10-19-2013 02:11 PM
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  1. welsbloke's Avatar
    I love my RT it has done sterling service over the last 9 or 10 months since I have had it. Personally the hate generates from confusion, either in understanding what it can do or misunderstanding what it cannot.

    Many of the complaints levelled at the RT are just plain stupid and even when people are reviewing they review it against an iPad. What I mean by that to clarify as this is not a bad thing but when you complain about the screen orientation because you have gotten used to the iPad screen then yes that annoys me. I remember when all monitors where 4:3 now they are all 16:10 or equivalent yet in a tablet this is somehow bad. I could go on but it is this sort of nonsensical complaining that generates the hate.

    Over the last 9 months of so the OS has got progressively better and the new 8.1 release is another example and long may it continue. I am sat here now pondering whether too return 4 Surface Pro tablets sent in error and get the 4 RT tablets I ordered, that fact I am considering it speaks volumes for the RT when used in the right environment.
    rav16 likes this.
    07-22-2013 08:58 AM
  2. xandros9's Avatar
    When I first heard about RT, I knew it was trouble. I felt the confusion already.

    People are bashing it for not having full Windows apps, never mind the iPad's lack of OSX compatibility. But its not as much of a problem for Apple because they got a massive app library.

    on an unrelated note for Surface RT users, how's the performance?
    07-22-2013 11:23 AM
  3. Funky Cricket's Avatar
    2 reason's I think. Confusion, RT is not windows.. and they never should have called it windows 8, they should have called it windows tablet or something. confused non-IT people are about as scary as a hoard of zombies.
    second, is price, apple can charge a crazy premium, cause they have developed this mythos. Microsoft can't if they would have come out at 399 to start, they would have sold a lot better, people would be oh, well, I know i'm not getting apple, but i'm saving 100 bucks. I think the first thing would have led right to the second in the comsumer's mind, if they think they are getting windows 8, they'll pay up to 600 bucks with cover, when they are really getting, windows start menu and office... oh, and not a ton of apps.. then 600 bucks is a lot to ask, and it creates the paradox where the cosumer didn't feel it was a good deal. Apple can charge 600 bucks, cause every time you whip out our shiny ego.. I mean ipad, everyone thinks your cool, when you whip out your way more functional surface, people are like "what is that'... oh, it's NOT an ipad...

    you just can charge the same when the public has that perception.
    07-22-2013 01:03 PM
  4. thecaringkind's Avatar
    I have had an iPad mini, a rooted nook HD, a nexus 7, you name it. Performance wise with the 8.1 preview update my Surface RT runs very smoothly. Nary a stutter. I'm downloading torrents, playing games, cruising the web, multitasking, listening to music you name it. I'm using the RT the way most consumers use their android tablets. The same way iPad users often use theirs. I also have Microsoft office for productivity if I need it.

    It really is astounding the animus of so many tech writers and business reporters when it comes to Surface. There were some missteps sure. Doesn't mean the platform isn't viable and can't get better. That fact that the RT is Microsoft's FIRST attempt at production of a solid tablet built from the ground up says alot. Apple has produced some true dogs in its day. The Surface RT in any kind of comparison is not one.
    07-22-2013 01:14 PM
  5. inteller's Avatar
    2 reason's I think. Confusion, RT is not windows.. and they never should have called it windows 8, they should have called it windows tablet or something. confused non-IT people are about as scary as a hoard of zombies.
    second, is price, apple can charge a crazy premium, cause they have developed this mythos. Microsoft can't if they would have come out at 399 to start, they would have sold a lot better, people would be oh, well, I know i'm not getting apple, but i'm saving 100 bucks. I think the first thing would have led right to the second in the comsumer's mind, if they think they are getting windows 8, they'll pay up to 600 bucks with cover, when they are really getting, windows start menu and office... oh, and not a ton of apps.. then 600 bucks is a lot to ask, and it creates the paradox where the cosumer didn't feel it was a good deal. Apple can charge 600 bucks, cause every time you whip out our shiny ego.. I mean ipad, everyone thinks your cool, when you whip out your way more functional surface, people are like "what is that'... oh, it's NOT an ipad...

    you just can charge the same when the public has that perception.

    just stop it. the "its not windows" crowd need to go float. It is Windows minus desktop. Just like before it Windows N was windows without media player. Desktop is just a feature.
    07-22-2013 03:35 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    just stop it. the "its not windows" crowd need to go float. It is Windows minus desktop. Just like before it Windows N was windows without media player. Desktop is just a feature.
    The thing is most people have software that they would want to run. They hear the name "Windows" and think that software will run on RT.

    Apple didn't confuse consumers, since OS X and iOS are clearly differentiated.

    The lack of differentiation is a failure on the part of Microsoft's marketing.
    07-22-2013 03:43 PM
  7. inteller's Avatar
    it says what it can and can't do clearly on the box. If consumers are unwilling to read or ask, I have ZERO pity for them.
    07-22-2013 04:17 PM
  8. ctitanic's Avatar
    Reading the news about Surface RT makes me seek. We have a bunch of people writing about what they do not know and that's damaging this device. In another hand we have Tech geeks that do not understand what is the purpose of having a Tablet and want to replace their home pc with a cheap Surface RT. And if all this was not enough, you have Microsoft calling the Surface PRO a Tablet when it's by all means a TabletPC. That created even more confusion.

    Microsoft had to differentiate both platforms from day one:
    1- Surface RT is a Tablet and uses Windows Lite - do not call it Windows RT, it's too confuse.
    2- Surface PRO is a TabletPC and uses a full version of Windows.
    With these just two lines I'm avoiding all the confusion that we got with these devices.
    Laura Knotek and xandros9 like this.
    07-22-2013 09:19 PM
  9. NaNoo123's Avatar
    it says what it can and can't do clearly on the box. If consumers are unwilling to read or ask, I have ZERO pity for them.
    you mean zero pity for MS, as it's them that is being hurt.
    Those consumers probably just took it back and picked up something else.
    07-22-2013 11:19 PM
  10. chrsdrshm's Avatar
    I can't agree more with most of you here... I do believe the marketing of RT vs 8 and differences, would have helped a lot. Over all its a great product!! I got rid of my Nexus 10 ("android fanboy")for this and it was well worth it.... I really wanted the Pro, mainly for the Performance, but for me I didn't want a TabTop or Lapblet haha......I have plenty of access to x86 hardware.... I think someone here mentioned before about RT not running legacy or x86 apps... but no one got mad at the Ipad for not running Mac apps... anyways... I won't say much more, it just gets me fired up about all the hate, I just don't understand... ok that was just a bunch of random thoughts.. However, I will state again.. I love the Surface RT!!!
    07-23-2013 07:35 AM
  11. Chregu's Avatar
    I think someone here mentioned before about RT not running legacy or x86 apps... but no one got mad at the Ipad for not running Mac apps...
    The iPad runs iOS, not OS X, that's a difference most people already knew from the iPhone. Everybody knew that the iPad was just a blown up iPhone. This is much easier to explain to people than a Windows exactly looking like every Windows 8, but only running a very, very limited app selection.

    At least I would never buy (or recommend) a Windows RT tablet, I'd rather wait for the new Atom generation.
    Last edited by Chregu; 07-23-2013 at 08:15 AM.
    07-23-2013 07:49 AM
  12. thecaringkind's Avatar
    Then there is the day in day out operation of the device. Provided that you have a fully functioning unit the performance is very good. Is it blazingly fast? No. Is it as as painfully slow at daily tasks as just about every tech & business blog/article makes it out to be? NO.

    I think we can all agree that initial marketing was HORRIBLE causing much confusion and breeding a huge group of tech enthusiasts who cut off their noses to spite their faces.

    The RT is a tablet. Its thin, lightweight for its size & construction. It has peripheral capabilities built in that other tablets do not offer. It rests fine on my lap or when I'm reclined in a comfy chair. The speakers are surprisingly good with good range and volume. The multitasking is very nice and fluid. There are plenty if apps to keep you engaged with more to come.

    Bottom line? So many people spend so much time griping about its limitations, they totally overlook the good things it brings to the table as a tablet on its own.

    I'm glad there are many of us who appreciate the device & can cut through the white noise of the techno blog-osphere. Cheers!
    07-23-2013 08:05 AM
  13. chrsdrshm's Avatar
    Bottom line? So many people spend so much time griping about its limitations, they totally overlook the good things it brings to the table as a tablet on its own.

    I'm glad there are many of us who appreciate the device & can cut through the white noise of the techno blog-osphere. Cheers!
    +1
    07-23-2013 10:10 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    The iPad runs iOS, not OS X, that's a difference most people already knew from the iPhone. Everybody knew that the iPad was just a blown up iPhone. This is much easier to explain to people than a Windows exactly looking like every Windows 8, but only running a very, very limited app selection.

    At least I would never buy (or recommend) a Windows RT tablet, I'd rather wait for the new Atom generation.
    I agree with you here. Users know that the iPad is a mobile device and don't expect it to run legacy apps. However, it has a massive amount of apps available that make it very capable. The RT can't run legacy apps, and the apps available to it are quite limited. Maybe users expect it to run anything because "Windows" is in the description? I don't know.
    07-23-2013 10:17 AM
  15. chrsdrshm's Avatar
    The iPad runs iOS, not OS X, that's a difference most people already knew from the iPhone. Everybody knew that the iPad was just a blown up iPhone. This is much easier to explain to people than a Windows exactly looking like every Windows 8, but only running a very, very limited app selection.

    At least I would never buy (or recommend) a Windows RT tablet, I'd rather wait for the new Atom generation.
    Well, the limited app selection will grow with time, same thing happened with iOS and Android. I would be curious with all the apps out there (iOS and Android) what percentage is actually used. I have a ton of apps on my S3 and only use less then 12, but that's just me.

    The windows phone looks like windows 8 but people aren't expecting it to run all x86 applications
    07-23-2013 10:19 AM
  16. Chregu's Avatar
    Well, the limited app selection will grow with time, same thing happened with iOS and Android. I would be curious with all the apps out there (iOS and Android) what percentage is actually used. I have a ton of apps on my S3 and only use less then 12, but that's just me.

    The windows phone looks like windows 8 but people aren't expecting it to run all x86 applications
    Windows Phone doesn't have a desktop for example. I don't really think this is comparable, mostly because Windows Phone 7 was released before Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 still looks very differently. Windows RT looks exactly like Windows 8.

    I don't want to say that the Surface RT is a bad choice if you have the apps you need. But if I'd want to buy a productive tablet, I'd have to buy a iPad because there are many apps in my field not available for Windows RT (or Windows Phone 8) or a tablet with Windows 8.
    07-23-2013 10:25 AM
  17. chrsdrshm's Avatar
    Windows Phone doesn't have a desktop for example. I don't really think this is comparable, mostly because Windows Phone 7 was released before Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 still looks very differently. Windows RT looks exactly like Windows 8.

    I don't want to say that the Surface RT is a bad choice if you have the apps you need. But if I'd want to buy a productive tablet, I'd have to buy a iPad because there are many apps in my field not available for Windows RT (or Windows Phone 8) or a tablet with Windows 8.
    I follow you, I do wish they would just get rid of the desktop in RT, I don't see a need for it. Maybe they couldn't get rid of the "desktop" with out losing functionally of Windows RT? Maybe to help out users who don't want to get rid of the desktop..... I have no idea...

    I Think get rid of the desktop in RT, and explain it like a large windows phone, with full office..lol

    A little off topic, I have to admit when I first used Windows 8, I HATED it... finally i took the time and watched a few youtube videos explaining how to get around in the Metro Interface and it totally changed my mind...

    But as you stated it doesn't work for you and that's what really matters!..... but doesn't mean its a horrible device (not saying that you said it was but a lot of the reviews do).. That's what gets me so fired up... Anyways, I really hope Microsoft is able to change that perception, try not to be the IPAD Killer or Android Killer and just be a Microsoft Tablet...
    Chregu likes this.
    07-23-2013 10:59 AM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    I have a ton of apps on my S3 and only use less then 12, but that's just me.
    I realized that I'm similar to you in that regard. There are about 12 apps that I use multiple times per day. The problem is that about half of those apps have absolutely no replacements in the Store. A couple more have replacements, but very poor 3rd party ones.
    07-23-2013 11:54 AM
  19. prlundberg's Avatar
    Well, the limited app selection will grow with time, same thing happened with iOS and Android.
    There is a difference there though. Apple immediately had a huge market share and Android grew their share quickly too. When you have marketshare you attract the best developers. They are going to concentrate on where they can make the most money, not the platform they feel is the best or has the most potential. Microsoft hasn't hardly made a dent in the market and the quality of available apps reflects that. From what I have heard they haven't exactly made the platform developer-friendly either. So they still have a huge hill to climb. I like their vision but their execution has been terrible.
    07-23-2013 12:22 PM
  20. chrsdrshm's Avatar
    There is a difference there though. Apple immediately had a huge market share and Android grew their share quickly too. When you have marketshare you attract the best developers. They are going to concentrate on where they can make the most money, not the platform they feel is the best or has the most potential. Microsoft hasn't hardly made a dent in the market and the quality of available apps reflects that. From what I have heard they haven't exactly made the platform developer-friendly either. So they still have a huge hill to climb. I like their vision but their execution has been terrible.
    Did Google offer incentives to developers? Just curious.... Maybe that's an option for Microsoft?

    I just feel like when Android was first on the scene they went though this same phase. Maybe not.. maybe I am just Imagining it.. I remember no one wanted to create for Android cause everyone was making money with apple.
    07-23-2013 01:09 PM
  21. prlundberg's Avatar
    Did Google offer incentives to developers? Just curious.... Maybe that's an option for Microsoft?

    I just feel like when Android was first on the scene they went though this same phase. Maybe not.. maybe I am just Imagining it.. I remember no one wanted to create for Android cause everyone was making money with apple.
    Android did struggle a bit at first, and even today their app quality isn't as good as Apple's. But they soon gained a large chunk of marketshare which developers had to pay attention to. They gained this market share by flooding the market with inexpensive and open devices. Microsoft has neither. They do have a lot of Windows 8 devices out there on PCs I guess, however people tend to be avoiding the Metro/Modern interface as much as possible.
    07-23-2013 01:58 PM
  22. mms-pc's Avatar
    Just heard from news saying that Taiwan Microsoft officially announced both Surface RT/PRO would be available in Taiwan on August 4th, but no words about the price. Anyway I don't care, I already bought my Surface RT this February......
    07-24-2013 05:04 AM
  23. prlundberg's Avatar
    Well, this issue really bothers me too.

    I have much to tell about what I think. Why this rejection on Windows RT ? There's no logical and intelligent reasons, but the fact that Apple is cool, everybody praise them and anything they put on the market will get kudos, despite its real quality and features. And Microsoft ? well, they have been perceived as "the past" and no matter how good and/innovative their product can be, press will always be skeptic. It seems that blaming MS is cool and gets clickthoughs.
    So you don't think all the missing features and apps are logical and intelligent reasons for not liking RT? How about paying over $100 for a keyboard? I mean I do like mine for what it does, but to act as though it is the perfect tablet and superior in all ways is ridiculous. Yeah, there's a lot of innovation in RT but Microsoft also blew a lot of important details that make for a good overall experience and much of the critisism is absolutely valid, even if it is often overblown.

    I have worked with a lot of Microsoft products over the past 20 years and I can tell you the scorn was well earned. It's only recently they have started to put a real effort into quality and security but it has come at the expense of openess and compatibility. Taking a new Surface out of the box and then having to spend hours updating it certainly doesn't help diminish their old reputation.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 07-25-2013 at 10:25 AM. Reason: removing quoted link
    07-25-2013 09:17 AM
  24. inteller's Avatar
    how much would you pay for the ipad keyboard? What you say? Apple doesn't offer one?
    07-25-2013 10:21 AM
  25. prlundberg's Avatar
    how much would you pay for the ipad keyboard? What you say? Apple doesn't offer one?
    Oh, about $50. Which is what good quality 3rd party ones cost. If I had any desire to own an iPad that is. Which I don't. If I did, I probably wouldn't buy a keyboard for it because iPad doesn't have a desktop mode you have to use to do basic configuration which is quite frustrating to navigate without a keyboard and trackpad.

    Like I said, I do like my RT. But I'm not an apologist for Microsoft.
    07-25-2013 11:08 AM
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