Nvidia GeForce GTX 960M graphics card for the Surface Book - right choice?

[JoelMaths]

Could Microsoft have gone for a more powerful card? Or would AMD have been a better choice? Compatibility with the Nvidia Graphics Amplifier would be killer, IMO.

 

[rhapdog]

I believe the choice they made is the absolutely most powerful GPU they could get into this machine and have the battery life that they wanted to achieve with it. With a product that is meant as a direct MacBook killer, they had to get a LONG battery life out of it.

With the choice they have made, it's a killer on both battery life and GPU power. AMD, while they make great graphics, they also make graphics that draw a lot of power which will hit your battery life pretty hard.

 

[Ultimaty]

I really truly hope that it will be better than 960m.

Sure, 960m is way better than Intel chips, but yet I'm afraid it won't be enough to handle any serious 3D games at Surface Book's native resolution.

At least there should be an option for 980m, after all it's supposed to be the most powerful laptop on any planet.

I was about to instant pre-order, but the lack of 1TB version and the uncertainty regarding GPU model, I'll hold my breath...

 

[StevoPhilo]

Nvidia is definitely the better way to go for most digital artists and even to some gamers. I do think AMD has the edge when it comes to native DX11 reports, but it's still too early to tell.
Either way if they could implement upgraded graphics through the dock and just sell it through the dock I think that could lead to new ways of selling upgrades for these mobile device. It'd be nice if 3 years down the line I could just buy the newer docking keyboard to get the better graphics and potential battery life. The possibilities are endless!

 

[Reflexx]

Could Microsoft have gone for a more powerful card? Or would AMD have been a better choice? Compatibility with the Nvidia Graphics Amplifier would be killer, IMO.

That would be awesome. But don't the graphics amplifiers only work with certain Alienware laptops? Nothing beats a full desktop graphics card.

If they had that option, it would be a slam dunk purchase. Heck... imagine if they added that to the Surface Pro dock.

 

[vladi]

If it was 960 they would have mentioned it. Since they didn't mention it I believe its in Iris Pro rank or such.

 

[Ultimaty]

No way, they mentioned NVidia GPU with DDR5, so it should be at least 950m or more.

 

[Byungdon Min]

I really truly hope that it will be better than 960m.

Sure, 960m is way better than Intel chips, but yet I'm afraid it won't be enough to handle any serious 3D games at Surface Book's native resolution.

At least there should be an option for 980m, after all it's supposed to be the most powerful laptop on any planet.

I was about to instant pre-order, but the lack of 1TB version and the uncertainty regarding GPU model, I'll hold my breath...

I doubt GTX 980M is even possible to go into that keyboard portion with current spec. I mean, I believe it is unrealistic expectation. It's just too high expectation.

To me, 960M is still fairly impressive considering how thin the form factor is.

Note i5-6300U has TDP of 15W, and low power consuming family of i7 has also similar TDP. GTX 960M has TDP around 60 W. It means this GPU likely consumes about 4 times more electricity, and generate 4 times more heat than CPU. Dedicated GPU is one of the most power consuming components in PC if not the most(In this case, I believe it is the most). And more heat means it needs more cooling solution, which is more copper/aluminum heatsink/heatpipes and fans.

With thin form factor, it is very difficult to cram in high power consuming processor without having problem.

About 7~8 years ago, I have used 17 inch gaming laptop with Geforce 9800M GS(which has similar TDP compared to GTX 960M), and my laptop battery ran out within 2 hours if I play intense gaming.

Of course, intense gaming and watching video are not same, but 12 hour running times with similar power consuming GPU is still impressive for me, because battery technology has been stagnated and not improved at all. With similar size battery, you should expect about same capacity. and since we are comparing 17 inch gaming laptop to thin 13 inch tablet, I cannot say surface book has much bigger battery. I understand nowadays company starts to minimize their circuit board, and maximize internal space and cram in largest battery as possible. And low battery profiles are more common. But still, there is size difference, and considering these circumstance, that is impressive improvement.

Back to GTX 980M, GTX 980M consumes about double electricity compared to GTX 960M around 122W

Considering these information, can any company possibly cram in GTX 980M into thin & relatively small form factor with 10+ hours of battery life with dissipate heat properly?

My opinion is 'No'. GTX 950M ~ 960M sounds possible(still impressive), but 980M? I think they cannot cram the thing in there. Not just because of battery life, but there is also heat dissipation issue.

I understand your point: GTX960M is not enough for any serious 3D game with 3000x2000 resolution or something similar. However, I doubt they are truly meant for 3D gaming with 3000x2000 resolution.

If they are thin, even laptops that advertize themselves as hardcore gaming laptops(ex:new Razer blade), usually do not have GTX 980M. For example, 2015 Razer blade has 970M, Instead. Note Razer blade also has high 3200x1800 resolution.

And Surface book was not advertized as hardcore gaming laptops; it is even smaller (13.5 inch) than 14inch Razer blade. GTX 980M? That is usually for laptop which is not ultrabook, with 15inch+ size, and giving up all the battery life.

Smallest laptop with GTX 980M in current market I can find is Gigabyte P35X v3, which is 15.6 inch laptop. Of course not thin, and larger than that of surface book, yet has around 3 hours of battery life with casual usage.

Also, note price difference between non dGPU version of Surface book and Surface book with dGPU is merely 200 bucks, and I am also seriously doubt GTX980M is can be bought with 200 bucks. By the way according to dell's Alienware, upgrading from GTX 965M to GTX 980M costs 500 bucks.

 

[Great deal]

This is not a gaming device, at least its not been built specifically for games. If its a 3D gaming mobile rig you need then the new generation of fully fledged graphics cards in laptops are coming, they are fat and have external fans. Some people want technology 5 years away, today. Not happening, not yet.

 

[vladi]

This is most likely some custom GPU made specially for SP4 needs. I will say it again if this was any Nvidia branded GPU, especially 900 series they would have announced it.

 

[realwarder]

It was the perfect choice. Unless you wanted a turbo fan, heavy laptop and battery life of 4 hours.

This gives great performance and a great experience.

 

[savagelizards]

I believe the secret is the new Windows 10 technology that allows the OS to take advantage of multiple GPU processing. That's why Panos Panay said that the Surface Book had two chips.

Remember that you heard it from me first, but when running as a tablet ("clipboard" mode), it uses integrated Intel GPU processing. When running with the keyboard attached (either as a laptop or with the screen reversed and the keyboard re-attached) it will use both the 960 (housed in the keyboard) AND the integrated Intel GPU.

@Daniel_Rubino can you confirm this?

 

[nasellok]

That would be awesome. But don't the graphics amplifiers only work with certain Alienware laptops? Nothing beats a full desktop graphics card.

If they had that option, it would be a slam dunk purchase. Heck... imagine if they added that to the Surface Pro dock.

If Surface Pro 4 docking station had a desktop class gpu available - id buy one yesterday!!!!

 

[pankaj981]

Get a Sager, MSI or Asus (something that support MXM) if you're REALLY into gaming and want a laptop. Surface book is aimed at a very niche crowd, definitely not gaming. Imagine the WSAD keys all whacked out on a 1400+ machine. Gaming laptops have specially designed keyboards to take that kind of stress.

 

[JoelMaths]

Hmm, for all such speculation, it seems like we still do not have official confirmation from either Microsoft or Nvidia as to which EXACT GPU is inside the Surface Book. Microsoft's own Store page says "i5/i7: NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Processor". Nvidia posted an article on its blog yesterday specifically for the Surface Book, but that did not help matters either.

So, as of now, I'd assume the GeForce GTX 960M is the MOST PROBABLE GPU on the Surface Book, until Microsoft or Nvidia comes out with the exact name.

 

[Byungdon Min]

Hmm, for all such speculation, it seems like we still do not have official confirmation from either Microsoft or Nvidia as to which EXACT GPU is inside the Surface Book. Microsoft's own Store page says "i5/i7: NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Processor". Nvidia posted an article on its blog yesterday specifically for the Surface Book, but that did not help matters either.

So, as of now, I'd assume the GeForce GTX 960M is the MOST PROBABLE GPU on the Surface Book, until Microsoft or Nvidia comes out with the exact name.

I heard some people said MS representative confirms it is GTX 960M, and I also heard people who got their hands on surface book could not confirm its GPU model, because it does not show up in system information.

My assumption is that it is custom GPU derived from GTX 960M. Probably low power consumption version of GTX 960M, which means it has slightly worse performance than that of GTX 960M. This is probably one of reasons why they did not reveal the spec officially at first place. Because it is technically not GTX 960M, and that's reason why it does not show up in system information, because they do not have that GPU model in their database.

 

[FXi2]

960M even downclocked too much power for a 65W psu powered total system. You are looking at a 940M or 950M downclocked.
Mind you this is still very good for the size of the device.

 

[TechFreak1]

No one has mentioned that the xbox team and the surface team worked on the Surface book. Given they have been able to get PowerPC emulation done natively on the X1 given it's specs; I would say we should be in for a shocker here. We're going to know by the end of Oct when all the reviews and benchmarks are out.

Similarly the Surface team worked with the phone team in regards to the cooling, if they keep working collectively like this we are in for a exciting future imo.

 

[Byungdon Min]

960M even downclocked too much power for a 65W psu powered total system. You are looking at a 940M or 950M downclocked.
Mind you this is still very good for the size of the device.

I have not realized it has 65W adapter. That gives a fair amount of information.
It is a clear indication of GTX970M(TDP 100W) or higher is definitely impossible.
Probably GTX965 is also out of range.

By the way, GT 940M has DDR3, and MS reveals it has GDDR5. So it should be minimum GTX 950M

Though I still believe 960M is possible if it is downclocked,
TDP is usually 'maximum' power draw, rather than average or rough power draw during gaming.
(They usually consumes less than TDP even during intense workload.)

Considering these information, and if GTX 960M is downclocked properly, I think GTX 960M is still possible.
Though downclocked GTX960M is probably highest spec GPU they can offer with 65W adapter.

 

[ExTrAbUtTa]

As others have pointed out... if you are truly, TRULY, trying to game on the highest level, being mobile.. then you need to look elsewhere for your laptop needs. This is for editors, video, music, artists.. areas where this type of chip can offer very good performance. Extended gaming of say Witcher 3 at Ultra, this will not do. Of course, there are PLENTY of options from MS partners that would fit those needs. We are a LONG way off from a device, as thin and versatile as the Surface Book that can game at that level.

However, besides that the choice they made I think is the best they could use for the results they wanted. For my needs this could do very well and I'm heavily contemplating whether to purchase or build something.