia 2000 by the time the geniuses in product management are done with it. Unfortunately, they just don't understand the consumer market. 600k phones in the US? $900 million write off for tablets? Yikes. If it was anyone but stubborn MS with deep pockets, we'd be talking bankruptcy. They have the enterprise market, but the consumer market? No.
    JKing106 and TripsG like this.
    09-26-2013 09:20 AM
  17. Coreldan's Avatar
    Yeah, I'm already getting tired of them constantly advertising Halo, lol. It's not a bad game but doesn't hold a candle to the actual console games.
    Well, this here is the problem of Surface too. Since it's not your typical dumbed down consumption tablet, it gets compared to ultrabooks. Now you are comparing a tablet game to the actual console games! :D
    09-26-2013 09:21 AM
  18. JKing106's Avatar
    Do you write for a tech website? Sounds exactly like the filth they come out with.



    Criticism is "filth?" You speak like it's blasphemy. Blindly partisan much? And no, I don't write for any "tech sites," which are just glorified blogs.
    09-26-2013 09:57 AM
  19. martinmc78's Avatar
    Criticism is "filth?" You speak like it's blasphemy. Blindly partisan much? And no, I don't write for any "tech sites," which are just glorified blogs.
    Criticism is fine as long as its based on fact - I used the word filth for irony - which I guess was lost. Blindly partisan - not quite. Ive been using MS products for a long time and im under no reality distortion field influence to make me think they are without there problems.
    09-26-2013 10:10 AM
  20. JKing106's Avatar
    Everything I wrote is fact. Microsoft is completely clueless when it comes to the consumer market, as evidenced by the colossal failure of the RT, which will be repeated by the S2, unless they completely revamp their marketing strategy.

    Some of you seem to think I'm a Microsoft hater. You're wrong. I want the Surface and Windows Phone to succeed. I want the competition. I'm criticizing Microsoft's astounding stupidity and arrogance when it comes to marketing and intuiting what the consumers will accept
    It's as if they're trying to fail.
    09-26-2013 10:23 AM
  21. Pete's Avatar
    It's like listening to Trevor....

    Windows RT may fail, that's true. Microsoft is no stranger to innovating themselves into a one-way street. But, they have the guts to innovate and to move their vision forwards where others are (quite frankly) stagnating. I'm investing in the platform because Windows RT suits my needs more than the other competing platforms.

    Apple succeeded because the innovated first. They then managed to continue that by improving their core products over time. People got used to buying a whole new device every 18 months - they had to because all their friends were doing the same (being seen with a previous generation iPhone is a source of embarrassment). That's what Apple did so brilliantly. Android has done the same thing, but cater for people who want the Apple feeling without spending Apple prices (and having the luxury of a bewildering array of devices (some working better than others).

    Microsoft are so far behind because they're so late to field their products and the products they've released to the field are radically different to what's already out there. A Donkey in the Kentucky Derby kind of different.

    But, this Donkey does what I want it to. I don't care if it wins, I don't even care that much if it finishes.
    HeyCori likes this.
    09-26-2013 10:48 AM
  22. JKing106's Avatar
    Good luck when they kill it, and pull support, then. Ask Zune HD folks how they feel about that.
    09-26-2013 10:51 AM
  23. martinmc78's Avatar
    Everything I wrote is fact. Microsoft is completely clueless when it comes to the consumer market, as evidenced by the colossal failure of the RT, which will be repeated by the S2, unless they completely revamp their marketing strategy.

    Some of you seem to think I'm a Microsoft hater. You're wrong. I want the Surface and Windows Phone to succeed. I want the competition. I'm criticizing Microsoft's astounding stupidity and arrogance when it comes to marketing and intuiting what the consumers will accept
    It's as if they're trying to fail.
    Well, I will agree with you on the marketing they do suck at that. The RT vs ipad ads are a good start but they are a year late. They should have been running those from the surface announcement event not 10 months into the product lifecycle. I think your point about the acceptance of Apple and android devices is a little off though but its still down to MS dropping the ball and not modifying the range of windows slates that were already running for enterprise into consumer devices. Apple created a new market for themselves with consumption touchscreen devices and Android followed them into it. Until we were told we needed one by Steve Jobs everyone was still playing with netbooks.
    09-26-2013 10:53 AM
  24. Abe Vinjamuri's Avatar
    The criticism is fine, maybe the tone could be a bit more mellow.

    As one of the MBAs who might do some work for the very guys you praise and criticize, especially around future products and tech, I believe MS is ahead of Apple in terms of product capabilities - the key one being product convergence and building computing around the consumer (which has always been Apple's thing). Google in my opinion given their organizational structure is at the top in this regard. Now where MS continues to struggle is fast execution. I personally think they are about a year and half behind where they should be. Hopefully the reorg will help speed up this process.

    On a side note, the 9 million iPhone thing - when the entire world was going nuts about Apple had peaked out and the launch was a non-starter, I had good enough reasons (and info) to believe otherwise - and we're seeing that play out. (I still have a wager that Apple's stock will not go down compared to the launch at the end of the year)

    Everything I wrote is fact. Microsoft is completely clueless when it comes to the consumer market, as evidenced by the colossal failure of the RT, which will be repeated by the S2, unless they completely revamp their marketing strategy.

    Some of you seem to think I'm a Microsoft hater. You're wrong. I want the Surface and Windows Phone to succeed. I want the competition. I'm criticizing Microsoft's astounding stupidity and arrogance when it comes to marketing and intuiting what the consumers will accept
    It's as if they're trying to fail.
    09-26-2013 10:56 AM
  25. Robert Novak1's Avatar
    You know, if RT had a more robust app selection than no one would question the validity of the OS.
    You know if MS would have just created one NEW version of Windows CE, they could have had the unification from the get go....Windows RT should have been WP - the dialer.
    09-26-2013 10:58 AM
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