Audio quality and USB DACs. Surface Buying Experience

[azcruz]

I realize this is off topic for this thread and I do not want to hijack it but here I go anyway. I have put a sizable music library on my desktop compiled with dbpoweramp. The library is all lossless flac and I access it with xbmc. Xbmc is not available for WinRT and the Surface doesn't have the storage to handle my library anyway. So could I expect proper sound from a Surface RT if I was using remote desktop to access my music library?

My main media storage is Synology NAS where my music files are kept. MediaMonkey finds them via uPNP/DLNA. I have no issues with playback of FLAC files using MediaMonkey over Wi-Fi via my Western Digital N900 Central.

MediaMonkey also finds music files using Open File->Network

 

[mprebich]

Surface Pro (original):

I finally got around to connecting my Surface Pro to a vintage Audio Alchemy DAC and preamp that I pulled out of my closet. I'm using a Halide Design USB Bridge, which converts the USB to coaxial RCA (as my "vintage" DAC does not have a USB input).

This worked wonderfully. Even though it is only 16/44.1, the AA DAC still sounds great.

I will play around some more this coming weekend, and swap out the AA dac for a Perpetual Tech DAC, which processes 24/96. Should be a fun weekend! : ) I previously tried the Surface (inplace of my HTPC) running the USB through Halide directly into my Onkyo HT setup, that works wonderfully and provides for 24/192.

Excellent that the Surface (both RT and Pro) handle USB digital out, but as mentioned above, we would have expected them to, as Windows and USB has "always" done that.

Now, when do we get this functionality for our Windows Phones???? Come on Microsoft!

I'm eyeing ALO Audio's "International" DAC/headamp. Anyone with experiencing trying this with a Surface and one of the other phones OSs?


HiFidelity4all - Enjoy the music!

 

[calfee20]

My main media storage is Synology NAS where my music files are kept. MediaMonkey finds them via uPNP/DLNA. I have no issues with playback of FLAC files using MediaMonkey over Wi-Fi via my Western Digital N900 Central.

MediaMonkey also finds music files using Open File->Network

I had thought of building a NAS and now your comment has gotme thinking about one again. I have a new micro-atx board Micro-center gave me for buying an i5 cpu a few months ago. I have most everything I need except a couple of hard-drives. Maybe this winter.

 

[Blacklac]

I'm confused why you thought digital output to a DAC your familiar with wouldn't work. Lol. Digital output is all the same.

And to those mentioning Wolfson DAC's, that doesn't mean much these days. They offer very low end DAC's too. Not saying the Surface units don't sound good, just don't judge them off the name Wolfson.

 

[mister2d]

I'm confused why you thought digital output to a DAC your familiar with wouldn't work. Lol. Digital output is all the same.

And to those mentioning Wolfson DAC's, that doesn't mean much these days. They offer very low end DAC's too. Not saying the Surface units don't sound good, just don't judge them off the name Wolfson.

I thought I explained that well. Obviously not.

My point was that I wasn't going to take it for granted that all my digital equipment would work and I just blindly drop $500 on a device. Not my style. I verify and test first when I can.

Here's an example of why you just can't think things work out of the box.

Try plugging that DAC into a Nexus tablet. Yeah doesn't work. Sure it's running a Linux kernel and it SHOULD work since it works with a few distros I tested out of the box.

What you have to end up doing (as I did on my gen 1 Nexus 7) is root the device, meaning erasing everything you customized. Then find a custom ROM that supports USB on the go and USB audio kernel mod loading. Ahh... now my FiiO DAC works but with a caveat. You have to plug it into the USB port first before you turn on the tablet. Royal pain.

So, no I will not just assume that it works on a new ARM based Windows that no one has touched. Understand now? Hopefully it's crystal clear. After all my post on this was over a year ago!

 

[mprebich]

Any idea why the Lumias (my 920) can't output digital audio? Is it the WP8 that is not enablnig this funcvtionality, as you mention flashing a capable ROM above?

I find it hard to believe that the hardware can't do this. So it is either Nokia's firmware, or MS's WP8, right?

Any technical details would be great. Thanks!

 

[azcruz]

Any idea why the Lumias (my 920) can't output digital audio? Is it the WP8 that is not enablnig this funcvtionality, as you mention flashing a capable ROM above?

I find it hard to believe that the hardware can't do this. So it is either Nokia's firmware, or MS's WP8, right?

Any technical details would be great. Thanks!

1. You're in the Surface section.
2. There is no digital out for the 920.

 

[mprebich]

@azcruz yes, thanks. He mentioned flashing his Andriod tablet to get it to work. Thought he might have knowledge on how this works on smartphones also.

I've already previously posted under other forum.

 

[azcruz]

You wouldn't happen to be Mark Prebich, or you are?

 

[mister2d]

Any idea why the Lumias (my 920) can't output digital audio? Is it the WP8 that is not enablnig this funcvtionality, as you mention flashing a capable ROM above?

I find it hard to believe that the hardware can't do this. So it is either Nokia's firmware, or MS's WP8, right?

Any technical details would be great. Thanks!

Well, first it's something that Nokia would have to engineer in. The iPod/iPhone/iPad all leverage the same type of tech that works with a myriad of accessories that's licensed out.

Nokia could have done something purely digital out but can you really think there's a market for that on a mass market phone? Apple is doing it but they did it right and got companies to buy into it to license their tech and make accessories.

I really want something done about this because Bluetooth streaming is OK but it doesn't have the dynamic range with the Bluetooth audio codec used (SBC). If they used AAC as the audio codec for Bluetooth (that is an option, but no one seems to use it outside Sony), then it wouldn't be much of a problem. But it seems we're all stuck with SBC.

There needs to be a universal standard for USB audio in everything.

 

[Blacklac]

I thought I explained that well. Obviously not.

My point was that I wasn't going to take it for granted that all my digital equipment would work and I just blindly drop $500 on a device. Not my style. I verify and test first when I can.

Here's an example of why you just can't think things work out of the box.

Try plugging that DAC into a Nexus tablet. Yeah doesn't work. Sure it's running a Linux kernel and it SHOULD work since it works with a few distros I tested out of the box.

What you have to end up doing (as I did on my gen 1 Nexus 7) is root the device, meaning erasing everything you customized. Then find a custom ROM that supports USB on the go and USB audio kernel mod loading. Ahh... now my FiiO DAC works but with a caveat. You have to plug it into the USB port first before you turn on the tablet. Royal pain.

So, no I will not just assume that it works on a new ARM based Windows that no one has touched. Understand now? Hopefully it's crystal clear. After all my post on this was over a year ago!

I see. I had no idea about the Android issue.

 

[mprebich]

Yes. Hi, Arnold. Nagging people on many sites I see : )

 

[azcruz]

Glad to hear from you

Sorry for the OT.

Back to topic-

I actually wanted to buy the Schiit Modi and use it on my Surface.

 

[mister2d]

Glad to hear from you

Sorry for the OT.

Back to topic-

I actually wanted to buy the Schiit Modi and use it on my Surface.

Are you sure it will work?

 

[azcruz]

Definitely

 

[azcruz]

I didn't proceed with my purchase of Schiit because they won't make me a US plug for 220V unit.

I am now testing Hegel's SUPER and it's working perfectly well with my Surface.

 

[calfee20]

I didn't proceed with my purchase of Schiit because they won't make me a US plug for 220V unit.

I am now testing Hegel's SUPER and it's working perfectly well with my Surface.

Wow you guys are hardcore! Hegel SUPER Headphone Amplifier/USB DAC -ShopListenUp I am nearly 65 and the other day I saw a makeshift hearing test on youtube. I can't even hear 8000 hertz. I still enjoy music though especially with decent headphones.

 

[azcruz]

It is a nice little amp, quite lacks flexibility, but it was designed for plug-and-play.

 

[mprebich]

Glad to hear from you

Sorry for the OT.

Back to topic-

I actually wanted to buy the Schiit Modi and use it on my Surface.

Arnold,

I picked up a Stello U2 off Audiogon to use with my Surface. Why the U2 @ 24/96, when the U3 does 24/192? The U2 has i2s output that is compatible with my Perpetual Technologies DAC (24/96, with Monolithic Power Plant and a set of RAL upgrade cables).

I was quite impressed with the sound running into my Verastarr 6550 integrated amp and the Revels. Yep, I still have the Revels.

However, not good enough to make me want to get rid of my turntable just yet.

(Sorry, will continue this on the audio forums : )

 

[azcruz]

Mark, the U2 is nice! And cheaper than the Hegel.

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