11-06-2014 02:31 AM
29 12
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  1. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    So I was thinking... I know, first mistake. But back to the Windows Mobile days, pen support was great. Ink to Text, etc.

    And since Samsung has pen support for it's note 3 or Note Tab, etc. I would like the Surface a LOT better with an active digitizer pen, than a keyboard.

    Odd as this sounds, I'd like to take a tablet to church. One for the Mass readings, but also to take annotations of the Homily. Further, I'd use a Surface at the garden center, to look at pictures of my planting beds, and then be able to mark them up, with a pen. Last time I used my finger for diagraming I was playing sandlot football at 15, now 35 years later, I'd rather use an Active Digitizer pen.

    And while the Dell Venue Pro (Am I the ONLY person who thinks a venue (android) and venue pro (windows 8.1) is just a BIT confusing?) is a nice size, I just wouldn't use windows 8.1 at that size. I'd rather have RT. I know, I know, I'm in a small group just wanting RT.

    I want a 14 inch tablet for home, to use with a Bluetooth keyboard, and control my heating system, security, email, and other tasks that are easier to do on a bigger screen, but still a tablet first. I already have a Dell xps15z if I need a traditional notebook, and 2 in 1's just kind of leave me cold.

    So I ask again, why can't surface 2 use an active digitizer pen. It would really help me for my use case.
    sicunder36 likes this.
    10-03-2013 10:40 PM
  2. HarisA1's Avatar
    The surface pro has an additional layer in the screen which interacts with the pen, the RT does not have the digitizer
    onysi, ChefFabrizio and Vistaus like this.
    10-03-2013 10:44 PM
  3. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    Thanks, but would the OS, RT that is, support the additional layer?
    10-03-2013 11:28 PM
  4. bilzkh's Avatar
    Thanks, but would the OS, RT that is, support the additional layer?
    Microsoft managed to bring Windows to ARM, I'm sure they can figure out active digitizer compatibility with Windows RT.

    My guess as to why it hasn't been done or pushed to market is that there's a perception (courtesy of Steve Jobs) that tablets shouldn't have styli, and on top of that, an added belief that the average user probably doesn't care about it. So why add to the cost of your product with a relatively niche addition?

    In my opinion, Microsoft should consider a cheaper version of the Pro, one that uses Intel's i3 or i5 Y chips (mobile) but retains the Wacom digitizer, Windows 8 Pro, etc. Offer it from $599.
    sicunder36 likes this.
    10-04-2013 04:40 AM
  5. HarisA1's Avatar
    They won't bring the pen to RT because it also separates the RT from the PRO line up
    10-04-2013 06:47 AM
  6. jason8957's Avatar
    That was the only thing that bothered me, but it wasn't enough to stop me. My Surface 2 is on order. I am sure that Microsoft was trying very hard to hit a price point here and this was on the cutting board. I am an electrical engineer designing electronics and I see the way features fall off the list for sake of other strategies like cost or schedule.

    I don't know how I'd feel about bringing it in to mass. Perhaps in a parish with a lot of younger folk, like at a university, but I think that it might be too distracting and misunderstood by many in my church and I don't know if it would add much to the experience.

    Your garden center idea does have me thinking though. I need to change how my front walk looks.
    10-04-2013 07:56 AM
  7. HarisA1's Avatar
    You can still get a stylus for the surface rt just can't use the pros stylus
    10-04-2013 07:59 AM
  8. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    Well, yeah, but that would be a capacitive stylus, which is naturally going to be less precise than a proper digitizer pen, and is really just a stand in for a finger, so it lacks the ability to hover over the screen, to right click and to use palm blocking.
    ChefFabrizio likes this.
    10-04-2013 08:49 AM
  9. jaimeastin's Avatar
    So I was thinking... I know, first mistake. But back to the Windows Mobile days, pen support was great. Ink to Text, etc.

    And since Samsung has pen support for it's note 3 or Note Tab, etc. I would like the Surface a LOT better with an active digitizer pen, than a keyboard.

    Odd as this sounds, I'd like to take a tablet to church. One for the Mass readings, but also to take annotations of the Homily. Further, I'd use a Surface at the garden center, to look at pictures of my planting beds, and then be able to mark them up, with a pen. Last time I used my finger for diagraming I was playing sandlot football at 15, now 35 years later, I'd rather use an Active Digitizer pen.

    And while the Dell Venue Pro (Am I the ONLY person who thinks a venue (android) and venue pro (windows 8.1) is just a BIT confusing?) is a nice size, I just wouldn't use windows 8.1 at that size. I'd rather have RT. I know, I know, I'm in a small group just wanting RT.

    I want a 14 inch tablet for home, to use with a Bluetooth keyboard, and control my heating system, security, email, and other tasks that are easier to do on a bigger screen, but still a tablet first. I already have a Dell xps15z if I need a traditional notebook, and 2 in 1's just kind of leave me cold.

    So I ask again, why can't surface 2 use an active digitizer pen. It would really help me for my use case.
    I take my surface rt to church and use one one for everything like my teaching material t, sermon notes, administration notes/tasks, plus. I have not really had to desire to hand write my notes yet... I do wish the surface 2 had that feature. I'm sure it will next version or two.
    10-04-2013 09:00 AM
  10. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    You can still get a stylus for the surface rt just can't use the pros stylus
    In my testing, the use of a capacitive stylus on the RT is significantly worse than using your finger. It appears that the Surface's "passive" digitizer is a lower resolution than the iPad's and assumes finger usage.
    ChefFabrizio likes this.
    10-04-2013 09:32 AM
  11. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    Microsoft managed to bring Windows to ARM, I'm sure they can figure out active digitizer compatibility with Windows RT.

    My guess as to why it hasn't been done or pushed to market is that there's a perception (courtesy of Steve Jobs) that tablets shouldn't have styli, and on top of that, an added belief that the average user probably doesn't care about it. So why add to the cost of your product with a relatively niche addition?

    In my opinion, Microsoft should consider a cheaper version of the Pro, one that uses Intel's i3 or i5 Y chips (mobile) but retains the Wacom digitizer, Windows 8 Pro, etc. Offer it from $599.
    Thanks for your thoughts, for me though, I don't want Windows 8.1 pro on my tablet. I would like the pen layer, but alas, not this round.
    sicunder36 likes this.
    10-04-2013 09:54 AM
  12. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    That was the only thing that bothered me, but it wasn't enough to stop me. My Surface 2 is on order. I am sure that Microsoft was trying very hard to hit a price point here and this was on the cutting board. I am an electrical engineer designing electronics and I see the way features fall off the list for sake of other strategies like cost or schedule.

    I don't know how I'd feel about bringing it in to mass. Perhaps in a parish with a lot of younger folk, like at a university, but I think that it might be too distracting and misunderstood by many in my church and I don't know if it would add much to the experience.

    Your garden center idea does have me thinking though. I need to change how my front walk looks.
    Thank you for the robust reply.

    My wife and I are Catholic, and there are some decent apps, on our Nokia 925's, that we bring into church for Eucharistic adoration. Printed prayer books just aren't available with some of our prayers. We have a Breviary, and access to certain web pages with amazing prayers, that are just not in written form.

    I hear you about how it would appear to others. And yes, we do go to Mass at my University most Sundays, but also a few others depending on scheduling. And for us it would be much better to have a tablet. We could record the audio of a homily. We could take written notes (we've seen others taking notes on Paper). We could also have a checklist for preparing before mass. Heck, if we hit the Lottery, we even want to right THE DEFINITIVE Catholic app. But that aside, we are making the transition to electronic reading and this would be critical to a "personal" device that is the center of our days. Like the old Filofax or Day Planners. Carried everywhere, used all the time.

    Imagine taking notes in OneNote with the Parish announcements, and adding the entry to the Family Room Calendar. Parish Picnic, Saturday, October 25, bring a cake. And done once, and everyone has it. No more "I didn't right down the day, time or needed item".

    My wife and I went to a parish planning meeting, and the priest wanted to open with a prayer and the day's gospel reading. But noted that he forgot his bible. Out came my phone and I just started reading the passage. And all that would have been so much easier on my 8 or 10 inch modern day planner, aka a Surface 2, with a pen.

    just my thoughts, but thanks for yours too.
    10-04-2013 10:06 AM
  13. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    They won't bring the pen to RT because it also separates the RT from the PRO line up
    to me, the more important defining criteria, is a useable desktop. If MS got smart and had a 8 or 9 inch portrait Surface RT, with pen, and a 12-14 inch Surface Pro, I'd buy BOTH, not just one or the other. But when the Surface 2 and Surface pro 2, are the same size, I wouldn't consider both. And in fact, without a pen on the Surface 2, I'm strongly considering the Dell Venue Pro at 8 inches. yes, it has full windows 8. But critically it has a pen.

    I used to own two HP convertible tablets. Granted they ran windows 7, but the PEN was a critical piece, used it all the time. It's way easier to critique a resume (I volunteer as a career counselor at my University), with a pen input, than with a keyboard. Keyboards put people off. They create a distance, but not a lot of folks are upset about using a pen, and it's very easy to highlight text to bring out your point. Then forward the marked up word document.
    10-04-2013 10:15 AM
  14. lafester's Avatar
    You could also get the venue pro 11 w/ 10.8" screen.
    I don't see any reason to restrict yourself to RT since you can use full 8.1 just like RT if you desire.
    10-04-2013 06:09 PM
  15. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    Yeah, the only reason to stick with RT is wanting the Surface's form factor and construction. Otherwise you could just as easily pick up a Bay Trail tablet that has a digitizer for a similar price.
    10-04-2013 06:16 PM
  16. HarisA1's Avatar
    The feel of the RT is just too nice and premium to let it ago lol
    10-04-2013 06:49 PM
  17. ca_meo's Avatar
    What about an optional blade with a digitizer layer? Not the best solution but a possibility
    10-09-2013 06:10 AM
  18. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    That could happen, but if Windows RT has drivers for a cheap Wacom tablet, that might be preferable. I have no idea if it does though
    10-09-2013 08:13 AM
  19. Letros's Avatar
    Surface with Baytrail + active digitizer for $500-600, I would drop cash on that without hesitation. I understand MS wants to keep RT alive, because it does have a future with the phone merging plans, but we need some more options.
    sicunder36 likes this.
    10-09-2013 08:21 AM
  20. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    To me a blade further distances the use. Why have a touchscreen if you will use a blade? I know you said it wasn't the best solution. So, I'm just being the Devil's advocate. I don't even really want a keyboard with this device.

    And I know there are options with full windows, but I really want my phone experience on an 8 inch device, with an active pen. The Dell pen's I recently read, are synaptic pens with batteries, and to me they look awful.

    I guess I want, in round 2, the device that isn't coming. An up to 10 inch devices, with RT and a Wacom pen. I very much want to use OneNote with a pen, and not a keyboard.


    What about an optional blade with a digitizer layer? Not the best solution but a possibility
    10-10-2013 12:05 PM
  21. michfan's Avatar
    I guess I want, in round 2, the device that isn't coming. An up to 10 inch devices, with RT and a Wacom pen. I very much want to use OneNote with a pen, and not a keyboard.
    Same here. I can't understand why MS is seemingly so close with One Note on Surface, yet can't make this final design decision to seal the deal.
    ChefFabrizio likes this.
    10-10-2013 01:20 PM
  22. Jealy666's Avatar
    I can at least confirm what is already known. I tried to use my friend's Surface Pro pen with my Surface 2 - nothing whatsoever registered.

    I think I'll get a normal stylus for writing's sake.
    10-19-2013 04:00 PM
  23. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I can at least confirm what is already known. I tried to use my friend's Surface Pro pen with my Surface 2 - nothing whatsoever registered.

    I think I'll get a normal stylus for writing's sake.
    Just be warned, I've heard that, at least on the Surface RT, it was specifically calibrated for fingers, so using a stylus could actually reduce accuracy.
    10-19-2013 04:01 PM
  24. ca_meo's Avatar
    Anybody saw the Adonit Script? Jot Script Fine Point Stylus for iPad & iOS - Evernote Edition

    i asked them about their future plans on windows tablets because the surface community would love to see an optional stylus with a small tip and palmblocking....
    thats what they replied:

    Hi there ......;

    Well I have test the Script on some windows tablets and it seems to work pretty well, if not exactly as good as it works on the iPad. However it's special features are specific to iOS devices for now. We are looking into expanding into other markets, but I couldn't really give you anything specific right now on when we might see integration outside iOS. There are some development barriers we have been working on getting past from what I understand. However once we do have information to share about that we will certainly be letting everyone know via our website and social media channels.

    Chase
    Adonit Support
    10-25-2013 04:21 AM
  25. jMawl's Avatar
    Anybody saw the Adonit Script? Jot Script Fine Point Stylus for iPad & iOS - Evernote Edition

    i asked them about their future plans on windows tablets because the surface community would love to see an optional stylus with a small tip and palmblocking....
    thats what they replied:

    Hi there ......;

    Well I have test the Script on some windows tablets and it seems to work pretty well, if not exactly as good as it works on the iPad. However it's special features are specific to iOS devices for now. We are looking into expanding into other markets, but I couldn't really give you anything specific right now on when we might see integration outside iOS. There are some development barriers we have been working on getting past from what I understand. However once we do have information to share about that we will certainly be letting everyone know via our website and social media channels.

    Chase
    Adonit Support
    I was wondering about support for this as well. I didn't even realize this type of pen existed until I was out looking at styli for my surface 2 yesterday. Wacom also makes a blue tooth connected active stylus for capacitive devices:
    https://store.wacom.com/us/en/product/CS500PK0?
    The Wacom device seems more directed at having a lot of pressure levels than at high precision, but the concept seems similar. I think I like the Jot Touch and Jot Script better, though. Do you think if we start spanning Adonit it would help? I think a lot of people would welcome this.
    10-25-2013 09:51 AM
29 12

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