No Surface 3 (RT)?

[WillysJeepMan]

I wouldn't mind killing the desktop legacy completely, for RT devices once Office is ready in store and more apps arrive. Pro devices should keep the desktop.

Sent from my Lumia 1020 using Tapatalk

I'd mind, but I appreciate that you added that requirement for a Modern UI version of Office and the addition or more apps.

My 10 months of Windows RT ownership (Surface RT now Surface 2) has given me a clearer picture of what spot a Windows RT Surface device could fit in my workflow /use cases.

Microsoft is close... very close.

Desktop - I love the desktop for use with the keyboard cover. Very, very usable and very useful. I like having the higher density of information in that mode (which is not possible when operating in touch mode). Extended monitory support in conjunction with the desktop is terrific. I'd like to see MORE desktop apps for Windows RT.

Modern UI - obviously, this is optimized for touch use. It's not the quantity of apps that are an issue for me, it is the quality of those apps, and there still categories of apps where there is nothing. It is the state of the app situation that makes for an irritating user experience for me when using the Surface 2 as a tablet.

As cumbersome as I find using the desktop in touch mode, I find it cumbersome to use the Modern UI in "netbook mode" (using the TypeCover2).

Ideally, I'd like to see Microsoft develop an architecture that would detect if a keyboard is attached (ignore it if it is attached but reversed) and automatically select the desktop or Modern UI version of an app accordingly.

Maybe, but I do like - indeed prefer - the 3:2/ 4:3 aspect ratio - this is because of my work-related needs - which is also why I would like a Surface 3 with that format. But I can see how MS may want to differentiate their product lines. Regardless, I will, most likely, be opting for the SP3 shortly.

3:2 / 4:3 absolutely!

I was extremely tempted to put my order in for an SP3... but I can't get past the inferior tablet experience of Windows 8.1 (RT or x86). The last thing that I'd want to do is to shell out the money for an SP3 only to fall back to using my iPad 4 when I wanted to use a tablet as a tablet.

When I say "inferior tablet experience" I'm really referring to the availability of the apps, not the Modern UI itself.

 

[Nickkk101]

When I say "inferior tablet experience" I'm really referring to the availability of the apps, not the Modern UI itself.

Thats a great point, and i love my Surface 2 too- however i will say there isn't anything I'm missing currently from my own usage case. What do reckon to the convergence of Win Phone (and its Store) and RT in next years rumoured 'Threshold/Win 9' yourself?

I'm of the opinion that even the addition of that app store alone would be incredible, regardless of any UX changes. In fact, one of the reasons i went for the S2 was to look forward to that development. Who knows what will happen of course but its fascinating nonetheless.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Thats a great point, and i love my Surface 2 too- however i will say there isn't anything I'm missing currently from my own usage case. What do reckon to the convergence of Win Phone (and its Store) and RT in next years rumoured 'Threshold/Win 9' yourself?

I'm of the opinion that even the addition of that app store alone would be incredible, regardless of any UX changes. In fact, one of the reasons i went for the S2 was to look forward to that development. Who knows what will happen of course but its fascinating nonetheless.

I'm not too hopeful, primarily because I don't know exactly what Microsoft will deliver. (I know what they've hinted at and what some have speculated)

Will their convergence be simply at the store level... a single storefront portal for WP and RT apps? Currently RT apps are in the same store as x86 Windows 8 apps so will Microsoft remove ARM apps from the Windows 8 store and move them to this WP/RT store?

I have a Lumia 520. Love it. But I can't say that I'm impressed with the quality of the apps available for WP8. They don't seem to be any more functional or higher quality than what is currently available for Windows RT.

This isn't the first time that Microsoft hinted at convergence of some of their platforms. How many years will it take to actually happen (not just at the system level but the app level)?

My concern about all this WP/RT convergence talk is that RT will be dumbed down, and the Surface 2 (aka Zune Tablet) will suffer the same fate as the Zune.

 

[Cruncher04]

My concern about all this WP/RT convergence talk is that RT will be dumbed down

That is just a rumour made by people who do not understand the background. They think of RT as a third OS in the middle of WP and Windows, while in fact RT is just Windows.
If you think of RT as the ARM build of Windows it will always be the ARM build of Windows and not possibly something else.

Now regarding the App Store. There are several options. Microsoft could, in theory, integrate the runtime environment of Windows Phone into Windows. Making most of the apps instantly executable under RT and many of the apps even under x86 Windows.
This would have the disadvantage, that you still have different apps for Windows Phone and Windows. Its just that the Phone apps also work under Windows.
Therefore I assume that Microsoft will try to unify both runtime environments (WinPRT WinRT) such that you gain app compatibility when building for this new uniform environment. This has the disadvantage, that it is only applicable to future apps.

 

[Nickkk101]

That is just a rumour made by people who do not understand the background. They think of RT as a third OS in the middle of WP and Windows, while in fact RT is just Windows.
If you think of RT as the ARM build of Windows it will always be the ARM build of Windows and not possibly something else.

Now regarding the App Store. There are several options. Microsoft could, in theory, integrate the runtime environment of Windows Phone into Windows. Making most of the apps instantly executable under RT and many of the apps even under x86 Windows.
This would have the disadvantage, that you still have different apps for Windows Phone and Windows. Its just that the Phone apps also work under Windows.
Therefore I assume that Microsoft will try to unify both runtime environments (WinPRT WinRT) such that you gain app compatibility when building for this new uniform environment. This has the disadvantage, that it is only applicable to future apps.

hmmmmm *strokes chin*

 

[Chris_Kez]

I've been using a DV8Pro for 3 months, and a Lumia 920 for 18 months, both now on 8.1. I am really hoping they can combine these in a sensible way. Give me app interoperability. And I'd really like tablets to have Cortana and the WP keyboard (with my custom dictionary and suggestions), as well as a notification center. Bring some of the gesture based UI over to the phone. Let the phone's Start screen work in landscape mode and bring over the Large square tiles and grouping functions. I don't know enough under the hood stuff to speculate much more, but at least on the surface they have a lot of really nice pieces to start with. Hopefully it wont have the somewhat jarring disconnect of Windows 8.

 

[RN50]

Is it worth getting the Surface 2? Its been out for half a year now and I was expecting the Surface 3 to be released.
I don't want to buy it then 3-6 months later Microsoft announce the Surface 3.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Is it worth getting the Surface 2? Its been out for half a year now and I was expecting the Surface 3 to be released.
I don't want to buy it then 3-6 months later Microsoft announce the Surface 3.

There is always that danger, especially when purchasing Microsoft hardware. There's no guarantee that a Surface 3 will be released, and if one is, what it will consist of.

I think it would be helpful to ask yourself what are the things about the Surface 2 that you don't like, and how would you feel if Microsoft addressed those issues in Sept. If those things are minor, then Microsoft potentially releasing a follow-on Surface 3 that addresses them shouldn't be an issue for you.

I think that the 2 most likely changes for a potential Surface 3 are a change to the aspect ratio and change to the charging port. This would help keep the RT and Pro lines compatible with accessories.

 

[stogdan]

Anyone else dissapointed that a Surface3 with WinRT was not announced along with the pro? I wonder if it will come at a later time, or whether it can now be considered discontinued.

For me there is still value in the RT model - cheaper, light, better battery and a good companion device if you already own a modern laptop.

Here are my general thoughts about Windows RT after using a Asus VivoTab for almost 1,5 years. While the device itself is sturdy and stable (a few hiccups) over a period of 1,5 years is acceptable in my book it is not without pros and cons.

What I love about Windows RT and VivoTab RT in particular:
- Excellent battery life. Comparable to iPad in my opinion.
- Reviewers hate to bash the "mixed" world on all Windows 8.x devices including RT. But this has also proven to be a strength even for RT. To be able to copy documents on the fly with a USB stick and immediately get access to pictures from my camera while traveling. They are both good examples on a few areas people have actually been a bit jealous of compared to their pads (usually iPads..).
- GPS + built in 3G was a must have in a tablet for me and for the same reason the first gen Surface was not an option for me.
- Office 2013.

The negatives:
- While its great that Office is built in. The rest of the experience is mostly touch driven on any RT device. Desktop apps is not very touch friendly. And to be honest I find it a bit insulting that Microsoft prioritize other platforms over their own for the touch version. At the very least I hope it does not require a subscription even for RT devices when it finally does arrive..
- While I am not the one to complain about apps. As I think most of them are useless and in most cases redundant. There are a few that have bugged me for quite a while either cause it's missing or simply because its lacking:

• Cisco Anyconnect
• Maps

Cisco Anyconnect:
Yes it is true that Microsoft got their act together and opened up with RT 8.1 and WP 8.1. But why did it take them this long? In my opinion this should have been a day one feature on WP 8 and Windows RT. I have at least 10 colleagues that is finally willing to consider WP when Cisco releases their app on WP, but not before.. While Microsoft may to build the VPN apps. I think most of the delay is caused by them and not the third parties on this one.

- Maps. It may work in the US like most of Microsofts services apparently do. But in most parts of the rest of the world most of their services do not. Maps is my biggest let down from Microsoft. The App was mediocre when shipped with Windows 8/RT and still is sub-par to this day. Here maps solved some of my frustrations when it finally launched for all devices but even this one is not all that good. The fact that even the 4G version of Surface 2 is shipped without a GPS chip tells me that Microsoft simply is not taking this field serious enough.. The lumia tablet is better this way. But I simply find the Surface design more appealing when compared.

Windows RT may be remembered by IT media as a flop / mistake or whatever in the far future. But I believe it was necessary not just to teach Intel a lesson (Haswell with greatly improved battery launched shortly after...). But also because I do not think this is the last we will see of it. Mobile devices is one thing, but if rumors are true that even Apple is working on a ARM based macbook and with 64 bit ARM chips getting better and better. It may not be that far fetched to imagine servers (perhaps budget) running in servers down the road. If that is true, the efforts of Windows RT may not be as bad as many people will have it to be today.

Will I go for another RT tablet? I want to say yes. But it saddens me to say that while it has been a trusty travel companion. The lack of VPN and a few apps (not many) have actually prevented me from doing much of actual work on it.

I have just recently bought a new laptop. A Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro tablet / laptop. While it is a lot bigger than the VivoTab. I can do work on it and while it lacks 4G it doesn't matter since it runs full Windows and I solve that part with a USB dongle.. For my consuming / entertainment needs that my VivoTab is mostly filling today. I am strongly considering to replace it with an iPad. Since I am unable to work on it. I might as well work on my laptop and use the tablet as a purely consuming device.

 

[wormy6]

Surface 3 is still very necessary to compete with the iPad Air. I am looking forward to getting it, I will be really disappointed if they don't make it or if it isn't as thin and light as other tablets.

 

[anon(5348756)]

There might not be a Surface 3 per se if MS ends up branding ARM devices as Lumia. In any case, and despite branding, I hope they keep an ARM Surface like lineup that keeps compatibility with current accessories. It would be great to upgrade my RT to a S3 or whatever they call it and keep being able to use my Type cover 2. Here's to hoping, otherwise I'll probably get a S2 on the cheap when they do a fire sale this fall (if they discontinue ARM lineup for 10" tablets).