Why I think the media is wrong: RT is the future, desktop will disappear, eventually

[Cleavitt76]

I don't think there's ever been a clearer case for differentiating Windows Pro versus Windows Home.

I don't follow your logic. I'm talking about MS working towards getting rid of certain awkward bits of desktop left in Windows RT which is meant to be a touch only version of Windows that runs on very lightweight hardware to compete against iOS and Android. You somehow use that as an argument that the desktop should also be removed from a full version of Windows. I don't see any direct connection between the two.

Active Directory and Desktop are pro; Home becomes Modern interface Only with power users encouraged to stick with Pro.

Based on what? Your just making stuff up now. You can state your random guesses as if they are facts, but that doesn't make them correct. Even if your based-on-nothing guesses were correct, the renaming of products is just marketing BS anyway. My point (which is based on the topic of this thread) is that the desktop multi-window UI isn't going away just because touch apps are hot right now. It doesn't matter if they shuffle the product names around (which would serve no purpose but to confuse customers), the desktop will still be there in some consumer targeted version of Windows. The idea that a multi-window UI is somehow a "pro" or "business" feature is just silly. Every major general purpose OS for consumers has a "desktop" interface. If MS threw that out in favor of Modern UI only they would relegate their entire product line to the level of a cool but unnecessary toy like the iPad and at the same time abandon most of their customer base. If there is one thing that MS could do to ruin their company it would be to get rid of the Windows Desktop on all consumer level products.

 

[theta_orionis]

Microsoft News | Windows File Manager For Modern UI Revealed In Leaked Blue Build

And now the Modern File Manager emerges with the leaked Blue build.

Thanks for the link and for initiating a thought provoking thread, ninjaap. Clearly there are some visionary and revolutionary ideas afoot at MSFT. Whilst Samsung and Apple quibble about smartphone dominance, MSFT seems to be considering the "whole" digital lifestyle. RT, Metro UI, or Modern UI are a reflection of that and moving away from "desktop" seems, IMHO, a step toward that end.

Best of luck in the NFC West btw... and I wouldn't mind another "Harbowl" next year!:wink:

 

[ninjaap]

Well at least we got some acknowledging that it will EVENTUALLY get removed and replaced, which was what I stated in the first place. Just not in agreement on when that is actually going to happen. I started this thread in response to earlier arguments from the media and others that Windows RT served no purpose since the release of Windows 8 Pro on both Atom and I-processors and will eventually be canned by MS. My counter argument was that in actuality, quite the opposite may happen. Modern is the new OS MS is working on and can conceivably take over. But what do I know. I don't have the credentials of a developer, but I am psychic and can see the future...

 

[ninjaap]

Thanks for the link and for initiating a thought provoking thread, ninjaap. Clearly there are some visionary and revolutionary ideas afoot at MSFT. Whilst Samsung and Apple quibble about smartphone dominance, MSFT seems to be considering the "whole" digital lifestyle. RT, Metro UI, or Modern UI are a reflection of that and moving away from "desktop" seems, IMHO, a step toward that end.

Best of luck in the NFC West btw... and I wouldn't mind another "Harbowl" next year!:wink:

I think MS has an exciting future planned for us. And I m really curious to see how this OS will move forward in ways only YouTube concept videos can show us at the moment.


Thanks! I hope so to! Although, I think its a Manning vs Manning Superbowl next year. I created a fun thread about the NFL conspiracy theory in the Off Topic forum, a while back, right after we lost. But if you're a Revens fan you may not want to read that thread. I may have said something nasty, I forget.

 

[NickA]

I think MS has an exciting future planned for us. And I m really curious to see how this OS will move forward in ways only YouTube concept videos can show us at the moment

I keep hearing that RT is the future, and I'm not hearing why. I do keep hearing how committed Microsoft is to it, and how they have big plans for it. But what plans, and why?

I paid $599 + tax for my Surface on release day. 32GB + Touch cover. Two weeks ago I picked up an HP Envy X2 for $525.00 + tax. 99 bucks for Office and I'm just 25 bucks over what I paid for the Surface RT. And it's a full version of Office. I get 8 hours of battery life out of the tablet, and 11+ when docked. And when docked I can actually use it on my lap.

That's the future: low cost, full Windows 8 tablets/laptops. No restrictions.

So when I hear "RT is the future", I'm kind of skeptical. Maybe the intention is for RT devices, if anyone build them, to drop drastically in price.

 

[ninjaap]

I keep hearing that RT is the future, and I'm not hearing why. I do keep hearing how committed Microsoft is to it, and how they have big plans for it. But what plans, and why?

I paid $599 + tax for my Surface on release day. 32GB + Touch cover. Two weeks ago I picked up an HP Envy X2 for $525.00 + tax. 99 bucks for Office and I'm just 25 bucks over what I paid for the Surface RT. And it's a full version of Office. I get 8 hours of battery life out of the tablet, and 11+ when docked. And when docked I can actually use it on my lap.

That's the future: low cost, full Windows 8 tablets/laptops. No restrictions.

So when I hear "RT is the future", I'm kind of skeptical. Maybe the intention is for RT devices, if anyone build them, to drop drastically in price.

Just so we're on the same page, RT is being used to represent Modern UI. This is not a debate between ARM, Atom, I-processors, battery life or inclusion of Office.

 

[NickA]

Just so we're on the same page, RT is being used to represent Modern UI. This is not a debate between ARM, Atom, I-processors, battery life or inclusion of Office.

Well, forget what I said then :smile:

That being said, I'm having a hard time seeing Windows without a desktop. I say that because as a developer, I have many things going on at one time. Visual Studio, SQL Enterprise Manager, another instance of Visual Studio, and a debug window running on a second display. And that's on a slow day. Until the Modern UI is geared towards being more productive, the desktop will stick around.

 

[VidJuhEffex]

If they are phasing out desktop.... why are they making it the only app with an option for a 4x sized tile? Seems like they think people are going to keep wanting to go there.

Look, right now I like using the metro IE on my surface, (desktop IE on desktop) but when I download something and want to save it, I inevitably need to create a new folder... and can't.

I'm sure Desktop is here to stay, this is about adding functionality that should have been there at Windows 8's launch. File browsing computers at maximum efficiency will always somewhat resemble a desktop, shoehorning that into metro isn't worth it. Often people write how much they hope desktop goes away, or not have been bundled with the Surface. And the real kicker is when they say something like "its only used for file browsing and Office." Yeah, "only." I love plugging in a thumbstick, copying pictures, naming folders, dragging folders, OCD'ing my video collection. If desktop did nothing BUT file manage on the surface I would still be pleased with it, content in knowing I had the best file management "app" available, and the namesake of the OS: "Windows."

 

[AgentTheGreat]

I just don't see how they want to make something as complicated as Visual Studio into a ModernUI app. That environment is for power-geeks who have to feel in control of everything to do any useful work. If they try to create a ModernUI version, it will essentially have to be a maximized VS window with no chrome, and sure as hell hard to work with using touch. So the mouse will stay, and there is no practical advantage to porting such complicated tools to Metro.

Now about Windows RT: Intel and AMD will catch up, ARM based people will have to go because when those two giants improve power consumption on their chips (Intel has almost done it with its newest Atom chips) the legacy x86 programs that give Windows its advantage over others will be still here. Experienced developers who create that kind of software will also be still here. So you'll have a full blown Windows tablet you can take with you everywhere, and it will have the battery life of any RT powered device.

So RT will eventually go (it depends on chip makers). Windows Pro will stay, and it will take advantage of both desktop and Modern apps for the foreseeable future.

 

[ninjaap]

I just don't see how they want to make something as complicated as Visual Studio into a ModernUI app. That environment is for power-geeks who have to feel in control of everything to do any useful work. If they try to create a ModernUI version, it will essentially have to be a maximized VS window with no chrome, and sure as hell hard to work with using touch. So the mouse will stay, and there is no practical advantage to porting such complicated tools to Metro.

Now about Windows RT: Intel and AMD will catch up, ARM based people will have to go because when those two giants improve power consumption on their chips (Intel has almost done it with its newest Atom chips) the legacy x86 programs that give Windows its advantage over others will be still here. Experienced developers who create that kind of software will also be still here. So you'll have a full blown Windows tablet you can take with you everywhere, and it will have the battery life of any RT powered device.

So RT will eventually go (it depends on chip makers). Windows Pro will stay, and it will take advantage of both desktop and Modern apps for the foreseeable future.

Again, Windows RT in this discussion does not refer to ARM, but to Modern UI. And no one is suggesting the mouse to go away. The future is to have more than just a mouse and kb input, working seamlessly together.

 

[kylej1050]

The Surface RT is pretty capable as it is. Writing papers for school I hook my Surface to my 23" 1080p monitor and have the pdf pf the book pulled up with the assignment website next to it on the small screen with the 23" screen hosting desktop IE with Word. Works great with an external KB/mouse(wouldn't imagine trying that with the touchpad).

I do want to see some more expansion of APIs though. Just like Windows Phone not allowing serial over bluetooth which gives me no way to use a Metawatch they've made it where modern apps can't talk to USB serial comm ports. Why?! That's the kinda stuff I would LOVE to have because it would open me up to having a possible Arduino/Energia IDE for RT. They should really open up the sandbox a little bit.

 

[lucaslopatka]

1) You must realize that what you're saying is ridiculous. If you're talking about the general public (ie: non-techies) sure, you have a point. I've been working in this industry for years, and have seen a lot of changes as far as client-side development is concerned. On the server-side, not much has changed: plain-text configuration files, command-line utilities and batch scripting still rule. But hey, it's the future right? No one will need data!

2) Like I'm going to do all my coding on a phone, on a response-less touch keyboard that burns up my screen real-estate. I don't know about you, but I usually have about 30 windows going at the same time. Are you even a developer -- or just another Angry Birds expert?

3) Assuming the keyboard and mouse are replaced by gestures or something equally ridiculous... please suggest a gesture for "strnatcasecmp" (sure .NET function names usually aren't as cryptic, but PHP still dominates the web at 81% Usage Statistics and Market Share of Server-side Programming Languages for Websites, September 2013). Regardless -- what about user-defined class names and methods?

Windows 8, RT and Metro belong on a phone. As much as I despise Apple, at least they kept their platforms separate, and for good reason.

 

[inteller]

we're talking about a tablet here...when you said phone on point 2 I was like wha?

 

[aximtreo]

I guess if you want to talk about 10 years from now, you could be right. However, I don't think that there is ANY chance of ARM-based devices toppling and replacing x86 hardware entirely. The business world certainly hasn't converted its software for that, and the gaming community can't even control such a thing. I mean, consider that the new console generation is allegedly going to be x86-powered. How would game companies like it if as consoles come towards x86, PCs jump towards ARM?

I don't think you should think in terms of replacing anything. I believe that RT is destined to be the driver computer of over 90% of users. The other 10% would use RT to interface with more powerful software and hardware resident in the CLOUD. If RT can't handle the calculations necessary for high science, financial or theoretical needs, it certainly can handle the interface to the hardware/software that can do the job. Once done, RT certainly has the ability to manipulate the data and make reports required. Don't think 1o years, x86; think seamless interface to getting the job done. Proof is the ability to use Office 365 on the RT. RT is mostly used as a terminal to the O365 resident in the CLOUD.

I'm not a techie by any means. I'm an intermediate PC and WP user but I can envision just such a scenario happening in a lot soon time frame than 10 years.

 

[Matt J]

I think you're right. The "Metro" interface and getting apps from the Windows Store will be the future. I think there will always be an option to use the desktop, but it will become more and more buried into the OS. Much like the old "Command Prompt Interface". It is actually still there, even in RT... The Desktop Interface will go the same way....

When this happens, RT is the future.... the Pro is just a "stop gap" measure.