11-09-2013 09:55 AM
40 12
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  1. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    The surface is a great tablet, it has all the great specs on paper and even without 1,0000,0000,000 apps should provide good value. What's the massive problem then? Its a tablet. Try holding it like one. See how hard it was, so does the average consumer. Its extremely awkward to use as a tablet in Landscape and portrait, I think the 2520 should fix these problems, but what do you think ?
    11-06-2013 01:42 PM
  2. Kiddo2050's Avatar
    I don't have any issues holding it. When I read I mostly hold it portrait and it feels like a magazine. Perfect.
    steve_w_7 and Jazmac like this.
    11-06-2013 01:54 PM
  3. HeyCori's Avatar
    The surface is a great tablet, it has all the great specs on paper and even without 1,0000,0000,000 apps should provide good value. What's the massive problem then? Its a tablet. Try holding it like one. See how hard it was, so does the average consumer. Its extremely awkward to use as a tablet in Landscape and portrait, I think the 2520 should fix these problems, but what do you think ?
    What makes you think the 2520 will fix these "problems" considering it has the exact same form factor?

    Nokia Lumia 2520 - 4G Tablet with Keyboard - Nokia - USA
    xandros9 and Muessig like this.
    11-06-2013 02:00 PM
  4. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Yup, except its 10.1 inches, thinner and lighter
    11-06-2013 02:11 PM
  5. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Just noted the title was edited, i do think this is a major design flaw
    11-06-2013 02:15 PM
  6. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Yup, except its 10.1 inches, thinner and lighter
    It isn't the thickness or weight that makes the Surface awkward to use as a tablet but the aspect ratio. 16:9/16:10 is the issue, in my opinion.

    That's why when I recommend the Surface RT/2, I don't frame the discussion as it being an iPad replacement but a netbook replacement. In that context (netbook replacement) the Surface becomes an easy sell. Not so as an iPad replacement.
    xandros9 likes this.
    11-06-2013 02:17 PM
  7. chezm's Avatar
    I personally do not understand this complaint as i love using my Surface Pro 2 as a tablet in landscape or portrait (especially portrait). Maybe its because i come from using a Nexus 7 which has a similar screen dimension? (dont hold me to this, just giving an example from a distant prospective).
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    11-06-2013 02:36 PM
  8. cygnus11's Avatar
    It isn't the thickness or weight that makes the Surface awkward to use as a tablet but the aspect ratio. 16:9/16:10 is the issue, in my opinion.
    I just don't agree with people who think 4:3 aspect ratio is better than 16:9. How is it better? Having the aspect ratio match the standard for most modern media makes it a significantly better media consumption device. The extra width also allows for better multitasking by having more width for multiple apps.

    The overall size and weight have more to do with how comfortable it is to hold a device. No one would argue that most modern smart phones are hard to hold, and their aspect ratios are much closer to 16:9 than 4:3.

    I don't think most people hold a tablet most of the time that they use it. I would bet that people have their tablets resting on a surface for more than 90% of their usage. Hence the popularity of cover/stands. To judge a tablet by how comfortable it is to hold just seems silly to me.
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    11-06-2013 02:41 PM
  9. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I just don't agree with people who think 4:3 aspect ratio is better than 16:9. How is it better? Having the aspect ratio match the standard for most modern media makes it a significantly better media consumption device. The extra width also allows for better multitasking by having more width for multiple apps.

    The overall size and weight have more to do with how comfortable it is to hold a device. No one would argue that most modern smart phones are hard to hold, and their aspect ratios are much closer to 16:9 than 4:3.

    I don't think most people hold a tablet most of the time that they use it. I would bet that people have their tablets resting on a surface for more than 90% of their usage. Hence the popularity of cover/stands. To judge a tablet by how comfortable it is to hold just seems silly to me.
    Well, if you don't agree then you don't agree. That's ok. I'm not on a crusade to convince anyone.

    Having said that, your comparison to smartphones is not a valid one. Smartphones are intended to be held in a single hand and as such keeping it narrow is preferable. There is no such need with a tablet.

    With regard to media, you are focusing primarily on video. And not all video is 16:9. Most modern films are wider than that. Printed material, at least in the US, is much closer to 4:3.

    16:9 is an awkward AR for a tablet because.... in portrait mode, the screen is too narrow causing the onscreen keyboard to feel cramped. In landscape mode, the onscreen keyboard takes up more than 1/2 of the screen space.
    11-06-2013 02:52 PM
  10. cygnus11's Avatar
    16:9 is by far the most popular standard for consumer displays. It seems that Apple decided not to use this AR for the ipad based on the primary use case of simulating paper in a person's hand (this is just a guess on my part - i don't know all of the factors going into their decision). But in my opinion, tablets have been used more as both media consumption devices and portable computing devices than for uses that simulate portable electronic paper. So IMO, a tablet's AR should be optimized for what it will be used for most. In the use cases that interest me the most, 16:9 is far superior to 4:3.

    A change in AR of a display always seems awkward at first. I believe that so many people are just so used to the ipad's 4:3 that when they first use a 16:9 tablet they just think it feels wrong. But given the time to get used to it, I think most people would get comfortable with it and learn to love it.
    11-06-2013 03:04 PM
  11. Rayban7's Avatar
    I replaced my ipad with a surface. Don't regret it one bit.
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    11-06-2013 03:11 PM
  12. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    In portrait mode Surface is absolutely awkward to hold. I really don't see how anyone could deny that. It's just to long and narrow to make sense... However landscape mode is a different story.

    Microsoft designed Windows 8 and the Surface by extension to be operated with your thumbs. In other words, you hold the tablet with two hands and use your thumbs to flip through the UI, This actually works really well and it does make the tablet perfectly comfortable to hold, although this is likely not how you're going to be using it 80-90% of the time. Like WillysJeepMan said above, this is really more of a netbook than a tablet. It is a PC before it is a consumption device.

    That isn't to say that it can't be used for consumption, of course. I find it's excellent for browsing the web, watching movies and viewing pictures from my phone. Though when I do I usually have a mouse plugged in and the Surface is propped up on a table, desk, or my lap.
    11-06-2013 05:39 PM
  13. chezm's Avatar
    I love portrait mode...feel like im reading a long, fat, heavy scroll lol
    11-06-2013 06:32 PM
  14. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    You really know how to sell it
    txkimmers and chezm like this.
    11-06-2013 07:23 PM
  15. Daylife's Avatar
    Thats weird, i hold my Surface 2 ALL the time and no issues or complaints....IIll like 16:9 over 4:3 any day lol....4:3 is laughable and just bad. But thats just my opinion.
    Deutscher2 and steve_w_7 like this.
    11-06-2013 07:44 PM
  16. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    It's totally coincidental that I'm holding my surface in portrait mode when is see this thread, and typing using the on screen keyboard. Portrait was a little odd at first but I like it a LOT now. I have no issues with the 16:9 aspect ratio. I also find it more comfortable to hold in portrait mode. My only complaint is that my thumb wants to be right over the windows (home) button so that kinda sucks.
    11-06-2013 08:02 PM
  17. jonathanrn's Avatar
    I agree with jlzimmerman. At first portrait on the surface was strange, but now I almost prefer it to anything other than watching a video, of course.
    11-06-2013 08:28 PM
  18. cygnus11's Avatar
    I use my surface in landscape mode almost exclusively. While browsing the web, reading email, or streaming video, it is almost always sitting on my lap. I just can't think of too many activities that I would use my table while holding it. Am I weird? Maybe I'm just lazy.
    11-06-2013 09:23 PM
  19. stephen_az's Avatar
    The surface is a great tablet, it has all the great specs on paper and even without 1,0000,0000,000 apps should provide good value. What's the massive problem then? Its a tablet. Try holding it like one. See how hard it was, so does the average consumer. Its extremely awkward to use as a tablet in Landscape and portrait, I think the 2520 should fix these problems, but what do you think ?
    So you are a spokesperson for the average consumer? No, I think you are probably speaking for you. I have owned a Surface RT, Surface Pro, Dell XPS 12, and Asus Transformer Prime, and have used an Asus VivoTab Smart and Lenovo Yoga 11S. They all share the same form factor and screen ratio, with the Yoga 11S and XPS 12 being fractionally larger in raw size. I have found none of them to be awkward and, as has been noted, the Nokia you say will be different is the same size as Surface and only a bit thinner. I also have a bone spur affecting a couple cervical vertebrae that has slightly weakened and cost me some dexterity in one hand and yet I find the Surface models to be the best balanced and the ones I kept in the end. Ironically, of all the tablets on the market, it is the book ratio iPad that I find most clumsy because its screen ratio abandoned the very long laptop convention. The point of this is to stress that this really is a case of "to each their own" as it is a matter of preference, and to point out that the only person for whom you speak is you. I wouldn't bother to comment at all if you simply said you find it awkward. Everyone has a right to a preference. Adding in the always annoying average consumer stuff prompts the response. Add up all of the Android and Windows tablets based on the same screen ratio and (often) same dimensions and then consider whether there is an average consumer.
    segana likes this.
    11-07-2013 12:59 AM
  20. ynotbike's Avatar
    I actually like using it in portrait, great for reading comics
    calfee20 likes this.
    11-07-2013 11:27 AM
  21. SeeVuPlay's Avatar
    I agree with you. I think everyone is used to the ipad. i love the Surface aspect ratio
    11-07-2013 08:30 PM
  22. SeeVuPlay's Avatar
    In portrait mode, i use the split keyboard and it works beautifully
    11-07-2013 08:32 PM
  23. Jazmac's Avatar
    I just don't agree with people who think 4:3 aspect ratio is better than 16:9. How is it better? Having the aspect ratio match the standard for most modern media makes it a significantly better media consumption device. The extra width also allows for better multitasking by having more width for multiple apps.

    The overall size and weight have more to do with how comfortable it is to hold a device. No one would argue that most modern smart phones are hard to hold, and their aspect ratios are much closer to 16:9 than 4:3.

    I don't think most people hold a tablet most of the time that they use it. I would bet that people have their tablets resting on a surface for more than 90% of their usage. Hence the popularity of cover/stands. To judge a tablet by how comfortable it is to hold just seems silly to me.
    I respect his points of view but he has that IOS filter on so MS will never quite measure up. I use it portrait taking notes at work. Easier on the thumbs for typing and the page looks like a sheet of that yellow legal pad... only white. lol.
    11-08-2013 10:06 AM
  24. steve_w_7's Avatar
    There are obviously times when it makes more sense to use the Surface in landscape mode vs. portrait mode, but I would never consider it to be awkward. If it's awkward to you, you're doing it wrong. I have found many times where it makes better sense to use it in portrait mode and I find it easier to hold. I use a stylus to take notes in OneNote using the handwriting keyboard and portrait mode is far superior to landscape mode in my opinion. Books and magazines are also much easier to read and feels more natural in portrait mode and it's easier to hold with one hand - it feels more balanced to me. I think MS nailed it with Surface - the most under-rated tablet on the market in my opinion.
    11-08-2013 11:54 AM
  25. inteller's Avatar
    facebook app is awesome in portrait mode....looks like **** that way on iPad.
    11-08-2013 12:03 PM
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