09-16-2019 06:32 AM
65 123
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  1. sd4f's Avatar
    Win10: I like the start menu (I set it as fullscreen)
    Wow, I'm not the only one. I actually much prefer the start screen on all my devices, desktops too. Really happy that it's an option, and actually has a lot of nice inclusions such as the sidebar with is customisable.
    10-13-2018 02:56 AM
  2. Old_Mil's Avatar
    I wouldn't say that the Windows tablet mode experience is awful. I still use my Acer W4-820 as my daily driver tablet and will continue to do so until it fails.

    I did turn custom scaring on at 150% to make things larger than they are in default mode.

    The on screen keyboard is substantially better than android's stock keyboard and slightly better than the one Apple provides with iOS. It is nearly on par with the old Blackberry/Swidtkey onscreen keyboard which was the best one ever developed.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    10-13-2018 06:32 AM
  3. gnirkatto's Avatar

    The on screen keyboard is substantially better than android's stock keyboard and slightly better than the one Apple provides with iOS.
    I assume/hope that you refer to eg word recognition/autocorrect rather than general usability. Because that sucks big time:

    KB showing instantly when tapping input field: iOS yes, W10Tablet:not always. WTF.
    KB overlaying input fields: iOS never, W10 often. A nightmare. Try eg Telegram.
    KB disappearing when Text input finished: iOS always, W10 sometimes not. Could live with that, if it was the only bug (calling these things bugs intentionally).

    This whole W10 tablet experience is such a mess, compared to iOS, with the keyboard being responsible for that to a high degree.

    I’ve been trying hard to get used to my Surface Go over the last 3 weeks or so, as a replacement for my iPad, because I would need/want the bigger freedom that W10 offers, but it just drives me crazy, how clumsy the experience is, compared to the iPad. Even a (supposedly) better word recognition does not help imho.

    Admittedly, with a type cover attached, the Surface (Go) experience is much better. But as a tablet - oh my god.
    Gayle Lynn likes this.
    10-13-2018 07:25 AM
  4. ochhanz's Avatar
    KB overlaying input fields: iOS never, W10 often. A nightmare. Try eg Telegram.
    , and did you notify Telegram about it? Cause that sounds like sites like Telegram are to lazy to fix their website for Windows touchscreen devices. I feel that while Microsoft definitely deserves some criticism, a big part of these faults also comes from developers, e.g. Steam to give an example that still has not added any touchscreen support to their app. I mean how difficult is that for a company that makes so much profit? And there has been a very long thread about it dating at least a year back, so they do know about it. Sames goes for Firefox, wonderful browser but selecting text is just so broken and has been for a while now.
    10-15-2018 02:13 PM
  5. gnirkatto's Avatar
    , and did you notify Telegram about it? Cause that sounds like sites like Telegram are to lazy to fix their website for Windows touchscreen devices. I feel that while Microsoft definitely deserves some criticism, a big part of these faults also comes from developers, e.g. Steam to give an example that still has not added any touchscreen support to their app. I mean how difficult is that for a company that makes so much profit? And there has been a very long thread about it dating at least a year back, so they do know about it. Sames goes for Firefox, wonderful browser but selecting text is just so broken and has been for a while now.
    Why would I notify Telegram about something that is clearly an opsys issue? Telegram works fine on all other supported platforms. On touchscreen devices, it is the responsibility of the operating system to push the active input field to a position above the onscreen keyboard, as soon as it appears.
    And, why does this problem occur so often on a W10 device, never under iOS? ALL apps being misdesigned on W10, ALL apps good on iOS? Nah.
    P.S. even during the Windows setup process, some (Microsoft-) input fields were overlaid by the on screen keyboard on my Go.
    10-15-2018 03:05 PM
  6. gnirkatto's Avatar
    P.P.S. re-reading your post, I found that you mentioned "websites".
    I did not speak about websites (although this also happens there). I spoke about apps and the W10 keyboard overlaying input fields. Telegram being one of them.
    10-15-2018 03:12 PM
  7. ochhanz's Avatar
    Why would I notify Telegram about something that is clearly an opsys issue? Telegram works fine on all other supported platforms. On touchscreen devices, it is the responsibility of the operating system to push the active input field to a position above the onscreen keyboard, as soon as it appears.
    And, why does this problem occur so often on a W10 device, never under iOS? ALL apps being misdesigned on W10, ALL apps good on iOS? Nah.
    P.S. even during the Windows setup process, some (Microsoft-) input fields were overlaid by the on screen keyboard on my Go.
    , fair enough, OSK is indeed wonky sometimes. I was a bit to hasty to lay the blame on telegram.
    gnirkatto likes this.
    10-16-2018 06:35 AM
  8. stodge's Avatar
    My major grips about Windows 10 in tablet mode is the on-screen keyboard.

    a) It often never shows up when I enter an input field. Often forcing me to click back and forth (if there are multiple) fields trying to cox is out. Usually, I give up and press the keyboard icon on the task bar.

    b) Even when the keyboard comes up... it often hides the input field -- or fields around it. In Edge, I find myself closing the keyboard, zooming and panning, and then hoping I can open it in some way it won't obscure what I'm doing. Or detaching the keyboard and moving it elsewhere.

    c) The keyboard often don't go away. Meaning even after you type in something, you can't see the OK button anymore and there is no way (other than the icon) to get rid of it.

    d) Lots of apps (even UWP) force a ton of issues with the keyboard. Edge repeatedly zooms and unzooms as fields are selected, others has UI issues once the keyboard is taking up 1/3 of the screen -- such as scroll bars in large text fields not being visible and the scroll position jumping around. Many force you to switch to touch to get to other tabs, buttons, show submit error messages under the keyboard, etc.

    e) Non-UWP are often hopeless. Entering values in tablets, editable combo-boxes, edit areas near the bottom or right of the screen, etc.

    What is more troubling is that these existing in Windows 8 and were never fixed. I use my wife's iPad and I've never had an issue entering anything into any field.
    This!! This was the reason I didn't buy a Surface a year ago. I played with the Go today in the store and it was slightly improved but this still happened far too often.
    12-31-2018 03:38 PM
  9. darrell reimer's Avatar
    This!! This was the reason I didn't buy a Surface a year ago. I played with the Go today in the store and it was slightly improved but this still happened far too often.
    I'm tryin out a Surface Go. Even when switching to Tablet Mode, this machine is not built for use as a tablet. Actually, I shouldn't say the 'machine', it's the Windows 10 OS. Windows 8/8.1 was such an awesome tablet experience; totally built for touch. Not so for Windows 10. Here's a sad example
    I was holidaying 3 time zones away from home; I wanted to watch my local sports team's evening game, but it was blacked-out where I was staying, so I pulled out my S8+, used my Optik TV app, and found the game. (too bad we lost). I tried to do the same thing with my new Go, but NO! First: there is no App in the Windows Store (typical; not surprising), so I tried watching via a web brower (Chrome and Edge). This was a disaster. I couldn't scroll through the menu to actually get to the channel I wanted to watch. I spent a few minutes trying everything, and nothing worked; it was a total nightmare. I ended up just going back to my phone and watching it there...my new Go was a no go...for watching my sports...with no proper App in the Windows store, this was just another fail highlighting the fact that the 'App gap' between Windows and Android/iOS affects more than just phones. You don't get the same touch experience using web page versions of the real apps...
    01-06-2019 11:52 PM
  10. Timbre70's Avatar
    Welcome to Windows 😄
    01-07-2019 03:16 AM
  11. Yue Ling's Avatar
    Android: lack of privacy cause of Google's bloatware, lack of updates on the long term and sometimes slow security updates and freemium **** apps clouding everything. Also feels restricted.
    Why are you paranoid? Almost every big tech companies nowadays tracking you. Would you avoid big tech companies and use DuckDuckGo instead?
    06-16-2019 05:34 AM
  12. wolfpack219's Avatar
    I like it.
    09-04-2019 01:36 AM
  13. wolfpack219's Avatar
    I hate win 10. I shouldn't have to hack an os to make it work. Between bloatware and forced updates to me it'vs useless out of the box. I have a plethora of freeware I use to debloat and nuke updates along with registry tweaks. Updates break more than they fix. I'm finished as far as any new machines. No money anyway. I shouldn't have to do all of this crap just to make it marginally acceptable.

    IOS is for rich kids. Never had one. Fixed income and poor.

    Android is a different story... I can customize the hell out of it and I root my devices so I can debloat and install adblockers. On Android I never see an ad in Chrome or in my apps. Only drawback is fugly apps that are not tablet optimized.
    Sounds like you would enjoy a Chromebook.
    09-04-2019 01:36 AM
  14. ochhanz's Avatar
    Sounds like you would enjoy a Chromebook.
    , it is kindy ironic/funny though that he hates w10 for bloatware and 'tweaks' than loves android because 'tweaks' and while it has lots of bloatware.

    Why are you paranoid? Almost every big tech companies nowadays tracking you. Would you avoid big tech companies and use DuckDuckGo instead?
    , it is not paranoid if it is true? Besides there is a difference between google sucking your data for google ads and apple/ms for diagnostic/bugs (is much easier to turn off on windows too). Duckduckgo I like more than google anyway functionality wise.
    09-04-2019 09:03 AM
  15. E90 Commie's Avatar
    My 2 cents:

    I use my Surface Go as my primary device including tablet in bed. Absolutely excellent but I have a couple of principles, which I apply to all my devices:

    1. No proprietary media services, which require a proprietary client are allowed (i.e. no Netflix, Spotify, whatever)
    2. Only standard format files (i.e. MP3, MP4, PDF and so on) are allowed

    I have no issues with controlling my Go using my fingers and my major "tablet" use cases are browsing, reading and media consumption, which works great. I use Edge/Chromium Dev as my primary browser, supplanted by Brave and Chromium (Chrome is a banned browser here, I don't touch it). No problems navigating with my fingers or typing addresses using the on-screen keyboard. I like the touch keyboard even if I prefer physical keys (I don't like to type longer texts than a few sentences on a touch keyboard).

    Media playback using Kodi is great and the interface is very easy to manage using fingers (I have the exact same setup on all my devices including Android TV boxes).

    Navigating Windows itself is no problems since I am used to those kind of interfaces and I very much prefer it over Android and iOS (the only "tablet interface" I really like is the "Hildon" created by Nokia and used in the 7710 and later the 770, N800, N810 and N900). I was happy with Windows Mobile and running full desktop mode without having the Type Cover simply works.

    Reading books works great with Calibre and I very much prefer it over MoonReader on Android, which itself is great. It's just that Calibre is even better.

    I also use PWAs and with the latest Chromium builds and "Edgium" et al, they work well (YouTube PWA, AirBnB PWA etc).

    The idea of using proprietary media apps (Netflix, Optik TV et al) is just alien to me, too much issues, especially on Android when they complain about system configuration (root....) and so on. Standardized file formats, which I use just work. No problems, they can be played back with any player on any device.

    I had an iPad once upon a time and no, I wouldn't trade my Go even if they offered me a free iPad Pro. Those things I do doesn't work on iOS and starting to circumvent different limitations doesn't bring me any excitement. My Go does everything and it run everything I want including Office, the Adobe CS6 suite, Calibre, Kodi, media tools and messaging services including Google Voice (my primary "carrier").

    So I am very happy with my Go as a computer AND tablet. It just works with everything I throw at it. I have an Android device on the side as a pure wallet (i.e. paying using Google Pay, transit passes and that kind of stuff).

    I don't have any of those traditional "conceptions" about a "tablet" - i.e. that it must have some special OS or some special "apps". A tablet is just a physical form factor and can run any system. There is a space in the market for "consumption tablets" (iPad, Android tablets) and "tablet computers" (Surface series, 2-in-1s running desktop systems). There are some overlap between them nowadays but it's still distinct categories.

    I have been using the Go for around six months now and I couldn't be happier. What I would like to see is an ARM (8cx) version. Further refinements of touch interface parts are welcome but I would prefer them to be more along the lines of Hildon (Maemo OS 2008) rather than Android or iOS. They could also bring back the gadgets.

    PWA is the obvious route for "service apps" (i.e. apps that are online based). There's absolutely no reason to have a 200 MB "app" for such a service when you can have a 300 KB PWA.

    The constant "app gap" arguments are nostalgia I must say. They remind me of all those arguments against the Mac back in the days when the order of the day was: "There's no applications for Mac!"

    If the major argument against a device is something along the lines of "They don't have a client for [Proprietary Media Service]!" my reply is: "That's great because it means that we have a pure, unmolested DRM free device, supporting standard media formats!"

    It was fun to read the reviews of the Huawei MediaPad M5: "It doesn't support HD video". OK, what does it mean? Does it mean no support for 1080p? No it doesn't. It does play those videos well. "HD video" in 2018/2019 meant "Amazon Prime Video" and "Netflix"... sigh. So the tablet should be bashed because of non-standardized, proprietary services?

    So "app gap" won't ever be an argument I would use against a device, especially not today when there's emulation or VMs if your life depends on "app X".
    09-16-2019 06:32 AM
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