07-12-2014 12:12 AM
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  1. slysy's Avatar
    Anyone else dissapointed that a Surface3 with WinRT was not announced along with the pro? I wonder if it will come at a later time, or whether it can now be considered discontinued.

    For me there is still value in the RT model - cheaper, light, better battery and a good companion device if you already own a modern laptop.
    05-24-2014 04:35 AM
  2. Paul Nicholas's Avatar
    I'll be honest I have a Surface 2 and I can't wait to change to an intel cherry trail tablet at Christmas, I thought a Surface 2 would fill all of my needs but I do miss the power of full windows sometimes.
    I'm really hoping the Surface 3 is intel powered or I'll be looking at lenovo, asus or dell.
    Beijendorf likes this.
    05-24-2014 04:40 AM
  3. Ryan ODonnell's Avatar
    Anyone else dissapointed that a Surface3 with WinRT was not announced along with the pro? I wonder if it will come at a later time, or whether it can now be considered discontinued.

    For me there is still value in the RT model - cheaper, light, better battery and a good companion device if you already own a modern laptop.
    I agree, I would actually love this with the screen size and the pen and everything!
    Shame they did not announce it, alongside with a Surface Mini!
    Microsoft would have had my money if they released that, as I've previously owned a Surface RT (Original) and was very satisfied with it
    05-24-2014 04:40 AM
  4. Cruncher04's Avatar
    They cannot announce, what's not available. Both the snapdragon 805 and the Tegra K1 will be only available in the second half of the year. If Microsoft is shooting for the 64 bit version of the Tegra K1, it will be closer to holidays.
    From early benchmarks, Tegra K1 seems to be the SoC to own this holiday season.

    I'm really hoping the Surface 3 is intel powered or I'll be looking at lenovo, asus or dell.
    You give the perfect reason(among others), why Microsoft should stay with ARM. While you can easily chose an Asus device with Windows while anyone preferring ARM would need to go Android or Apple.
    05-24-2014 07:00 AM
  5. benrp's Avatar
    Because the RT line had a major refresh, while the Pro lines 2013 refresh was more minor. My guess is Microsoft has staggered the releases to ensure each release is substantial.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    05-24-2014 07:05 AM
  6. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    Whatever be the reason, if MS does release a revamped Surface 3, I hope they have the sense to include the Pen with it - though I am not holding my breath. The only worrying thing is that now the profile of the Surface Pro 3 and the Surface 3 (except for the weight, possibly) has considerably narrowed. If MS is going to keep the RT alive then I think they will go for a smaller device (with a Pen). But for that to happen, they will have to wait till the Modern UI version of Office is ready.
    05-24-2014 08:21 AM
  7. Cruncher04's Avatar
    The only worrying thing is that now the profile of the Surface Pro 3 and the Surface 3 (except for the weight, possibly) has considerably narrowed
    Do you know anything about the Surface 3, no one else knows? Mind sharing?
    05-24-2014 08:49 AM
  8. ygtgngr's Avatar
    I don't think they can sell RT devices any more, full Windows tablets are now down to ~249, no one will pay more than that for a less functioning OS
    Beijendorf likes this.
    05-24-2014 08:51 AM
  9. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    Do you know anything about the Surface 3, no one else knows? Mind sharing?
    I know nothing other than what I have been reading (and seeing on Youtube) about speculations about a RT device in light of the release of the SP3. All just speculation - some more sensible than others. Personally, I have no original inputs.

    My personal preference, however, would have been a Surface 3 in exactly the same dimensions as the SP3 with the N-Trig Pen capability. But that is purely based on my use-case. I don't think that is going to happen though.
    stnm likes this.
    05-24-2014 09:31 AM
  10. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I don't think they can sell RT devices any more, full Windows tablets are now down to ~249, no one will pay more than that for a less functioning OS
    Microsoft also announced that "Windows with Bing" would be $15 per license for hardware manufacturers (down from $50). That will probably bring 8" Windows 8.1 x86 tablets below $200. With that news, I would be quite surprised if there were any more Windows RT equipped Surface devices.
    ygtgngr and Jazmac like this.
    05-24-2014 02:00 PM
  11. slysy's Avatar
    I don't think they can sell RT devices any more, full Windows tablets are now down to ~249, no one will pay more than that for a less functioning OS
    But full Windows tablets are usually heavier and require a fan etc. If they could make a Surface 3 (RT) that weighed about the same as an iPad Air, for me it would be very appealing.
    stnm likes this.
    05-24-2014 03:09 PM
  12. ygtgngr's Avatar
    But full Windows tablets are usually heavier and require a fan etc. If they could make a Surface 3 (RT) that weighed about the same as an iPad Air, for me it would be very appealing.
    iPad 4 was 1.5 pounds, Asus T100 is slightly over 2 pounds. I don't think Windows tablets are massively weighted. Also, tablets with Atom processors are fan-less. Anyway, there is no point in buying a compressed OS like iOS or RT, for the same price that you can buy a fully featured PC.
    05-24-2014 03:27 PM
  13. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Microsoft also announced that "Windows with Bing" would be $15 per license for hardware manufacturers (down from $50). That will probably bring 8" Windows 8.1 x86 tablets below $200. With that news, I would be quite surprised if there were any more Windows RT equipped Surface devices.
    Windows below 10 inches is free anyway
    05-24-2014 03:45 PM
  14. FinancialP's Avatar
    I'm kinda disappointed. I was hoping a RT 3 would drive down the price of the original Surface RT some more.

    I'm still considering buying one anyway.
    05-24-2014 03:51 PM
  15. jojoe42's Avatar
    But full Windows tablets are usually heavier and require a fan etc. If they could make a Surface 3 (RT) that weighed about the same as an iPad Air, for me it would be very appealing.
    +1020

    If they could make the Surface 3 a must-have product in terms of design (super thin and good specs), and put it at the right price point (if they made it cheaper or bundled it WITH the touch cover) then I can see good reason for my entire school to buy them - some people (including me) have Surface tablets and love them, but considering you can still get an iPad 3 or 4 for less, with a keyboard for slightly more than a Surface 2 by itself it's just getting ignored. Lots of people in my classes get pretty frustrated with their iPads though :P mainly because the productivity apps are pretty terrible in comparison to Office
    05-24-2014 03:53 PM
  16. Cruncher04's Avatar
    no one will pay more than that for a less functioning OS
    . Anyway, there is no point in buying a compressed OS like iOS or RT
    Apparently you have no clue what Windows RT actually is. It is a full featured Windows and matches x86 Windows feature by feature. It is simply the very same Windows compiled for ARM processors. Comparing it to iOS is just stupid. What ARM devices are lacking is the ability to run x86 code. This is not a Windows RT issue.

    Having this out of the way I am getting to my real point of this post. Intel processors and in particular Baytrail are far behind, when it comes to multimedia/GPU performance (games etc.). Being mainly for consumption devices, customers will just pick the SoC with best performance, which at the same time minimize power consumption.
    Once you are at the point, that you decided to not need legacy desktop programs on your tablet you can make the above choice - getting the best SoC for your needs. We can be lucky, that we still have this choice with Windows RT. It would be terrible for the Windows ecosystem, if the best mobile SoCs are only available for competing ecosystems.

    iPad 4 was 1.5 pounds, Asus T100 is slightly over 2 pounds.
    iPad air is 1 pound, while having a significantly higher screen resolution. At the same time A7 outclasses Baytrail in performance and power by a significant margin. A7 is a very good showcase of what ARM architecure is capable of. Recently released Tegra K1 seems to be a good match for Apples next iteration, the A8.
    Last edited by Cruncher04; 05-25-2014 at 06:11 AM.
    WillysJeepMan likes this.
    05-25-2014 05:51 AM
  17. ZvjerOPC's Avatar
    I wouldn't mind killing the desktop legacy completely, for RT devices once Office is ready in store and more apps arrive. Pro devices should keep the desktop.

    Sent from my Lumia 1020 using Tapatalk
    05-25-2014 06:00 AM
  18. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    Ideally, I'd like a Surface 3 too - but in the dimensions of the SP3. And, I'd like it with the same Pen capabilities. But I am not sure MS is going to oblige.
    WillysJeepMan likes this.
    05-25-2014 06:05 AM
  19. Cruncher04's Avatar
    Ideally, I'd like a Surface 3 too - but in the dimensions of the SP3. And, I'd like it with the same Pen capabilities. But I am not sure MS is going to oblige.
    I'd say they need to widen the choice instead of unify everything. SP3 3:2 12'', S3 16:9 10'' and S mini 4:3 8'' seems like a good idea. Pen capabilities in the S3 would be cool though.
    anon(5348756) likes this.
    05-25-2014 06:15 AM
  20. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    I'd say they need to widen the choice instead of unify everything. SP3 3:2 12'', S3 16:9 10'' and S mini 4:3 8'' seems like a good idea. Pen capabilities in the S3 would be cool though.
    Maybe, but I do like - indeed prefer - the 3:2/ 4:3 aspect ratio - this is because of my work-related needs - which is also why I would like a Surface 3 with that format. But I can see how MS may want to differentiate their product lines. Regardless, I will, most likely, be opting for the SP3 shortly.
    05-25-2014 06:43 AM
  21. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I wouldn't mind killing the desktop legacy completely, for RT devices once Office is ready in store and more apps arrive. Pro devices should keep the desktop.

    Sent from my Lumia 1020 using Tapatalk
    I'd mind, but I appreciate that you added that requirement for a Modern UI version of Office and the addition or more apps.

    My 10 months of Windows RT ownership (Surface RT now Surface 2) has given me a clearer picture of what spot a Windows RT Surface device could fit in my workflow /use cases.

    Microsoft is close... very close.

    Desktop - I love the desktop for use with the keyboard cover. Very, very usable and very useful. I like having the higher density of information in that mode (which is not possible when operating in touch mode). Extended monitory support in conjunction with the desktop is terrific. I'd like to see MORE desktop apps for Windows RT.

    Modern UI - obviously, this is optimized for touch use. It's not the quantity of apps that are an issue for me, it is the quality of those apps, and there still categories of apps where there is nothing. It is the state of the app situation that makes for an irritating user experience for me when using the Surface 2 as a tablet.

    As cumbersome as I find using the desktop in touch mode, I find it cumbersome to use the Modern UI in "netbook mode" (using the TypeCover2).

    Ideally, I'd like to see Microsoft develop an architecture that would detect if a keyboard is attached (ignore it if it is attached but reversed) and automatically select the desktop or Modern UI version of an app accordingly.


    Maybe, but I do like - indeed prefer - the 3:2/ 4:3 aspect ratio - this is because of my work-related needs - which is also why I would like a Surface 3 with that format. But I can see how MS may want to differentiate their product lines. Regardless, I will, most likely, be opting for the SP3 shortly.
    3:2 / 4:3 absolutely!

    I was extremely tempted to put my order in for an SP3... but I can't get past the inferior tablet experience of Windows 8.1 (RT or x86). The last thing that I'd want to do is to shell out the money for an SP3 only to fall back to using my iPad 4 when I wanted to use a tablet as a tablet.

    When I say "inferior tablet experience" I'm really referring to the availability of the apps, not the Modern UI itself.
    05-25-2014 09:23 AM
  22. Nickkk101's Avatar

    When I say "inferior tablet experience" I'm really referring to the availability of the apps, not the Modern UI itself.
    Thats a great point, and i love my Surface 2 too- however i will say there isn't anything I'm missing currently from my own usage case. What do reckon to the convergence of Win Phone (and its Store) and RT in next years rumoured 'Threshold/Win 9' yourself?

    I'm of the opinion that even the addition of that app store alone would be incredible, regardless of any UX changes. In fact, one of the reasons i went for the S2 was to look forward to that development. Who knows what will happen of course but its fascinating nonetheless.
    06-05-2014 11:46 AM
  23. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Thats a great point, and i love my Surface 2 too- however i will say there isn't anything I'm missing currently from my own usage case. What do reckon to the convergence of Win Phone (and its Store) and RT in next years rumoured 'Threshold/Win 9' yourself?

    I'm of the opinion that even the addition of that app store alone would be incredible, regardless of any UX changes. In fact, one of the reasons i went for the S2 was to look forward to that development. Who knows what will happen of course but its fascinating nonetheless.
    I'm not too hopeful, primarily because I don't know exactly what Microsoft will deliver. (I know what they've hinted at and what some have speculated)

    Will their convergence be simply at the store level... a single storefront portal for WP and RT apps? Currently RT apps are in the same store as x86 Windows 8 apps so will Microsoft remove ARM apps from the Windows 8 store and move them to this WP/RT store?

    I have a Lumia 520. Love it. But I can't say that I'm impressed with the quality of the apps available for WP8. They don't seem to be any more functional or higher quality than what is currently available for Windows RT.

    This isn't the first time that Microsoft hinted at convergence of some of their platforms. How many years will it take to actually happen (not just at the system level but the app level)?

    My concern about all this WP/RT convergence talk is that RT will be dumbed down, and the Surface 2 (aka Zune Tablet) will suffer the same fate as the Zune.
    Nickkk101 likes this.
    06-05-2014 12:51 PM
  24. Cruncher04's Avatar
    My concern about all this WP/RT convergence talk is that RT will be dumbed down
    That is just a rumour made by people who do not understand the background. They think of RT as a third OS in the middle of WP and Windows, while in fact RT is just Windows.
    If you think of RT as the ARM build of Windows it will always be the ARM build of Windows and not possibly something else.

    Now regarding the App Store. There are several options. Microsoft could, in theory, integrate the runtime environment of Windows Phone into Windows. Making most of the apps instantly executable under RT and many of the apps even under x86 Windows.
    This would have the disadvantage, that you still have different apps for Windows Phone and Windows. Its just that the Phone apps also work under Windows.
    Therefore I assume that Microsoft will try to unify both runtime environments (WinPRT WinRT) such that you gain app compatibility when building for this new uniform environment. This has the disadvantage, that it is only applicable to future apps.
    06-05-2014 01:25 PM
  25. Nickkk101's Avatar
    That is just a rumour made by people who do not understand the background. They think of RT as a third OS in the middle of WP and Windows, while in fact RT is just Windows.
    If you think of RT as the ARM build of Windows it will always be the ARM build of Windows and not possibly something else.

    Now regarding the App Store. There are several options. Microsoft could, in theory, integrate the runtime environment of Windows Phone into Windows. Making most of the apps instantly executable under RT and many of the apps even under x86 Windows.
    This would have the disadvantage, that you still have different apps for Windows Phone and Windows. Its just that the Phone apps also work under Windows.
    Therefore I assume that Microsoft will try to unify both runtime environments (WinPRT WinRT) such that you gain app compatibility when building for this new uniform environment. This has the disadvantage, that it is only applicable to future apps.
    hmmmmm *strokes chin*
    06-06-2014 02:28 AM
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