[runamuck83]

Microsoft doesn't have the greatest track record with hardware, but one area where they've achieved success is with Xbox. When Xbox was introduced, PlayStation dominated the market. The initial reviews for Xbox were: "Meh, it's pretty and the graphics are good - but there are too few games and the controller is huge!" Microsoft didn't have a lot of fans for the Xbox originally, but they had the guts to make sure the product would be a success. Today, Xbox 360 is the number one gaming console.

Today, the iPad is the "PlayStation" of tablets, and Surface is the Xbox.

I bought that first Xbox the day it came out. All I had to play was Halo and Abe's Odd World for 3 months but I was happy and I loved t.

now I'm the proud owner of a Surface tablet and my feelings are the same. I love this tablet - but my question is whether or not Microsoft is committed to making it a success a la Xbox...

[masterchief1984]

I think its going all the way. I truly believe that Microsoft is going to back all there hardware and OS stronger than ever.

[HeyCori]

I think a bloat-free, well designed, marque tablet is exactly what Microsoft needs. However, they decided to sell it in a handful of MS stores and online. Which is probably good because MS won't cannibalize sales from other OEMs, but that pretty much guarantees that the Surface is going to be a financial failure. And I think MS knew this. I think Surface is a message to OEMs that if you let us down we will march over you.

[mlm1950]

It's likely already a success.

Will it take over iPad? Possibly.

[Gken]

They can't do as hard as they would like to because it would totally screw over OEMs along with the surface pro tablet. It just shows you how lazy OEMs have gotten in the R&D departments, just making the same crap over and over. I wish Microsoft would do what Apple does and screw the OEMs completely, so that there can be some real competition. Realistically what are OEMs gonna do move to Linux?

[NickA]

They can't do as hard as they would like to because it would totally screw over OEMs along with the surface pro tablet. It just shows you how lazy OEMs have gotten in the R&D departments, just making the same crap over and over. I wish Microsoft would do what Apple does and screw the OEMs completely, so that there can be some real competition. Realistically what are OEMs gonna do move to Linux?

I agree with you as well. At what point does your business suffer because you want to continue good relationships with OEM's. And if the Surface was a message to OEM's, then didn't listen. I'm not owning another plastic device of any kind anymore. After a few Samsung phones and tablets, I'm done. I have the Lumia 920 now and the build quality is awesome.

Apple is obviously successful, and I'm not sure why Microsoft doesn't just copy their business model. There are rumors again of a Microsoft phone, so maybe they are heading in that direction.

[mlm1950]

I agree with you as well. At what point does your business suffer because you want to continue good relationships with OEM's. And if the Surface was a message to OEM's, then didn't listen. I'm not owning another plastic device of any kind anymore. After a few Samsung phones and tablets, I'm done. I have the Lumia 920 now and the build quality is awesome.

Apple is obviously successful, and I'm not sure why Microsoft doesn't just copy their business model. There are rumors again of a Microsoft phone, so maybe they are heading in that direction.

The Lumia 920 is plastic.

[Reflexx]

Surface is there to show what a Windows RT device should be. It sets the bar for OEMs. As long as it does that, it's a success.

MS doesn't need huge Surface sales. If that was their intention, you'd see it at Best Buy and Amazon. Surface exists right now to help Windows become a success.

[Nightshde]

I'm loving my Surface, I had no intent in getting one but my parents sent me one for my bday last week and I love this thing. I love just being able to carry this all over the apartment and not have to worry about constantly having to plug it in like with my laptop. Though I am still waiting on some apps I would like to see like one for IMDB and Amazon video.

[rantanamo]

There are articles this morning about the sales being a flop. If that's true, I blame Microsoft and Microsoft alone. The biggest problem, IMO was distribution with WP7, not Apple Fanboys or Fandroids. I've watched many a family member and co-worker blindly pick up an Android phone because its free on contract, compared to the rare, by the phone at full price or because its a GS3. Most get them because they are available. Fast forward to the Surface, and we have the WP7 problem. You see this great Surface commercial, and it looks cool. Problem........................where is it? Microsoft Store and Online Store. Hint, most people buy things at sites like NewEgg or Amazon. Most people go to Brick and Mortars like Fry's or Best Buy to see things in action. Not only have I never seen the Surface in person(nearest store is about 40 miles from me, deep in the suburbs of Dallas), but I've rarely even seen more than 1 model of Windows 8 or RT tablet. Seriously, who runs this part of Microsoft, because they are simply failing again. Zune, WP7, now Surface. And also, stop trying to be Apple and make huge profit margin on every device. You aren't cool enough to the general public. Lower the price to go against the Galaxy Nexus. Do NOT make this same mistake with the Surface Pro or you will have wasted several years for your company.

Rant over

[NickA]

Surface is there to show what a Windows RT device should be. It sets the bar for OEMs. As long as it does that, it's a success.

MS doesn't need huge Surface sales. If that was their intention, you'd see it at Best Buy and Amazon. Surface exists right now to help Windows become a success.

I'm not buying this. I've read so many blogs that say the the Surface RT is a "demo" to OEM's of what a tablet should be. Pretty expensive demo if that's the case. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it's unheard of to create and market a product, and it's only intent is for it to be an example. Doesn't make sense.

There are articles this morning about the sales being a flop. If that's true, I blame Microsoft and Microsoft alone. The biggest problem, IMO was distribution with WP7, not Apple Fanboys or Fandroids. I've watched many a family member and co-worker blindly pick up an Android phone because its free on contract, compared to the rare, by the phone at full price or because its a GS3. Most get them because they are available. Fast forward to the Surface, and we have the WP7 problem. You see this great Surface commercial, and it looks cool. Problem........................where is it? Microsoft Store and Online Store. Hint, most people buy things at sites like NewEgg or Amazon. Most people go to Brick and Mortars like Fry's or Best Buy to see things in action. Not only have I never seen the Surface in person(nearest store is about 40 miles from me, deep in the suburbs of Dallas), but I've rarely even seen more than 1 model of Windows 8 or RT tablet. Seriously, who runs this part of Microsoft, because they are simply failing again. Zune, WP7, now Surface. And also, stop trying to be Apple and make huge profit margin on every device. You aren't cool enough to the general public. Lower the price to go against the Galaxy Nexus. Do NOT make this same mistake with the Surface Pro or you will have wasted several years for your company.

Rant over

This is what I agree with as well. Why advertise the thing so much and not make it readily available to everyone? If I'm a "normal" user, I'd see the commercial, and then wonder where I could at least look/touch one.

[rebornempowered]

I agree with you as well. At what point does your business suffer because you want to continue good relationships with OEM's. And if the Surface was a message to OEM's, then didn't listen. I'm not owning another plastic device of any kind anymore. After a few Samsung phones and tablets, I'm done. I have the Lumia 920 now and the build quality is awesome.

Apple is obviously successful, and I'm not sure why Microsoft doesn't just copy their business model. There are rumors again of a Microsoft phone, so maybe they are heading in that direction.

You make a very good point. Microsoft set the standard with Surface and even Asus (who I love as a manufacturer) didn't even come close with build quality and functionality. I don't know that it is time for Microsoft to kick all OEM's to the curb but maybe if Windows RT continues they need to be the only manufacturer that uses it.

[Gken]

Well if you look at it this way, just the fact that Microsoft even considered making their own products was a huge step away from old Microsoft. So yes it seems to have the guts to make it on their own, once the surface pro and surface phone come out...watch out for a surface laptop? I can only dream.

[shn'g]

good discussion. I agree with a lot of the points but I think that even though the business strategy sucks I think they did it like this on purpose. I don't know their reasons but I see other businesses doing the same thing. Take the Nexus 7 for example. July the product was open to online ordering, and maybe a very small amount of retailers had it... and just a month ago or so I could finally see the device and touch it in store. I think you will see this happen with Surface as well. I think possibly in a couple of months we could see it showing up in stores.

I could be wrong to ... lol

[chuks22]

Correction, surface is perfect. What's not is windows RT. Guys start getting this right, cos its becoming misleading for members trying to read facts before buying.

POST should read, does MS have the guts to make Windows RT a success?


EDIT: and people crying for apps when they have a full blown IE, what do i need a facebook app for when i can browse the .com,
i just need a torrent app, and a good media player and i wont visit the store again. All the apps i need are on my mobile.

[stephen_az]

There are articles this morning about the sales being a flop. If that's true, I blame Microsoft and Microsoft alone. The biggest problem, IMO was distribution with WP7, not Apple Fanboys or Fandroids. I've watched many a family member and co-worker blindly pick up an Android phone because its free on contract, compared to the rare, by the phone at full price or because its a GS3. Most get them because they are available. Fast forward to the Surface, and we have the WP7 problem. You see this great Surface commercial, and it looks cool. Problem........................where is it? Microsoft Store and Online Store. Hint, most people buy things at sites like NewEgg or Amazon. Most people go to Brick and Mortars like Fry's or Best Buy to see things in action. Not only have I never seen the Surface in person(nearest store is about 40 miles from me, deep in the suburbs of Dallas), but I've rarely even seen more than 1 model of Windows 8 or RT tablet. Seriously, who runs this part of Microsoft, because they are simply failing again. Zune, WP7, now Surface. And also, stop trying to be Apple and make huge profit margin on every device. You aren't cool enough to the general public. Lower the price to go against the Galaxy Nexus. Do NOT make this same mistake with the Surface Pro or you will have wasted several years for your company.

Rant over

The same "articles" that make claims about Surface RT sales said that Microsoft was going to "slash prices" on Surface Pro and rush it to the market in December. How did that work out? For that matter some of the same people claimed Windows 8 was not selling at all until the started to come out. Now they have gone remarkably silent on the subject. The same crowd has the same unnamed sources - if people believe them they should just avoid the middleman and buy direct from Apple and Google. This would have to be the first time a company has sold upwards of 2 million of a tech product in a quarter with virtually no retail store presence and have someone label it a failure. I would hope people do understand that if Microsoft is shipping that number of orders before the end of the quarter, that actually represents sales. It does not represent shipments to retailers since the retailers who happen to be Microsoft owned stores. Apple and Google numbers are always inflated by the number shipped to retailers which are counted as sales as soon as they ship since the retailer is buying that stock.

BTW, for a product that isn't selling, it certainly pulls a premium (Apple level) price on ebay and Amazon; the numerous sample units in the local Scottsdale store always seem to have a crowd; and there always seem to be a few people at the register buying. Yes, I also do see Surface RTs in the wild here. They are obviously not as common as iPads and Kindles but they are otherwise just about as common as any other Android tablet. Not bad for a product that has been out for less than two months. FWIW, Microsoft is also never going to lower the price dramatically for Surface RT or Surface Pro to compete with the little plastic toys sold by Google. Google takes a per unit loss on every Nexus tablet sold and is competing with Amazon's segment of the market. The goal with Surface is to open a market segment, not saturate the low end market. If Google strings together a couple more quarters like the current one and they might not be taking that approach for much longer either.

[garak0410]

While I don't believe Surface needs a gillion apps to be successful, the Surface does lack some "killer" apps...the "must have" app to get people to come over.

[garak0410]

Correction, surface is perfect. What's not is windows RT. Guys start getting this right, cos its becoming misleading for members trying to read facts before buying.

POST should read, does MS have the guts to make Windows RT a success?


EDIT: and people crying for apps when they have a full blown IE, what do i need a facebook app for when i can browse the .com,
i just need a torrent app, and a good media player and i wont visit the store again. All the apps i need are on my mobile.

Exactly...Windows RT. I know it's been a month but I am starting to have mild concerns about RT and development of good software for it.

[Captain_J]

^^ I have the same concern. Windows RT has a very beta feel to it.

[NickA]

Exactly...Windows RT. I know it's been a month but I am starting to have mild concerns about RT and development of good software for it.

^^ I have the same concern. Windows RT has a very beta feel to it.

I have to disagree that RT feels beta, or that there are concerns with it. But it may depends on each particular user. I use mine mostly on the weekends when I'm away from my office. I use mainly Word, PowerPoint and RDP into a couple of me servers to do some SQL maintenance. Also web browsing and e-mail. It works great.

I know if you are new to Windows 8 then the RT may feel a little different. I'm not a fan of Windows on my desktop/laptop, but really don't mind it on the Surface RT.

[garak0410]

^^ I have the same concern. Windows RT has a very beta feel to it.

And don't get me wrong...I love the Surface and have no real problem with the concept of Windows RT. I just have this feeling about it being abandoned before it begins.

[Engr_Princess]

I think Microsoft made a mistake even bringing out an RT version of the surface. They should have concentrated on the pro version: improve battery life, more surface color options, more screen angle placement options and much more. This would have allowed for a black Friday and holiday season sale of the pro and would have been a huge hit for Microsoft. With the way the tablet market is right now, I don't think any tablet can beat apple at its game. The next best thing is to give the public something new...the next best thing...which is a laptop that can also double as a tablet and that to me is Microsoft's saving grace. I see the RT not gaining any traction like other tablets before it that tried to compete in apple's price range. If Microsoft was unwilling to bring down the RT price significantly (basically at build price like the kindle and nexus tab) then they stand no chance against the iPad. Also, now there are 3 windows platforms to designs apps for, yes I know it is now easier to port apps between the three, but it's just too much for an operating system that is in fourth place right now. They should have stuck with windows phone and windows 8 and kept it simple. On the other hand I think and hope the pro will be a huge hit, but it needs to be priced aggressively especially when it has a mediocre battery life, doesn't include a touch pad and no office.

I just switched from an iPhone to my 920(I am on my 4th unit due to battery issues lol) and I love it and really would love to see Microsoft and Nokia succeed, esp against apple so hopefully they are making the right business choices.

[garak0410]

I think Microsoft made a mistake even bringing out an RT version of the surface. They should have concentrated on the pro version: improve battery life, more surface color options, more screen angle placement options and much more. This would have allowed for a black Friday and holiday season sale of the pro and would have been a huge hit for Microsoft. With the way the tablet market is right now, I don't think any tablet can beat apple at its game. The next best thing is to give the public something new...the next best thing...which is a laptop that can also double as a tablet and that to me is Microsoft's saving grace. I see the RT not gaining any traction like other tablets before it that tried to compete in apple's price range. If Microsoft was unwilling to bring down the RT price significantly (basically at build price like the kindle and nexus tab) then they stand no chance against the iPad. Also, now there are 3 windows platforms to designs apps for, yes I know it is now easier to port apps between the three, but it's just too much for an operating system that is in fourth place right now. They should have stuck with windows phone and windows 8 and kept it simple. On the other hand I think and hope the pro will be a huge hit, but it needs to be priced aggressively especially when it has a mediocre battery life, doesn't include a touch pad and no office.

I just switched from an iPhone to my 920(I am on my 4th unit due to battery issues lol) and I love it and really would love to see Microsoft and Nokia succeed, esp against apple so hopefully they are making the right business choices.

For RT to succeed, it needs a price cut.

Side note - my 920 has had awesome battery life but I am starting to get that "creek:" noise if you apply any pressure to the top...if that doesn't lead to problems, I want to hold onto this one due to the great batter life.

[vdek]

The next generation Windows RT devices are going to be amazing. Once Wayne comes out(Tegra 4), GPU performance will be improved greatly and will be on par if not better than what Apple is currently offering! Gaming is really one of the biggest uses for Tablets believe it or not, and Microsoft has the advantage of having their own exclusives to push the Surface which Apple does not. Problem is though that the Tegra3 isn't as powerful as the equivalent Apple Hardware. While CPU performance is comparable, GPU performance is weak compared to the competition. However it's still fully capable in it's own right, and hopefully Microsoft will bring over some real exclusives like Halo and do it right at the same time. I like the current Surface and it has a lot of potential, I think MS will do it right. They have a lot to lose if they don't considering mobile devices are the biggest growth market for the coming decade.

[garak0410]

The next generation Windows RT devices are going to be amazing. Once Wayne comes out(Tegra 4), GPU performance will be improved greatly and will be on par if not better than what Apple is currently offering! Gaming is really one of the biggest uses for Tablets believe it or not, and Microsoft has the advantage of having their own exclusives to push the Surface which Apple does not. Problem is though that the Tegra3 isn't as powerful as the equivalent Apple Hardware. While CPU performance is comparable, GPU performance is weak compared to the competition. However it's still fully capable in it's own right, and hopefully Microsoft will bring over some real exclusives like Halo and do it right at the same time. I like the current Surface and it has a lot of potential, I think MS will do it right. They have a lot to lose if they don't considering mobile devices are the biggest growth market for the coming decade.

Yeah, it's only been a month and I am patient but I am finding I am using the Surface less here lately. I guess because my Lumia 920 is such a joy to use! :)

Gaming...yeah, it would be great to play some of my favorites (Portal Series, the GOG.COM games, my Amiga and C64 Emulators.) but I'll wait to see what the future holds.