05-28-2015 04:05 PM
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  1. Stiv X's Avatar
    I guess it is just that kind of day, but I think I've read the last review I can stand where the reviewer says the S3 is too expensive, but compares it to an iPad. Let's take a few points:

    1. The iPad price is OK, but the S3 is too much. BS! The S3 has a full operating system on it, the iPad is limited by the mobile OS (iOS). The only way it could be compared is if it ran full OSX on it. AND THEY ARE COMPARABLY PRICED!

    2. The S3 doesn't include the keyboard. So what? The iPad (which apparently is comparable) doesn't come with a keyboard. Also, if you don't like the Type cover, you can use any Bluetooth keyboard on the S3. It doesn't have to have the type cover. It is a peripheral device just like the Surface Pen. The SP3 comes with the Pen, so I could see that being bundled, but the keyboard while it would be nice, is still not a necessity for all people. You know what else the iPad doen't have? A digitized stylus capability.

    I could go on, but I'm going to stop myself before I go nuts. Look. The base model S3 costs $499 in the US. You can get deals and bundles here and there if you look. What I am getting tired of hearing is how much it costs. The f'n Apple Watch is priced from $350 to $12,000, but people will line up for a device that can't do a quater of the things the S3 can. Anyone consider that Flagship cell phones cost more than the S3. At AT&T the base Galaxy S6 (32Gb) is $684.99, the base Galaxy S6 Edge (32Gb) is $814.99, the iPhone 6 (16Gb) is $649.99, and the iPhone 6 Plus (16Gb) is $749.99. People will buy these device annually. You think if people don't see something they want bad enough, they won't go for it?
    05-20-2015 09:16 AM
  2. excalibur1814's Avatar
    People like to repeat things because it 'might' show that they have an opinion on something that, in all honesty, they have no idea about. How many people do you think actually referenced the price of an iPad before repeating what they'd read? Probably none.

    P.s. I own an iPad Air 2 and a Surface 3. Both are over-priced but, at the end of the day, I WAS willing to pay that price for what they both offer.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-20-2015 09:25 AM
  3. illegaloperation's Avatar
    The market has been flooded with these ~$100 Windows tablets (same with Android tablets) hence the mentality that the Surface 3 is somehow too expensive.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-20-2015 10:07 AM
  4. theefman's Avatar
    Same thing when the SP3 was launched. These kind of reviews are from and for apple users, any and all Surface reviews from such sites will follow the same theme. Ignore them.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-20-2015 10:13 AM
  5. Stiv X's Avatar
    People like to repeat things because it 'might' show that they have an opinion on something that, in all honesty, they have no idea about. How many people do you think actually referenced the price of an iPad before repeating what they'd read? Probably none.

    P.s. I own an iPad Air 2 and a Surface 3. Both are over-priced but, at the end of the day, I WAS willing to pay that price for what they both offer.
    As long as you are happy with both, more power to you.
    05-20-2015 10:15 AM
  6. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    Good point about the flood of cheap tablets. Much of the PC market is generally in a race to the bottom. OEMs live and die with hardware sales so they must be exquisitely tuned in to the price sensitivities of consumers. Microsoft has a slightly different need for its hardware division.
    Also, lots of people here want the Surface and can't afford it, ergo it is too expensive. Pricing discussions are just kind of dumb in general. Not just here but in reviews too. It is fair to lay out what else you can or cannot get at a similar price point, but given how varied everyone's needs are I generally find it hard to say whether something is or is not "too expensive".

    In this case, I wish Surface 3 was cheaper, but it is priced comparably to iPad and other top-tier tablets.
    Stiv X and BGrewer like this.
    05-20-2015 10:20 AM
  7. Stiv X's Avatar
    The market has been flooded with these ~$100 Windows tablets (same with Android tablets) hence the mentality that the Surface 3 is somehow too expensive.
    I own two ~$100 Windows 8.1 Update 1 tablet devices. ONe if 7" and the other is an 8". They are fine for watching Netflix from in bed while the wife is asleep. They don't compare to the S3 in quality or performance, though. I also have a Dell Venue Pro 8. I like it, but it is not as good as the S3. The DVP8 cost me $300 new. I also had to buy a screen protector, Dell case/keyboard folio, and Dell Active Stylus with it. I spent somewhere around $500 when it was done. Sure, I could have saved money with a cheaper case/keyboard foli, but I wanted the Dell. So, I paid for it. This is for an 8" screen with 2GB RAM and 64GB storage. Doesn't compare to S3. I wanted the smaller form factor for travel ad note taking. I may pass it on to my daughter now that I have the S3.
    05-20-2015 10:22 AM
  8. illegaloperation's Avatar
    I own two ~$100 Windows 8.1 Update 1 tablet devices. ONe if 7" and the other is an 8". They are fine for watching Netflix from in bed while the wife is asleep. They don't compare to the S3 in quality or performance, though. I also have a Dell Venue Pro 8. I like it, but it is not as good as the S3. The DVP8 cost me $300 new. I also had to buy a screen protector, Dell case/keyboard folio, and Dell Active Stylus with it. I spent somewhere around $500 when it was done. Sure, I could have saved money with a cheaper case/keyboard foli, but I wanted the Dell. So, I paid for it. This is for an 8" screen with 2GB RAM and 64GB storage. Doesn't compare to S3. I wanted the smaller form factor for travel ad note taking. I may pass it on to my daughter now that I have the S3.
    I know that they don't compare well, but the mentality is still there.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-20-2015 10:24 AM
  9. Stiv X's Avatar
    Good point about the flood of cheap tablets. Much of the PC market is generally in a race to the bottom. OEMs live and die with hardware sales so they must be exquisitely tuned in to the price sensitivities of consumers. Microsoft has a slightly different need for its hardware division.
    Also, lots of people here want the Surface and can't afford it, ergo it is too expensive. Pricing discussions are just kind of dumb in general. Not just here but in reviews too. It is fair to lay out what else you can or cannot get at a similar price point, but given how varied everyone's needs are I generally find it hard to say whether something is or is not "too expensive".

    In this case, I wish Surface 3 was cheaper, but it is priced comparably to iPad and other top-tier tablets.
    Exactly. It is priced comparably to other top-tier tablets. It is a top-tier tablet, so why should it not be? There are cheaper alternatives as many have pointed out if one would prefer.
    illegaloperation likes this.
    05-20-2015 10:25 AM
  10. LibbyLA's Avatar
    I love my Dell V8P, especially now that I have it in a Zagg Autofit clamshell keyboard case, but I don't like it not having a trackpad. I'm not yet a "touch" person so I use a mouse with it. I really like the tiny form factor and I've done actual work on it. It's pretty amazing to have a functioning Windows 8 computer in such an itty bitty package,

    I'm really enjoying the S3, though. It will probably be my most used portable of the four I have now (Toshiba Z30, SP3, DV8P, and now S3). It is pricier than lots of laptops but compared to some of the fancy new phones, the price is pretty reasonable.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-20-2015 11:22 AM
  11. lookingforward's Avatar
    I like the black keyboard, so I bought the S3 bundle from Costco for $699. This is the 128GB/4GB model. The iPad Air 2 128GB also sells for $699 at most stores, except it doesn't include a keyboard...or an N-trig pen...or a built-in kickstand...or expandable storage...or stereo front facing speakers...or a 10.8" screen...or a full fledged OS...the list goes on...
    Stiv X and calfee20 like this.
    05-20-2015 11:42 AM
  12. P_Devil's Avatar
    I have come across one review that fairly compared the Surface 3 to the iPad Air 2. They looked at pricing of the tablets themselves and nothing more (i.e. no additional accessories). I really liked the review as it made note of the pros and cons of both units. That's realistic as they both have their positives and negatives. That's been it tough. The Verge's review was awful, so was Engadget's. CNET has the worst review for the Surface 3 I have read. They thought the Surface 3 was over priced yet were willing to shell out $1300 for the new MacBook, which the Surface 3 is ironically just as powerful as, along with an iPad Air 2. They even scored the design of the MacBook higher despite it physically limiting the productivity of the ultabook. They also scored the battery life of the MacBook higher even though it lasted 5 hours in their test and the Surface 3 lasted 7 hours. Then again, that review was written by one of the biggest Apple fanboys ever.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-20-2015 01:43 PM
  13. seremify's Avatar
    People like to repeat things because it 'might' show that they have an opinion on something that, in all honesty, they have no idea about. How many people do you think actually referenced the price of an iPad before repeating what they'd read? Probably none.

    P.s. I own an iPad Air 2 and a Surface 3. Both are over-priced but, at the end of the day, I WAS willing to pay that price for what they both offer.
    This.

    At the end of the day I was sick with cheap products and rather than buy something which I always end up wondering "will it work today?", I went with buying products which cost a little bit more initially but provide me with that much more satisfaction longer term. I too own both a Surface 3 and iPad Air 2. They're both premium products but then they also feel like premium products too.
    Stiv X likes this.
    05-21-2015 03:54 AM
  14. seremify's Avatar
    I like the black keyboard, so I bought the S3 bundle from Costco for $699. This is the 128GB/4GB model. The iPad Air 2 128GB also sells for $699 at most stores, except it doesn't include a keyboard...or an N-trig pen...or a built-in kickstand...or expandable storage...or stereo front facing speakers...or a 10.8" screen...or a full fledged OS...the list goes on...
    I do have to admit though I think the full fledged OS is a bit oversold given a lot of the applications which run on the full fledged OS aren't really well designed for the touch interface or Surface 3 when it is used in tablet form. It is no different to me running a remote desktop app on my iPad connected to a Windows machine somewhere else in the world.

    There are definitely benefits to each device and I guess after using the Surface 3 a bit more, I really don't see it as a tablet but more of a very very portable laptop which I can carry around easily. Unfortunately though this means if I can only take one device, disregarding the lack of LTE in my Surface 3, I still choose to take the iPad Air 2 as it's a more general purpose device whether it's surfing net, posting on Facebook, or playing games.
    Stiv X and jschu22 like this.
    05-21-2015 03:56 AM
  15. canhosaigon's Avatar
    thank
    05-21-2015 11:22 AM
  16. Stiv X's Avatar
    I do have to admit though I think the full fledged OS is a bit oversold given a lot of the applications which run on the full fledged OS aren't really well designed for the touch interface or Surface 3 when it is used in tablet form. It is no different to me running a remote desktop app on my iPad connected to a Windows machine somewhere else in the world.

    There are definitely benefits to each device and I guess after using the Surface 3 a bit more, I really don't see it as a tablet but more of a very very portable laptop which I can carry around easily. Unfortunately though this means if I can only take one device, disregarding the lack of LTE in my Surface 3, I still choose to take the iPad Air 2 as it's a more general purpose device whether it's surfing net, posting on Facebook, or playing games.
    I have to agree that apps on Windows are not as well designed. However, the great thiing about a full-fledged OS is you are not required to use apps. You have full operating power. The iPad (iOS) was just as restricted as WinRT, but wasn't as big of an issue because of the number of apps available. If there is no app available, however, you are kind of screwed if there is no way to handle the task via web interface. Another thing a full OS can do is run actual computer games. You can't install Starraft or WoW on an iPad. If the app doesn't exist...well, you get the idea.
    05-21-2015 02:05 PM
  17. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I guess it is just that kind of day, but I think I've read the last review I can stand where the reviewer says the S3 is too expensive, but compares it to an iPad. Let's take a few points:

    1. The iPad price is OK, but the S3 is too much. BS! The S3 has a full operating system on it, the iPad is limited by the mobile OS (iOS). The only way it could be compared is if it ran full OSX on it. AND THEY ARE COMPARABLY PRICED!
    Just because a reviewer says something doesn't mean it is correct. Personally, I have not read any reviews that claimed that the S3 was overpriced compared to the iPad. Both Surface 3 and iPad Air are comparably priced. As to whether or not they are of comparable value, depends greatly upon one's needs.

    As tablets, an argument can be made that the iPad is superior to the Surface 3 because of the quantity of quality touch-optimized apps. Touch optimized Modern UI apps for Windows are still of lesser quality and function than what's available for iOS. Depending upon how one uses their devices that difference doesn't matter, but that difference does exist.


    2. The S3 doesn't include the keyboard. So what? The iPad (which apparently is comparable) doesn't come with a keyboard. Also, if you don't like the Type cover, you can use any Bluetooth keyboard on the S3. It doesn't have to have the type cover. It is a peripheral device just like the Surface Pen.
    You place the blame for the complaint on reviewers and consumers but you seem to ignore the fact that Microsoft is solely to blame for the perception. There currently is no (and never has been) an ad for any Surface device that didn't prominently showcase the keyboard cover. Microsoft has inextricably linked the Surface to the keyboard cover. They are to blame when people complain that the keyboard is not included. Heck, Microsoft doesn't even sell a non-keyboard cover for the Surface.

    It's a psychological marketing ploy that Microsoft engaged it. They need to take the heat from those who see through it.



    The SP3 comes with the Pen, so I could see that being bundled, but the keyboard while it would be nice, is still not a necessity for all people. You know what else the iPad doen't have? A digitized stylus capability.
    That's is a legitimate distinctive of the S3 over the iPad. As much as I enjoy using my iPad, I can only respond with a face-palm when I see people using goofy workarounds to emulate an active digitizer.


    I could go on, but I'm going to stop myself before I go nuts. Look. The base model S3 costs $499 in the US. You can get deals and bundles here and there if you look. What I am getting tired of hearing is how much it costs. The f'n Apple Watch is priced from $350 to $12,000, but people will line up for a device that can't do a quater of the things the S3 can. Anyone consider that Flagship cell phones cost more than the S3. At AT&T the base Galaxy S6 (32Gb) is $684.99, the base Galaxy S6 Edge (32Gb) is $814.99, the iPhone 6 (16Gb) is $649.99, and the iPhone 6 Plus (16Gb) is $749.99. People will buy these device annually. You think if people don't see something they want bad enough, they won't go for it?
    You go off into the weeds when you start talking about the Apple Watch and rant about smartphones. It has no bearing on the issue of tablets.

    Microsoft sells an image of workflow using the Surface in their ads. THAT is what people are grappling with. $499 is the starting point, not what one will pay to be able to do what Microsoft presents in their ads.

    That $499 Surface 3 advertised quickly rises in price to $599 (no right-thinking person should buy the 2GB/64GB model) + $130 TypeCover + $50 pen. $780. Sure you can point to car commercials that show vehicles that are decked out with $1000's of options, but it's not the same thing.

    As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have essentially the same configuration with the Switch 11 @ $499 (4GB/128GB, keyboard dock, and pen included)

    I don't recall seeing an iPad ad that shows off its capabilities that requires $100's of accessories. That the difference... and it is a big difference.
    05-21-2015 02:16 PM
  18. Geodude074's Avatar
    They thought the Surface 3 was over priced yet were willing to shell out $1300 for the new MacBook, which the Surface 3 is ironically just as powerful as, along with an iPad Air 2.
    Atom x7 is no comparison to the Core M-5Y31, the Core-M easily walks all over Atom. The A8X in the iPad Air 2 is also significantly more powerful than Atom x7. In fact, the A8X is competitive with Core-M.
    Silence#WP likes this.
    05-21-2015 06:10 PM
  19. seremify's Avatar
    You place the blame for the complaint on reviewers and consumers but you seem to ignore the fact that Microsoft is solely to blame for the perception. There currently is no (and never has been) an ad for any Surface device that didn't prominently showcase the keyboard cover. Microsoft has inextricably linked the Surface to the keyboard cover. They are to blame when people complain that the keyboard is not included. Heck, Microsoft doesn't even sell a non-keyboard cover for the Surface.

    It's a psychological marketing ploy that Microsoft engaged it. They need to take the heat from those who see through it.

    ...

    Microsoft sells an image of workflow using the Surface in their ads. THAT is what people are grappling with. $499 is the starting point, not what one will pay to be able to do what Microsoft presents in their ads.
    As someone who has a Surface 3 (4/128) without the keyboard cover, I have to admit it sucks to use this thing without a keyboard. Heck, even without using a mouse is pushing it for a lot of things because the on screen keyboard for some reason doesn't seem to like me and I regularly make typos.

    This is a fundamental point here - the iPad works great without a keyboard but certain applications are improved when you have a keyboard attached.

    When people talk about how awesome it is to have full Windows on Surface 3, then you need to take into account that for it to work remotely effectively, you need a keyboard and mouse (or at least the pen). Don't get me wrong, I like my Surface 3, but am finding that it's not very good at being a tablet when used on the go. The Metro apps seem severely crippled (e.g. Teamviewer) and hence I'm forced to use the Windows desktop versions instead.
    Jeremiah256 and WillysJeepMan like this.
    05-21-2015 10:38 PM
  20. Geodude074's Avatar
    The iPad has one function, and that's to be a great tablet experience.

    The Surface 3 tries to be both a tablet and a laptop, but it's not very good at either. It can do okay as a tablet, but Windows 8 is nowhere near as good as iOS. It can do okay as a laptop, but you can find significantly more powerful and practical choices for the same price range ($630-$730).

    I had a Dell Venue 8 Pro for a while, which I used 95% of the time in the Modern UI, and although I loved the 8 inch form factor, Windows 8 is just meh for a tablet.

    Standby battery life is terrible. You're stuck using IE as your browser (unless you want to sacrifice performance/battery life). Uploading/locating documents in IE is a total pain. You can't save modern apps onto an external drive. App selection is terrible.

    But the most unforgivable thing about Windows 8 is the onscreen keyboard. I'm extremely picky about onscreen keyboards and the Windows 8 keyboard is severely lacking. It's off-center, you can't resize it, auto-complete and auto-correct sucks since you have to tap where you're texting, and I had the worst WPM using it compared to any other onscreen keyboard. I tried every 3rd party option out there, and none of them were good, nowhere near as good as what's available on Android or iOS. Typing on a tablet is half the input I do, so having a terrible keyboard ruined the experience for me.
    05-22-2015 01:24 AM
  21. onlysublime's Avatar
    If they carry over some of the Windows Phone touch keyboard features, the Windows 10 touch keyboard will be fantastic. The Windows 8 touch keyboard is lacking overall (why the heck put the autocorrection so far away from the typing fingers??? ARGH!!!). But that number pad arrangement is fantastic in the Windows 8 touch keyboard.

    As for the combination of a tablet and laptop... The reason why I love my Surface machines is because I can do whatever I want on a whim. I remember back to my laptop days and how unwieldy it was to use a laptop while standing. Sometimes I wanted to rip that keyboard right off. And back in my laptop days, it didn't have a touchscreen. Try using a trackpad and keyboard while standing. Awkward. Ultrabooks are sleek and thin (I do love my friend's Acer S7 and my other friend's Dell XPS 13) when closed but open it up and it's unwieldy again. I tried to like the Yoga machines but feeling the loose keys underneath in tablet mode was really weird.

    Sure, the Surface isn't perfect in either mode. But I'd rather have a system that's functional in both ways than a system that's functional only in one way. Better to have 80% laptop and 80% tablet than 100% laptop and 0% tablet or 100% tablet and 0% laptop. People who own an iPad will never be able to do Photoshop (real Photoshop, not that stupid Photoshop Touch). People who own a laptop will never be able to remove that keyboard. I won't be using my Surface 3 as my primary machine to do InDesign or Photoshop. But if I'm at a restaurant and my friend needs a rush job on minor edits to an InDesign document, I can whip out my Surface 3 in an emergency and deliver it on the spot if I don't have my Surface Pro 2 with me (I always have at least one of the machines with me always). And the Surface machines have a good pen option.

    How many machines have a pen option, a tablet mode, a touchscreen, AND a laptop mode all together? Almost none.

    And I know you always bring up the tablets with keyboard docks. I own an ASUS Transformer Book T100 64GB machine. And that was such a compromise, much more so than a Surface machine. I would say that was 60% tablet score and 60% laptop score. The keys were tiny. The performance was actually okay. The keyboard was so light that if you tilted the tablet back like a laptop, it would tip over which actually made the Surface a much better machine on the lap. The USB port was in the keyboard dock so if you had it in tablet mode, you had only a microUSB port. The screen was half the brightness of any Surface machine (even the Surface RT had a better screen).

    If it was possible to put the majority of the weight of a tablet/dock into the dock and have a featherweight tablet so it doesn't tip over, that could be the ideal setup but that'll never be the case. In fact, the new ASUS Transformer Book T300 Chi... They put weight into the base to counteract the tipping over. But that made the keyboard dock/tablet heavier than ultrabooks.

    In many ways my Garmin car GPS is far superior to any cell phone GPS but a lot of people decide to go with a cell phone GPS out of convenience. That's kind of what the Surface is: convenience. If you want the best possible tablet, there are other options. If you want the best possible laptop, there are other options. If you want a machine that does everything, there are very few options and Surface stands out.
    05-22-2015 02:31 AM
  22. illegaloperation's Avatar
    Since Geodude074 seems to think that the Surface 3 is a rip-off, why doesn't he go out to buy an Asus Transformer Book T100 Chi and give us a full review of it?
    05-22-2015 02:41 AM
  23. exaybachay01's Avatar
    Since Geodude074 seems to think that the Surface 3 is a rip-off, why doesn't he go out to buy an Asus Transformer Book T100 Chi and give us a full review of it?
    Or any Windows 8.1 2-in-1 around the same price and size, for that matter.
    05-22-2015 08:12 AM
  24. Stiv X's Avatar
    WillysJeepMan, you make some good points, but the entire point of my post is people will pay lots of money for lesser products and be happy to do it. Yet, when buying a device that is intended to last you for years to come, complain about cost. I often give presentations around the country about emerging mobile technology. One of the things I always show are the stats explaining why the mobile market has become more profitable than the PC business. Two reasons stand out: everyone has a cell phone, but it is not uncommon for there to be 1 PC per household AND statically people will upgrade their mobile device either annually or every two years, where as the average upgrade for a PC is 5+ years. I plan to keep my Surface3 for as long as I can. So, it is worth the investment to me.

    Also, I had stated earlier there are other options that are cheaper if all you care about it most bang for your buck. Microsoft has positioned the Surface as a premium device. It is a premium device. It will be marketed and sold as a premium device. Microsoft is in the process of creating Apple device competitors. That is the market. There are now and always will be other ways to save money. The ASUS Switch line are nice, but not for everyone. I personally don't like the 16:9 display, the unbalanced weight, small chicklet-style keyboard, and I haven't personally had much luck with long device life out of any ASUS I have previously owned. That is my opinion. I would rather pay more for something I consider a more premium device designed to last me for many years, such as the Surface. Others may like the better cost savings of the ASUS Switch product line. There is nothing wrong with someone doing that. It is nice to have options.
    05-22-2015 09:13 AM
  25. P_Devil's Avatar
    Atom x7 is no comparison to the Core M-5Y31, the Core-M easily walks all over Atom. The A8X in the iPad Air 2 is also significantly more powerful than Atom x7. In fact, the A8X is competitive with Core-M.
    Not according to the benchmarks... The Core M pulls slightly ahead in single-core performance with the Atom pulling just as ahead in multi-threaded performance.
    05-22-2015 10:12 AM
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