02-12-2020 02:27 PM
56 123
tools
  1. nate0's Avatar
    Well yes but, if they had amazon apps + UWP apps, it would be better than either alone, in terms of app count. In fact, they could bundle win32 support for a continuum mode. I'm not saying that's a good route, I'm just saying it's not as silly an idea for microsoft specifically, as it is for other companies.
    It's already known that windows 10x runs win32 sandboxed. Uwp apps are still just barely breaking the crust and now that they have a surface device that might be running Android in the foreseeable future on its iterations they won't attempt to sandbox or bring Android apps to Windows (not that this would be a good idea nor am I saying they wanted a round 2 of that bridge...)

    They will have a device for Android apps and one for there bread and butter win32/uwp. It is what is.

    I'm curious what made them decide they could dump all their development into Android all of a sudden... After cutting all windows mobile folks off over the past 3 years now they'll be hiring a bunch of web and Android devs lol.
    10-19-2019 11:17 PM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    It's already known that windows 10x runs win32 sandboxed. Uwp apps are still just barely breaking the crust and now that they have a surface device that might be running Android in the foreseeable future on its iterations they won't attempt to sandbox or bring Android apps to Windows (not that this would be a good idea nor am I saying they wanted a round 2 of that bridge...)

    They will have a device for Android apps and one for there bread and butter win32/uwp. It is what is.

    I'm curious what made them decide they could dump all their development into Android all of a sudden... After cutting all windows mobile folks off over the past 3 years now they'll be hiring a bunch of web and Android devs lol.
    The thing is - there are no dual screen apps on android. There are no dual screen apps on windows. Devs will likely pick one. It doesn't matter how much inhouse dev microsoft does, if the dual screen software isn't up to scratch, it'll flop. Having two separate software environments increases that risk considerably.

    Unless xamarin etc is a seemless one click compile (no code difference between duo and neo), then the stiffles the development of dual screen apps for both platforms.

    It also get's in the way of UWA expansion, which is key to the long term one OS strategy. That could mean nearly a decade of investment, washed down the loo before it's even prime time for a more diversified computing market - core OS, cshell, onecore, UWA, windows on arm - that's a serious financial investment, and generally you don't cut ties until you know it cannot succeed (and I don't think we know that).

    There's a lot of risk introduced here, unless MSFT has some secrets up it's sleeve. It's not just the issue of 'it's android, yucky', as some users might see it. It's a commercial risk that stands in the way of the entire vision of the company, and potentially, it's broader than desktop success.

    I mean, let's say Duo cannot run UWA, or that the bridge isn't seamless, one click, no difference. And let's say the Duo sells better than the neo.

    What then happens with windows on arm, windows core OS, and hololens? These platforms depend on UWA development, and the shared UWA development across as many successful platforms as possible.

    Win32 running sandboxed is all good and well. But that actually eliminates some of users, who want system access to their program files. It's also less than ideal for a mostly touch, or all touch tablet OS. Unless those devs are at least using SOME of the UWA apis, and incorporating scaling, it's an awkward fit.

    I just hope this isn't some board room stuff, because a company needs a leader, not leadership by commitee. This could be a fumble.
    nate0 likes this.
    10-22-2019 01:12 AM
  3. nate0's Avatar
    The thing is - there are no dual screen apps on android. There are no dual screen apps on windows. Devs will likely pick one. It doesn't matter how much inhouse dev microsoft does, if the dual screen software isn't up to scratch, it'll flop. Having two separate software environments increases that risk considerably.

    Unless xamarin etc is a seemless one click compile (no code difference between duo and neo), then the stiffles the development of dual screen apps for both platforms.

    It also get's in the way of UWA expansion, which is key to the long term one OS strategy. That could mean nearly a decade of investment, washed down the loo before it's even prime time for a more diversified computing market - core OS, cshell, onecore, UWA, windows on arm - that's a serious financial investment, and generally you don't cut ties until you know it cannot succeed (and I don't think we know that).

    There's a lot of risk introduced here, unless MSFT has some secrets up it's sleeve. It's not just the issue of 'it's android, yucky', as some users might see it. It's a commercial risk that stands in the way of the entire vision of the company, and potentially, it's broader than desktop success.

    I mean, let's say Duo cannot run UWA, or that the bridge isn't seamless, one click, no difference. And let's say the Duo sells better than the neo.

    What then happens with windows on arm, windows core OS, and hololens? These platforms depend on UWA development, and the shared UWA development across as many successful platforms as possible.

    Win32 running sandboxed is all good and well. But that actually eliminates some of users, who want system access to their program files. It's also less than ideal for a mostly touch, or all touch tablet OS. Unless those devs are at least using SOME of the UWA apis, and incorporating scaling, it's an awkward fit.

    I just hope this isn't some board room stuff, because a company needs a leader, not leadership by commitee. This could be a fumble.
    Ya I like the way you stated this.

    They wanted a mobile presence so badly they had to bring a device with Android. There is just no other way they can sell a device of that design and purpose. Because Microsoft phones/mobile is synonymous with dead. So in one way they have a road map here, probably a secret one at that. They caught everyone by surprise with the Duo...
    Drael646464 likes this.
    10-22-2019 01:19 AM
  4. sd4f's Avatar
    Ya I like the way you stated this.

    They wanted a mobile presence so badly they had to bring a device with Android. There is just no other way they can sell a device of that design and purpose. Because Microsoft phones/mobile is synonymous with dead. So in one way they have a road map here, probably a secret one at that. They caught everyone by surprise with the Duo...
    I think it's their plan to get apps on their systems by trying to be as platform agnostic as possible with their tools. That is to say, I get the feeling that the developer tools have to be code once and compile for all desired platforms. I just can't see any success with this strategy otherwise, more to the point, I don't think the neo has a good chance at success in any case, but it's doomed without it.

    The problem that I have is that from a business case outlook, developers aren't really going to flock to invest in new apps or redesigns to cater for dual screen devices. The duo and neo will probably be expensive, and I really doubt that the sales of those devices aren't going to stimulate any serious app development. WP had millions of users, and that wasn't enough.
    nate0 likes this.
    11-13-2019 08:04 AM
  5. nate0's Avatar
    I think it's their plan to get apps on their systems by trying to be as platform agnostic as possible with their tools. That is to say, I get the feeling that the developer tools have to be code once and compile for all desired platforms. I just can't see any success with this strategy otherwise, more to the point, I don't think the neo has a good chance at success in any case, but it's doomed without it.

    The problem that I have is that from a business case outlook, developers aren't really going to flock to invest in new apps or redesigns to cater for dual screen devices. The duo and neo will probably be expensive, and I really doubt that the sales of those devices aren't going to stimulate any serious app development. WP had millions of users, and that wasn't enough.
    At the core Microsoft is a software company. Satya Nadella though has recognized that Hardware it's just as important as software. Even though we already know this and most other tech companies do as well the big ones.

    Now where the Duo fits in has to do with Microsoft's complete software presence on Android and no mobile presence in the Windows world. That's the only way I understand it at this point.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-13-2019 10:31 AM
  6. brau0303's Avatar
    I am rather excited about this device. I kind of think that a well executed dual screen device may be a more durable option than folding screen (moisture/dust protection are important considerations now that they have become the norm), either way I am interested to see how both types of folding devices evolve.

    Cheers,
    BR
    ochhanz likes this.
    02-12-2020 02:27 PM
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