S-DUO might run UWP & Win 32 apps though virtualization & cloud suppport!

[N_LaRUE]

Virtually no one uses MS services on android, and the profits from that are piffling.

I think Daniel Robino would disagree with this statement.

https://www.windowscentral.com/why-surface-neo-and-surface-duo-run-different-operating-systems

Read the comments that Daniel has left in there.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I'd say software. Azure is about 1/3 of business, but so are games. Certainly, hardware doesn't matter jack, except as a means to expand their OS capabilities to new users. But OS kind of does; they have a lot more power to push their profits if they control the environment. Virtually no one uses MS services on android, and the profits from that are piffling. In that, I think actually hardware and OS do both matter - if windows didn't exist, or xbox, microsoft would barely be anything.

MS makes a lot of money in a lot of different ways. Mostly on services. Services can be software, OS, etc. Enterprises that use MS products and services are based on subscriptions.

The more I read comments concerning MS the more I'm coming to the realisation that a lot of people are hung up on Windows and have very little clue what else MS does.

That's a general statement.

 

[Drael646464]

MS makes a lot of money in a lot of different ways. Mostly on services. Services can be software, OS, etc. Enterprises that use MS products and services are based on subscriptions.

The more I read comments concerning MS the more I'm coming to the realisation that a lot of people are hung up on Windows and have very little clue what else MS does.

That's a general statement.

Well Windows 10 whilst not wildly profitable in itself serves the same role as android and chrome do for google. They are a marketplace for their software. The platform for everything else.

MS makes about 9 billion for it's could catergory which includes azure, office subscriptions etc, 10 billion from enterprise, 9 billion for intelligent edge, including microsoft networking in enterprise and azure +They make about 13 billion for their more computing category with includes gaming, windows licenses, surface products and search advertising (some of those obvious overlap).

I suppose if you want to include all software as 'a service' even if it's not a subscription model, most of it is a service. But it's still a selection of services that would be considerably less profitable without windows.

No one specifically tallies the profits from services sold on phones, but I seriously doubt it compares favourably to any of these other segments. I wonder if it even competes much with profits from surface devices, let alone the massive profits from sale of software on windows itself.

If it did, they'd be spending more money on developing it. Look at the selection of android apps, and compare to the complexity of something like azure, windows server, or their extensive selection of gaming houses. It's anaemic, really. Obviously, they want to expand into it, but I think honestly that's more about 'mindshare' than it is about pure profitability.

I mean google is king of android, and the vast majority of their money comes from search advertising. Stuff like cloud storage etc: It's big money for small fish, but small money for big fish. Most of what Google offers as services aren't really that profitable, they just keep people using google search.

 

[Drael646464]

I think Daniel Robino would disagree with this statement.

https://www.windowscentral.com/why-surface-neo-and-surface-duo-run-different-operating-systems

Read the comments that Daniel has left in there.

Daniel talks a big game, but he has a reasonably prominent record of predictions that turned out to be wrong. He was just saying a month ago how 'andromeda' was scraped and there would be no phone. His 'inside information' is severely wonky.

His arguments about how skype is popular on android etc are kind of moot; how much actual money does that make versus say, office subscriptions on windows 10? I'm not saying it makes no money, I'm just saying it's ALL small biscuits next to anything happening on a desktop or laptop or xbox.

 

[Drael646464]

I don't think it will happen. As MS mentioned they worked with Google on the Duo, chances are they'd never allow anything like that which threatens their ecosystem.

There are a whole host of emulators in the play store. There have been win32 emulators in the playstore, it was just killed because MSFT owns the patents. The number of people out there playing PSP games is reasonably high.

AFAIK the conditions of licensing do not stipulate anything that could prevent an emulated software subsystem. Likewise, if xbox games can be streamed with low latency, anything can. If google took a stand against emulation, or streaming, it would a bigger deal than something just between google and msft.

Mind you I have no idea what MSFT plan. I doubt android is a long term game plan. I think running on the android platform and having that compete with the duo for developer attention without the easiest software bridge in the history of software bridges is a mistake. But I have no idea what they have up their sleeve, or don't.

I've been here long enough to know they have 1 parts genius, 1 parts what the hell are you thinking, and unlike the old days, they actually keep secrets.

 

[Ryujingt3]

MS won't want to burden the Duo with emulation. Android may now be the long game for MS after all.

 

[Renoktation]

MS makes a lot of money in a lot of different ways. Mostly on services. Services can be software, OS, etc. Enterprises that use MS products and services are based on subscriptions.

The more I read comments concerning MS the more I'm coming to the realisation that a lot of people are hung up on Windows and have very little clue what else MS does.

That's a general statement.

I have been working in an corporate environment for the last 8 years. Initially we were using G-Suite. It was cheap and got the work done. Then some day, IT decided to switch to office 365 and SharePoint. With that came a number of apps like Delve, Dynamics 365, Flow, Kaizala, MyAnalytics, PowerApps, Stream, Sway and many more. Recently, our laptops were upgraded to Windows Enterprise. It has been more than a year now and still no one uses any of these apps! We have full fledged SAP in use today.

And still we are paying Microsoft loads of money on an annual basis. I guess these subscription fees are a very small percentage of opex cost and results in savings as compared to taking separate Windows licences and Office licenses.

But my point here is that Microsoft is not that successful in enterprises as they claim to be. Microsoft - Windows - Office = 0. That's the ground reality.

 

[tgp]

I have been working in an corporate environment for the last 8 years. Initially we were using G-Suite. It was cheap and got the work done. Then some day, IT decided to switch to office 365 and SharePoint. With that came a number of apps like Delve, Dynamics 365, Flow, Kaizala, MyAnalytics, PowerApps, Stream, Sway and many more. Recently, our laptops were upgraded to Windows Enterprise. It has been more than a year now and still no one uses any of these apps! We have full fledged SAP in use today.

I used to work for a Microsoft VAR. I found similar things with many of our customers. We can say "Microsoft's products are so much more advanced than the competition's. Windows is so much more capable than Chrome OS."

This is true, and there is no denying it. However, very few customers actually need or even want those capabilities. We had people bringing their PCs into our PC repair department to get viruses removed from their computers, to get them running after a botched Windows update, or because the printer lost connection to the PC. Do you know what most of them use their computers for? They run the Chrome browser.

Do you know what most businesses use Office 365 for? They use Word for typing up documents and Excel for adding up numbers in columns. Trying to sell the advantages of Excel for example over Numbers or Sheets is a lost cause, because Numbers and Sheets are way more than almost everyone uses.

People do not use a fraction of their devices' and programs' capabilities. The simplest of machines and software are more than adequate for almost everyone.

 

[Jamie Brahm]

I have been working in an corporate environment for the last 8 years. Initially we were using G-Suite. It was cheap and got the work done. Then some day, IT decided to switch to office 365 and SharePoint. With that came a number of apps like Delve, Dynamics 365, Flow, Kaizala, MyAnalytics, PowerApps, Stream, Sway and many more. Recently, our laptops were upgraded to Windows Enterprise. It has been more than a year now and still no one uses any of these apps! We have full fledged SAP in use today.

That might be true, but for an office network it's not actually about what everyone uses. It's about having the capability to serve everyone, including niche users. If there's even a small portion of people on your network using those apps, or one drive, azure, accessing shared drives with permission versus web etc, they might be considered useful.

Occasionally an office will set up a single local computer for something rare, but it's often easier to build the network with groups in mind - accounts, retail, support, tech etc, and make sure each of those groups is being fully served. That's usually easier to do by building in more than what 'most people use'.

That said, windows as an environment for running niche industry software, and office are absolutely core, but so is MSFTs cloud services.

When it comes to 'services' however, it's not like anyone, not even google is making substantial earnings compared to core business for say onedrive access, or putting office on phones. The entire main of that, is to 'draw people into the ecosystem', rather than earnings per se. Which is why MSFT bundles a lot of it's stuff.

There's no large amount of earnings in app subscriptions on mobile. Even apps are outstripped on android - 100 million use the outlook app, 400 million use outlook.com, and only a tiny proportion of app users will be getting premium. The core mobile office apps are free, and you get free access beyond that from an office subscription - something people are rarely going to get simply for android access on larger devices.

Same story with skype. This argument that somehow android is going to bring in the beans, simply because microsoft sells software, ignores that android is a low margin software environment. It's all cheap. Only massive volume add up to anything. And microsoft is already bundling almost everything, so it's only really added value if you have a PC.

 

[Jamie Brahm]

I found the source. It's walking cat. He originally spotted the code for dual screens way back in the day, so I think his suspicions and finds are worth giving some plausibility.

https://mspoweruser.com/evidence-microsoft-may-be-working-to-port-the-uwp-runtime-to-android/

 

[Renoktation]

I found the source. It's walking cat. He originally spotted the code for dual screens way back in the day, so I think his suspicions and finds are worth giving some plausibility.

https://mspoweruser.com/evidence-microsoft-may-be-working-to-port-the-uwp-runtime-to-android/

I think things will become clear after Build 2020.

 

[Graham John Hockey]

Microsoft needs to hire you

 

[Ryujingt3]

Wouldn't virtualisation be a resource hog? The performance also may take a hit.

 

[nate0]

I don't think it will happen. As MS mentioned they worked with Google on the Duo, chances are they'd never allow anything like that which threatens their ecosystem.

This would have to run through Google Services if it does. So most likely Google will be all in because well, think about it. They would need a store app for it or service, means more clout for Google. It would bring even more users, crap ton of users for that matter...it sounds legit. But who knows. Proto hw means you have proto sw. Not all proto HW make the final cut and same for proto sw...the final version is yet tbd.

 

[Ryujingt3]

This would have to run through Google Services if it does. So most likely Google will be all in because well, think about it. They would need a store app for it or service, means more clout for Google. It would bring even more users, crap ton of users for that matter...it sounds legit. But who knows. Proto hw means you have proto sw. Not all proto HW make the final cut and same for proto sw...the final version is yet tbd.

You make a good point, but when have you known Google to be generous towards MS? Except when, as may be the case with the Duo, it's on Google's terms, not Microsoft's. 'Don't Be Evil', quite ironic really.

 

[nate0]

You make a good point, but when have you known Google to be generous towards MS? Except when, as may be the case with the Duo, it's on Google's terms, not Microsoft's. 'Don't Be Evil', quite ironic really.

Ya. That's why it could go either way. Yet anyone can strike a deal its just a matter of how.

 

[Ryujingt3]

Ya. That's why it could go either way. Yet anyone can strike a deal its just a matter of how.

I think both MS and Google have a lot riding on the device. So hopefully they can come to an agreement that benefits them both.

 

[DavidBS1989]

Nothing new about this? Probably we are going to have news of the device soon if it's true that is comming this year. Or, maybe, MS wants to keep the surprise until the last moment.

 

[nate0]

Nothing new about this? Probably we are going to have news of the device soon if it's true that is comming this year. Or, maybe, MS wants to keep the surprise until the last moment.

Well apparently W10x was a no show at ces... Might mean something or could just be them being secretive as usual.

 

[DavidBS1989]

Well apparently W10x was a no show at ces... Might mean something or could just be them being secretive as usual.

Why they don't create some hype? I hate this tendency of Microsoft to not tell nothing.