04-23-2015 03:21 PM
28 12
tools
  1. Kevin N Smith's Avatar
    Is this a good trade?
    04-05-2015 07:50 AM
  2. jhoff80's Avatar
    It depends on if you need performance or not. The Pro 1 will blow away the Surface 3 in performance. In nearly everything else, the Surface 3 has the advantage - battery, weight, form factor, etc. The only one that's debatable otherwise is the N-trig pen in the Surface 3 versus the Wacom one in the Pro 1.
    Harrie-S and dgr_874 like this.
    04-05-2015 07:54 AM
  3. Kevin N Smith's Avatar
    It depends on if you need performance or not. The Pro 1 will blow away the Surface 3 in performance. In nearly everything else, the Surface 3 has the advantage - battery, weight, form factor, etc. The only one that's debatable otherwise is the N-trig pen in the Surface 3 versus the Wacom one in the Pro 1.
    Ok. I orig. planned on using my pro for programming, gaming, etc (laptop replacement), however that just didn't work - the thing is too hard to use on the lap and the trackpad is also very clumsy to use. Is the Surface 3 any better in those areas? I'd so, I'd consider getting the pro 3 being that it is basically a better - preforming version of the S3.
    04-05-2015 08:05 AM
  4. gerbert0013's Avatar
    I'm thinking about trading mine sp1 for a s3 also.
    04-06-2015 02:23 AM
  5. P_Devil's Avatar
    I wouldn't say that the SP1 "blows away" the Surface 3 in terms of performance. The Core i5 in the SP1 might be more powerful but the Atom x7 in the Surface 3 has the potential to offer more powerful graphics. Early benchmarks (not Geekbench) are putting the Atom x7 CPU right up there (actually a bit ahead) with the Core M in the unreleased MacBook. So the differences between the SP1 and SP3, in terms of performance, could be marginal if they are even noticeable at all. Don't forget that the SP1 runs a Core i5 that's now two generations behind instead of one like the SP2/SP3.

    The Surface 3 is also capable of smoothly playing back 4K video, outputting up to three monitors (never mind, it appears Microsoft isn't enabling this option with the Surface 3), outputting to a 4K monitor, playing high framerate HD videos, and even playing some games on decent settings. I wouldn't do anything heavy in Photoshop on it but I'm guessing SP1 users weren't really doing that either since it kills their battery.

    I think going from an SP1 to a Surface 3, especially the model with 128GB of storage, is a smart move. It's lighter, thinner, has a display that is easier to write on, the pen has more functionality (though it does requires its own power source), and performance between the two should be similar with the Surface 3 pulling ahead in graphics (if Intel is to be believed).
    Last edited by P_Devil; 04-06-2015 at 11:08 AM.
    dgr_874 likes this.
    04-06-2015 10:49 AM
  6. Jackie Earley's Avatar
    I was debating to do this for my wife. She has a SP1 and I have an SP3. The SP1 is so bulky and battery life is atrocious. She doesn't really do much on it that requires heavy processing. I might do that.
    04-06-2015 10:54 AM
  7. jhoff80's Avatar
    I wouldn't say that the SP1 "blows away" the Surface 3 in terms of performance. The Core i5 in the SP1 might be more powerful but the Atom x7 in the Surface 3 has the potential to offer more powerful graphics. Early benchmarks (not Geekbench) are putting the Atom x7 CPU right up there (actually a bit ahead) with the Core M in the unreleased MacBook. So the differences between the SP1 and SP3, in terms of performance, could be marginal if they are even noticeable at all. Don't forget that the SP1 runs a Core i5 that's now two generations behind instead of one like the SP2/SP3.
    That two generation old Core i5 is still faster than the Pro 3's Haswell i3 option. Microsoft themselves said that the Surface 3 gets ~70% of the performance of the i3 Pro 3. So yes, the Surface Pro 1 is going to be far faster. The Pro 1 also has a true SSD and not eMMC storage, meaning that its disk performance is also going to be far greater.
    04-06-2015 11:18 AM
  8. P_Devil's Avatar
    It was 85% of the Core i3 CPU in the SP3 but, like I said, that could be marginal or not even noticeable. I doubt you are going to notice the speed differences between SSD and eMMC unless you are doing serious video editing (which you wouldn't be considering the Surface 3 for anyway). The keyword here being "noticeable."
    04-06-2015 11:34 AM
  9. Jazmac's Avatar
    I have yet to see any laptop or tablet beat what is possible on the desktop in terms of performance.
    04-06-2015 08:27 PM
  10. James8561's Avatar
    Technicality: all tablets use eMMC since SSD is too big for them.
    That said, it is not the form factor that dictates performance because you can have high end eMMC being faster than cheap SSDs. It all depends on price, but yes in general eMMC is slower due to less energy consumption
    04-07-2015 04:03 AM
  11. James8561's Avatar
    I have yet to see any laptop or tablet beat what is possible on the desktop in terms of performance.
    Stating the obvious much?
    On desktop you have like almost no space, heat, or power consumption restrictions compared to mobile. 10 core 180watt Xeons and 250watt graphics cards come to mind. GL powering those with a battery and carry them around though. All form factors have pros and cons
    xandros9 likes this.
    04-07-2015 04:05 AM
  12. P_Devil's Avatar
    I have yet to see any laptop or tablet beat what is possible on the desktop in terms of performance.
    That has always been the case and will continue to be the case when comparing traditional desktops to notebooks, tablets, and all-in-one desktop units. What's your point. As James said, you are stating the obvious. I don't think people are expecting a $499 Surface 3 to beat out a a $6500 Alienware Area-51 desktop with an 8-core Corei7 CPU, 32GB of quad channel DDR4 RAM, a 512GB SSD, and two Nvidia Titan Z graphics cards running in SLI. In fact, I would question the sanity of a person making such a comparison.
    04-07-2015 07:48 AM
  13. Jazmac's Avatar
    That has always been the case and will continue to be the case when comparing traditional desktops to notebooks, tablets, and all-in-one desktop units. What's your point. As James said, you are stating the obvious. I don't think people are expecting a $499 Surface 3 to beat out a a $6500 Alienware Area-51 desktop with an 8-core Corei7 CPU, 32GB of quad channel DDR4 RAM, a 512GB SSD, and two Nvidia Titan Z graphics cards running in SLI. In fact, I would question the sanity of a person making such a comparison.
    What is YOUR point? No need to overly correct. James made the point.
    Last edited by Jazmac; 04-07-2015 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Unnecessary fire in my response.
    04-07-2015 02:03 PM
  14. gerbert0013's Avatar
    kevin n smith. I have the sp1 with the surface dock. If Microsoft or bestbuy has a good offer to trade both in. I plan on getting the s3 with the new dock. I might keep my surface type keyboard if it fits the s3.
    04-07-2015 04:32 PM
  15. rdubmu's Avatar
    You would be better just getting the Power Cover, and not getting the Surface 3. The SP1 performance is much better (on paper). The track pad on the type cover 3 (pro 3) is much better. Track pad on the power cover is good but isn't clickable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    04-07-2015 06:50 PM
  16. rdubmu's Avatar
    kevin n smith. I have the sp1 with the surface dock. If Microsoft or bestbuy has a good offer to trade both in. I plan on getting the s3 with the new dock. I might keep my surface type keyboard if it fits the s3.


    I believe all type covers fit each version. The type cover 1 fits in the pro 3


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    04-07-2015 06:53 PM
  17. gerbert0013's Avatar
    I bought the power cover I didn't like the track pad, also a little bulky. I should get one because they are cheaper now. I causally game. Diablo3. I use STEAM to play counter strike nothing to much. Also the type cover 1 looks funny on the SP3 since it has a bigger screen. Thanks for the input. I think it just comes down to how much money do I want to put down. Hopefully there is a decent trade in value.
    04-08-2015 02:24 AM
  18. onlysublime's Avatar
    Technicality: all tablets use eMMC since SSD is too big for them.
    That said, it is not the form factor that dictates performance because you can have high end eMMC being faster than cheap SSDs. It all depends on price, but yes in general eMMC is slower due to less energy consumption
    If performance is your #1 goal, you would not go from an i5 Ivy Bridge (in the original Surface Pro) to the Atom (Cherry Trail).

    And all Surface Pro machines (1, 2, or 3) have true SSD. Only Atom machines and cheaper machines/tablets have eMMC.

    Of course, if other factors are important, then the Surface 3 can come out ahead. I use my Surface Pro 2 as my primary PC. It doesn't do the heavy duty video encoding for Adobe Premiere or Handbrake which is reserved for my desktop machines. But all my work, my video editing, my photo editing, etc. is all done on my SP2. There's no way any of my workflow can work on an Atom. That's just not what the Atom is meant to do. The Atom is meant for things a typical consumer does (web browse, type some documents, watch some videos, play some games, etc.).

    Now, if the trackpad is unusable to you (my trackpad on the SP2 is pretty much worthless) and you don't want to deal with a mouse or trackball, then you'll like the trackpad of the Surface 3 which is much better.

    Also, you are correct that the single kickstand position of the SP1 is awful for the lap. I love my SP2 because of that second position which makes it totally comfortable on the lap for me. And the Surface 3 has 3 positions now.

    Again, it comes down to how much you value performance above the other factors. I know compiling code, editing video, editing photos, etc. can be quite a chore on a CPU like the Atom or even the i3 (which is faster than Atom).

    I can see going from SP1 to Surface 3 because of the SP1 limitations as long as performance on the Atom is okay to you.
    For myself, there's absolutely zero chance of going from SP2 to a Surface 3. SP2 is a very good improvement on the SP1 (better CPU, more kickstand positions, better battery life, slightly better screen, etc.). And the SP2 is the fastest Surface Pro under sustained load. Faster than SP3 due to SP3 throttling and because the SP2 only has to drive a 1080P screen versus the higher resolution of the SP3.
    04-08-2015 03:24 AM
  19. P_Devil's Avatar
    What is YOUR point? No need to overly correct. James made the point.
    To further substantiate their statement.

    If performance is your #1 goal, you would not go from an i5 Ivy Bridge (in the original Surface Pro) to the Atom (Cherry Trail).
    ...There's no way any of my workflow can work on an Atom.
    I wouldn't be too quick, just yet, to rule out the Atom x7 in the Surface 3 for some of those tasks. I don't think it will be faster than a Surface Pro for them but it might not be too bad of a trade-off especially when compared to a Surface Pro 1. The Surface 3 is a step back in performance compared to the SP1 (though I'm not sure if it is noticeable for most people) but it is thinner, lighter, and gets better battery life even when compared to the SP1 with a Power Cover.

    My office-mate has an SP1 and he is planning on getting the Surface 3 when it hits. Then again, all he does is use One Note, other MS Office programs, surf the internet, watch movies/videos, and listen to music. I have thought about it since that is pretty much all I do with my SP2 and I would like carrying around a thinner, lighter unit that gets the same battery life as my setup (SP2+Power Cover). But I'm still on the fence, that's why I'm going to be visiting the Microsoft Store numerous times before the Surface 3 launches.
    04-08-2015 07:17 AM
  20. onlysublime's Avatar
    The benchmarks are out, showing the difference between Surface 3, Surface 2, and Surface Pro 3.

    As expected, there's a large gap between Atom and Core, but that's expected. There's no problem having different classes. The Atom is like your Toyota Camry which is perfectly fine for many people. The Core series is like the BMW M series. An entirely different class meant for different things. You're wasting money if you get an M5 when you're just hauling kids around.

    Just because the Atom is brand new doesn't mean it's leaving its class. And just because the Core is old doesn't mean it's leaving its class either. The main differences between Haswell (Surface Pro 2 and Surface Pro 3) and Ivy Bridge (Surface Pro 1) is Haswell is more efficient which is better for battery life and heat output, and it has a step up in GPU performance. But the difference in performance between Ivy Bridge and Haswell is not revolutionary but more evolutionary.

    Again, if a person can accept Atom level performance, then Surface 3 is a fine upgrade over Surface Pro 1 because of all the other reasons (screen aspect ratio, form factor, kickstand, etc.). But if performance is a very important factor, then there's no way to take a Surface 3 over an SP1.

    I love my Surface 2. It's great for what it's intended (Office, web browsing, videos, music, etc.) And in many ways, the Surface 3 is a nice evolution. But it's an evolution. It's still in the same class. The only major difference is now you have access to x64/x86 software (as well as the pen of course)
    Last edited by onlysublime; 04-09-2015 at 12:20 AM.
    04-08-2015 07:26 PM
  21. Geodude074's Avatar
    I wouldn't say that the SP1 "blows away" the Surface 3 in terms of performance. The Core i5 in the SP1 might be more powerful but the Atom x7 in the Surface 3 has the potential to offer more powerful graphics. Early benchmarks (not Geekbench) are putting the Atom x7 CPU right up there (actually a bit ahead) with the Core M in the unreleased MacBook. So the differences between the SP1 and SP3, in terms of performance, could be marginal if they are even noticeable at all. Don't forget that the SP1 runs a Core i5 that's now two generations behind instead of one like the SP2/SP3.
    Where are these benchmarks? I'd like to see them. The benchmarks I've seen show that the Core M outperforms both the Core i3 AND the Core i5 in the Surface Pros.

    For the Atom x7 to be close to the Core M would mean that it's more powerful than the Core i5.

    System Performance - The ASUS Zenbook UX305 Review
    04-21-2015 01:42 PM
  22. onlysublime's Avatar
    The Core M processors (based on Broadwell) are definitely NOT faster than the Haswell i5 or i7 processors. The Core M processors are designed to slot in-between the Atom series and the Core series. Remember that the Haswell i5 and i7 processors used in Surface Pro machines are the U series which is Intel's performance series. The Y series is designed for low power consumption. There are Core i5 and Core i7 processors that are Y series but none were used in Surface Pro machines.

    The Haswell Core i3 is a Y series processor. The Core M processors fit under the Y series of processors which stress low power consumption. The Core M processors are designed to be fanless. So if you're expecting Core performance from the Core M processors, you will be disappointed.

    The Core M processors (again, Y series processors) are designed to replace and be faster than the Y series Haswell processors. The only Y series Haswell processor used by Surface Pro 3 is the Core i3. The Core M is not designed to replace the U series Haswell processors which is what is in the Surface Pro 1, 2, and 3. The Surface Pro 2 uses Haswell U series Core i5. The Surface Pro 1 uses Ivy Bridge U series Core i5.

    Ultimately, if you're looking for ultimate performance, you're going to wait for the U series of Broadwell or Skylake. Which will most likely still be branded the Core processors (i5, i7). Since Broadwell was so late, it ran into the debut of Skylake. And Skylake is the tock of Intel's tick-tock release cycle. Skylake is where the big improvements in performance will be.

    As for the benchmarks listed by Geodude... they are misleading as well. The only processor that the Core M Broadwell beats in terms of Surface Pro machines is the Core i3 which is the Haswell Y series processor. Of course, the Core M (Y series) is designed to be faster than the processor it replaces (Haswell Y series).

    Core i5 or i7 Haswell U series is still faster than Core M Broadwell (and Core i5 Ivy Bridge is faster as well). The PCMark benchmarks have to be carefully used because they are not pure CPU/GPU tests and include other factors such as SSD or eMMC speeds.
    04-21-2015 04:15 PM
  23. colinkiama's Avatar
    No, it's not the same man. Surface pros really can replace your laptop. They can run (almost) everything but the surface 3 is actually an amazing tablet that COULD replace your laptop. It's lacking in power. But windows store apps, office and old games should run fine. It really depends what you want though. If you want a iPad killer then the surface 3 is perfect. If you want an ultrabook in the form factor of a tablet, the surface pro 3 is perfect.
    Marquis de Faux and Stiv X like this.
    04-21-2015 04:26 PM
  24. P_Devil's Avatar
    Where are these benchmarks? I'd like to see them. The benchmarks I've seen show that the Core M outperforms both the Core i3 AND the Core i5 in the Surface Pros.

    For the Atom x7 to be close to the Core M would mean that it's more powerful than the Core i5.

    System Performance - The ASUS Zenbook UX305 Review
    They're everywhere. I think you are also forgetting that the Core M in the new MacBook isn't the same as the Core M in the Yoga Pro 3 or the Core M in the Asus. The main issue with the Core M is that CPU performance is heavily dependent on the power supplied to it. So a 1.5GHz Core M that is under powered, to save battery life, can be outperformed by a 1GHz Core M that is being fed more power. Just look at the CPU Mark scores for the MacBook and Surface 3. The MacBook's are somewhere around 1300 for single-threaded and 3000 for multi-threaded whereas the Surface 3 is 1000 for single-threaded and 3400 for multi-threaded.
    04-22-2015 07:35 AM
  25. dirtyvu's Avatar
    P devil. Just stop. You make a lot of nonsensical statements.
    04-22-2015 08:32 PM
28 12

Similar Threads

  1. Any news on a replacement 1020?
    By grezmel in forum Nokia Lumia 1020
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-19-2015, 10:52 AM
  2. Where can I get a Surface 3/Pro 3 and Xbox One bundle?
    By Anirudh Sheoran in forum The Xbox Lounge
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-10-2015, 09:28 PM
  3. Is my phone done for?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-06-2015, 03:07 PM
  4. Grab this sleek Lumia 1020 skin case today for just $4.95!
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-05-2015, 06:11 AM
  5. Help With Font Size For Email Inbox
    By anon(9169048) in forum Windows 10
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-05-2015, 06:00 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD