Warm Welcome to the Duo

[camaroz1985]

I'm glad they showed it now coming the end of 2020 so I can start saving my pennies. I think with this and the Neo, I could be spending a lot of money.

 

[Jackie Earley]

I'm hoping MS does a good job of stripping Google from the DUO or at least allow Google apps to be uninstalled completely. A launcher that resembles Win 10 would be nice. I currently use MS Launcher and its OK, but not as good as W10M IMO. I'm all in if MS can make this work well with minimal Google bloat and with an exceptional camera.

I would assume that allowing Google apps to be removed is going to happen. Remember, Microsoft wants you to use their services instead of Google's despite using their operating system. I would like to think they are going to either shove all Google apps that are required at a minimum to have the Play Store into a folder that will probably be located in the all apps page and by default everything they have will be defaulted in Microsoft Launcher.

While Neo will most likely have a camera similar to what launch in their other Surface devices, that camera hole in the prototype was fairly large. So I would assume they know that if they want to do right by their fans, to include a Lumia quality camera into it. Considering the thinness of the device I sure hope they can manage to not have a camera bump as folding it with that will not be good.

 

[mtf1380]

I literally had a tear come to my eye when Panos introduced the Duo (no joke! left eye...right side stayed macho.

I would think that at this early stage - and the release date so far out - Microsoft will keep A LOT of the 'treasured features' close to the vest, to keep the competition guessing...but, I would bet that they will have a base price that is very, very reasonable, going all the way to too much for the average consumer. I cannot imagine that one of those treasured features won't include a great camera.

I don't remember hearing anything with regards to inking (or a pen), did I miss something? after all my vision was blurred...hehe!

 

[TechFreak1]

@xchaser cheers for the video, watched it and he missed one element that Panos Panay mentioned that the pen recharges whilst attached to the Surface Neo. Unless that was a feature that was added after Marque's visit therefore that miss is totally understandable.

Also Microsoft can easily add two batteries on each side of the screen, this allows for higher total capacity whilst reducing the size of each battery in terms of thickness thus enabling for a thinner and lighter device whilst maintaining uniform weight distribution.

Lastly, I imagine it would be android emulation within a sandbox because native android introduces two extremely critical failure points.

1)Introduction of android based malware into the windows ecosystem along with android based zero day exploits.

2)Decimates any incentive for developers to develop a Universal Windows App, as after all if you can create one android app and get access two ecosystems - both Android and Windows.

Why would you bother developing a UWA?

Personally, I'm pumped about the Duo - there is an entire year until release of the Duo so things will change as a year in the technosphere is an extremely long time.

Edit: According to Jez, the Duo runs purely Android.... now if you excuse me.. I'm going to find a well and shout obscene words down the well until my voice goes.

 

[nate0]

@xchaser cheers for the video, watched it and he missed one element that Panos Panay mentioned that the pen recharges whilst attached to the Surface Neo. Unless that was a feature that was added after Marque's visit therefore that miss is totally understandable.

Also Microsoft can easily add two batteries on each side of the screen, this allows for higher total capacity whilst reducing the size of each battery in terms of thickness thus enabling for a thinner and lighter device whilst maintaining uniform weight distribution.

Lastly, I imagine it would be android emulation within a sandbox because native android introduces two extremely critical failure points.

1)Introduction of android based malware into the windows ecosystem along with android based zero day exploits.

2)Decimates any incentive for developers to develop a Universal Windows App, as after all if you can create one android app and get access two ecosystems - both Android and Windows.

Why would you bother developing a UWA?

Personally, I'm pumped about the Duo - there is an entire year until release of the Duo so things will change as a year in the technosphere is an extremely long time.

Edit: According to Jez, the Duo runs purely Android.... now if you excuse me.. I'm going to find a well and shout obscene words down the well until my voice goes.

I feel ya man... I'm still partially boggled why they won't release an identical device to the DUO running WoA or WCOS. The Neo is pretty close, just too big and we're not told it's a cellular device... What do they really have to prove by releasing an android one or what are they really after? I'm not against it I'm just wanting them to embrace their own ability to build a mobile device with Windows as well as one with Android. They just seem to want to avoid that avenue still. Or maybe they still are not ready?

 

[TechFreak1]

I feel ya man... I'm still partially boggled why they won't release an identical device to the DUO running WoA or WCOS. The Neo is pretty close, just too big and we're not told it's a cellular device... What do they really have to prove by releasing an android one or what are they really after? I'm not against it I'm just wanting them to embrace their own ability to build a mobile device with Windows as well as one with Android. They just seem to want to avoid that avenue still. Or maybe they still are not ready?

I'm not against the use of Android on the Duo I'm far more concerned about the greater consequences of this pathway. As I can only see Google grow even more in dominance and that does not bode well for anyone (other Google's execs) and the web as awhole.

I know I'm not the only one who would love to be able to dual boot the duo (perfect name too but Google being Google won't allow it - because that opens up the market for other mobile devices running Windows or WoA).

To be honest?

The DUO provides credence to the rumours that Paul Thurrot mentioned in passing in Windows Weekly awhile back that there was a group of people in senior positions pushing for android based mobile device.

My guess?

Either these folks don't understand the concept of transitional leverage / growth points - i.e a company using a core base to spring board products and services from allowing for a back catalogue of applications - best example Windows. Or they do but they just seem to always lose the plot when it comes to mobile.

Or perhaps they are just being pushed by other external factors i.e. family members and friends. Who knows... after all most people think about issues when it directly affects them.

It does boggle the mind Why develop WoA if you aren't going to use it for a mobile device?

Especially UWA's can dynamically scale to any screen size...

Then again it goes back to the old saying, logic and Microsoft often cannot be used the same sentence. I.e. they stopped the update from WM6.5 to Wp7 because WM6.5 phones didn't have the physical three buttons only to roll that back so hard that we saw phones launch with dots as opposed to "uniform icons" thus shoving that desire of a "cohesive experience" down the pan.

In the end who knows... this whole palova is exhausting... lol.

 

[Drael646464]

You notice how they never talked price yet. Yes it is a year out almost but...If this drops some time in 2020, with only minor changes and an older SoC which I actually kinda hope they do (Since Android specs are trivial), they should undercut all other fordable phones on that point.

Correct, modern premium and midrange phones are overkill for everything but recent gen game emulation. There would be no harm whatsoever in using a current SoC, and selling it at a much more affordable price point.

Between a viable price, and actual durability, it could well be the only foldable left standing.

 

[Drael646464]

I'm not against the use of Android on the Duo I'm far more concerned about the greater consequences of this pathway. As I can only see Google grow even more in dominance and that does not bode well for anyone (other Google's execs) and the web as awhole.

I know I'm not the only one who would love to be able to dual boot the duo (perfect name too but Google being Google won't allow it - because that opens up the market for other mobile devices running Windows or WoA).

To be honest?

The DUO provides credence to the rumours that Paul Thurrot mentioned in passing in Windows Weekly awhile back that there was a group of people in senior positions pushing for android based mobile device.

My guess?

Either these folks don't understand the concept of transitional leverage / growth points - i.e a company using a core base to spring board products and services from allowing for a back catalogue of applications - best example Windows. Or they do but they just seem to always lose the plot when it comes to mobile.

Or perhaps they are just being pushed by other external factors i.e. family members and friends. Who knows... after all most people think about issues when it directly affects them.

It does boggle the mind Why develop WoA if you aren't going to use it for a mobile device?

Especially UWA's can dynamically scale to any screen size...

Then again it goes back to the old saying, logic and Microsoft often cannot be used the same sentence. I.e. they stopped the update from WM6.5 to Wp7 because WM6.5 phones didn't have the physical three buttons only to roll that back so hard that we saw phones launch with dots as opposed to "uniform icons" thus shoving that desire of a "cohesive experience" down the pan.

In the end who knows... this whole palova is exhausting... lol.

Bridging between windows strong point - desktop applications, and the intended goal - any input, any output, is a long term goal, and probably the most ambitious software project ever. Windows has not yet even had much success on an all touch platform, let alone a small all touch platform.

The next phase to me, is clearly that - arm based, all touch, or mostly touch based devices via things like the neo. Rather than the still fairly keyboard and mouse centric 2 in 1.

That will encourage development of arm compiled win32 applications that have the scaling grace of UWPs. In the meantime, PWA is slowly growing.

If, as Nadella implies, the software for dual screen devices will be encouraged to be relatively OS agnostic, then switching to windows core later might be fairly trivial. Because at this stage only microsoft based devices have dual screens, software written for them might have relatively little to do with the host OS, and may be highly portable between those devices.

 

[Drael646464]

@xchaser cheers for the video, watched it and he missed one element that Panos Panay mentioned that the pen recharges whilst attached to the Surface Neo. Unless that was a feature that was added after Marque's visit therefore that miss is totally understandable.

Also Microsoft can easily add two batteries on each side of the screen, this allows for higher total capacity whilst reducing the size of each battery in terms of thickness thus enabling for a thinner and lighter device whilst maintaining uniform weight distribution.

Lastly, I imagine it would be android emulation within a sandbox because native android introduces two extremely critical failure points.

1)Introduction of android based malware into the windows ecosystem along with android based zero day exploits.

2)Decimates any incentive for developers to develop a Universal Windows App, as after all if you can create one android app and get access two ecosystems - both Android and Windows.

Why would you bother developing a UWA?

Personally, I'm pumped about the Duo - there is an entire year until release of the Duo so things will change as a year in the technosphere is an extremely long time.

Edit: According to Jez, the Duo runs purely Android.... now if you excuse me.. I'm going to find a well and shout obscene words down the well until my voice goes.

There is footage of a pen being used.

And panos has hinted at a clever, unusual solution for the camera.

 

[TechFreak1]

Bridging between windows strong point - desktop applications, and the intended goal - any input, any output, is a long term goal, and probably the most ambitious software project ever. Windows has not yet even had much success on an all touch platform, let alone a small all touch platform.

The next phase to me, is clearly that - arm based, all touch, or mostly touch based devices via things like the neo. Rather than the still fairly keyboard and mouse centric 2 in 1.

That will encourage development of arm compiled win32 applications that have the scaling grace of UWPs. In the meantime, PWA is slowly growing.

If, as Nadella implies, the software for dual screen devices will be encouraged to be relatively OS agnostic, then switching to windows core later might be fairly trivial. Because at this stage only microsoft based devices have dual screens, software written for them might have relatively little to do with the host OS, and may be highly portable between those devices.

1) There are many reasons why touch "failed" for Microsoft but they have already been discussed adnausem.

There is footage of a pen being used.

And panos has hinted at a clever, unusual solution for the camera.

2) I didn't say the Pen wasn't being used lol.

In any case there is still over 12 months so there is still time for Microsoft to release a WoA version of the Duo. If they do I'm buying it in a heart beat... because by then I will have plenty of money saved for an outright purchase lol.

The more I look into the Duo... the my admiration of the astounding levels of engineering of the DUO just grows.

To be able to create a hinge that is both sturdy that can maintain various angles AND be easy as well smooth to operate / open is no easy task.

 

[Drael646464]

1) There are many reasons why touch "failed" for Microsoft but they have already been discussed adnausem.




2) I didn't say the Pen wasn't being used lol.

In any case there is still over 12 months so there is still time for Microsoft to release a WoA version of the Duo. If they do I'm buying it in a heart beat... because by then I will have plenty of money saved for an outright purchase lol.

The more I look into the Duo... the my admiration of the astounding levels of engineering of the DUO just grows.

To be able to create a hinge that is both sturdy that can maintain various angles AND be easy as well smooth to operate / open is no easy task.

Yeah that hinge is a peice of art.

 

[justjun555]

There is footage of a pen being used.

And panos has hinted at a clever, unusual solution for the camera.

Can you elaborate what panos said about camera solution. Did he hinted split camera setup that Microsoft patented.

 

[Drael646464]

Can you elaborate what panos said about camera solution. Did he hinted split camera setup that Microsoft patented.

He just said, in response to 'does it have a back camera' something like 'Yeah, that's something we are working to a solution on, but don't want to say what it is, because we don't want competitors copying us'.

Obviously it's not stritcly a normal camera setup.

 

[sd4f]

@xchaser

1)Introduction of android based malware into the windows ecosystem along with android based zero day exploits.

2)Decimates any incentive for developers to develop a Universal Windows App, as after all if you can create one android app and get access two ecosystems - both Android and Windows.

The thing is, you look at the rise of google; they piggy backed off existing systems to entrench themselves and become a huge company in the process, by being able to compete against microsoft and in mobile succeed against MS.

So, I think MS strategy is basically realising that they lost so now they can clean the slate and start from a position where all options are back on the table in order to try and make money. Ultimately they're deciding in the mobile space, to leave it to google to do all the heavy lifting with maintaining android, they just parachute in with their apps and services. Google owns the platform, but they're also having massive anti-trust issues, MS not being involved with the platform, they can make huge strides and possibly direct things towards windows, if that's their plan.

I do agree with the UWP thing. I can't see it going anywhere, the app store looks kind of done, and I don't think they're placing a whole lot of effort there. The Neo possibly goes some way to attempt to address it, but I just don't see it taking off. It's kind of like the surface studio; it will appeal to a very niche set of users, and that's about it.

I have no idea whether a Windows 10X duo would have a better chance, I get the feeling that the android device ultimately won't have any apps designed around its advantages, it's all going to have to rely on the OS to do anything.

 

[Skippy07]

I feel ya man... I'm still partially boggled why they won't release an identical device to the DUO running WoA or WCOS. The Neo is pretty close, just too big and we're not told it's a cellular device... What do they really have to prove by releasing an android one or what are they really after? I'm not against it I'm just wanting them to embrace their own ability to build a mobile device with Windows as well as one with Android. They just seem to want to avoid that avenue still. Or maybe they still are not ready?

I initially thought the same thing, but I quickly remembered, it's all about the Apps.

 

[nate0]

I initially thought the same thing, but I quickly remembered, it's all about the Apps.

Ditto ditto... I thought that as well but being a software company they can make room for uwp, pwa, win32, etc etc on one device if they wanted too. Heck just run it with Chromium Edge and I'll be good to go with that messaging phone and outlook.

 

[Razius]

One of the prototypes had a camera cutout on the back of the device. I imagine that's what they will focus on this next year.

 

[Razius]

Yeah that hinge is a peice of art.

I'm excited to get my hands on that hinge. I'm still impressed with the hinge on my Surface Pro 4. Years later and not a single sign that the hinge is wearing out or has any issues.

 

[Razius]

I for one am totally all in on whatever the final product will look like. While yes it runs Android, I believe this opens the door for them to continue to iterate on this form factor and potential OS's.

 

[camaroz1985]

While I am now heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem from a phone standpoint, everything else in our house (smart everything, speakers, etc.) works with Android/Google as well or better. There weren't any compelling devices that would make me switch until this was shown.

There is a very large possibility I would even pre-order this device. I would have to see if I could make this replace my SP3 and iPhone X (Android might make that a little harder, but realistically I only use my SP3 for Office and web functions anyway, so it should be doable). That would be the dream to have the best of both in one device, and nothing else has come as close as the Duo.