Why so much hate for RT?

Chregu

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Well, the limited app selection will grow with time, same thing happened with iOS and Android. I would be curious with all the apps out there (iOS and Android) what percentage is actually used. I have a ton of apps on my S3 and only use less then 12, but that's just me.

The windows phone looks like windows 8 but people aren't expecting it to run all x86 applications

Windows Phone doesn't have a desktop for example. I don't really think this is comparable, mostly because Windows Phone 7 was released before Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 still looks very differently. Windows RT looks exactly like Windows 8.

I don't want to say that the Surface RT is a bad choice if you have the apps you need. But if I'd want to buy a productive tablet, I'd have to buy a iPad because there are many apps in my field not available for Windows RT (or Windows Phone 8) or a tablet with Windows 8.
 

chrsdrshm

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Windows Phone doesn't have a desktop for example. I don't really think this is comparable, mostly because Windows Phone 7 was released before Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 still looks very differently. Windows RT looks exactly like Windows 8.

I don't want to say that the Surface RT is a bad choice if you have the apps you need. But if I'd want to buy a productive tablet, I'd have to buy a iPad because there are many apps in my field not available for Windows RT (or Windows Phone 8) or a tablet with Windows 8.

I follow you, I do wish they would just get rid of the desktop in RT, I don't see a need for it. Maybe they couldn't get rid of the "desktop" with out losing functionally of Windows RT? Maybe to help out users who don't want to get rid of the desktop..... I have no idea...

I Think get rid of the desktop in RT, and explain it like a large windows phone, with full office..lol

A little off topic, I have to admit when I first used Windows 8, I HATED it... finally i took the time and watched a few youtube videos explaining how to get around in the Metro Interface and it totally changed my mind...

But as you stated it doesn't work for you and that's what really matters!..... but doesn't mean its a horrible device (not saying that you said it was but a lot of the reviews do).. That's what gets me so fired up... Anyways, I really hope Microsoft is able to change that perception, try not to be the IPAD Killer or Android Killer and just be a Microsoft Tablet...
 

tgp

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I have a ton of apps on my S3 and only use less then 12, but that's just me.

I realized that I'm similar to you in that regard. There are about 12 apps that I use multiple times per day. The problem is that about half of those apps have absolutely no replacements in the Store. A couple more have replacements, but very poor 3rd party ones.
 

prlundberg

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Well, the limited app selection will grow with time, same thing happened with iOS and Android.

There is a difference there though. Apple immediately had a huge market share and Android grew their share quickly too. When you have marketshare you attract the best developers. They are going to concentrate on where they can make the most money, not the platform they feel is the best or has the most potential. Microsoft hasn't hardly made a dent in the market and the quality of available apps reflects that. From what I have heard they haven't exactly made the platform developer-friendly either. So they still have a huge hill to climb. I like their vision but their execution has been terrible.
 

chrsdrshm

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There is a difference there though. Apple immediately had a huge market share and Android grew their share quickly too. When you have marketshare you attract the best developers. They are going to concentrate on where they can make the most money, not the platform they feel is the best or has the most potential. Microsoft hasn't hardly made a dent in the market and the quality of available apps reflects that. From what I have heard they haven't exactly made the platform developer-friendly either. So they still have a huge hill to climb. I like their vision but their execution has been terrible.

Did Google offer incentives to developers? Just curious.... Maybe that's an option for Microsoft?

I just feel like when Android was first on the scene they went though this same phase. Maybe not.. maybe I am just Imagining it.. I remember no one wanted to create for Android cause everyone was making money with apple.
 

prlundberg

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Did Google offer incentives to developers? Just curious.... Maybe that's an option for Microsoft?

I just feel like when Android was first on the scene they went though this same phase. Maybe not.. maybe I am just Imagining it.. I remember no one wanted to create for Android cause everyone was making money with apple.

Android did struggle a bit at first, and even today their app quality isn't as good as Apple's. But they soon gained a large chunk of marketshare which developers had to pay attention to. They gained this market share by flooding the market with inexpensive and open devices. Microsoft has neither. They do have a lot of Windows 8 devices out there on PCs I guess, however people tend to be avoiding the Metro/Modern interface as much as possible.
 

mms-pc

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Just heard from news saying that Taiwan Microsoft officially announced both Surface RT/PRO would be available in Taiwan on August 4th, but no words about the price. Anyway I don't care, I already bought my Surface RT this February......
 

prlundberg

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Well, this issue really bothers me too.

I have much to tell about what I think. Why this rejection on Windows RT ? There's no logical and intelligent reasons, but the fact that Apple is cool, everybody praise them and anything they put on the market will get kudos, despite its real quality and features. And Microsoft ? well, they have been perceived as "the past" and no matter how good and/innovative their product can be, press will always be skeptic. It seems that blaming MS is cool and gets clickthoughs.

So you don't think all the missing features and apps are logical and intelligent reasons for not liking RT? How about paying over $100 for a keyboard? I mean I do like mine for what it does, but to act as though it is the perfect tablet and superior in all ways is ridiculous. Yeah, there's a lot of innovation in RT but Microsoft also blew a lot of important details that make for a good overall experience and much of the critisism is absolutely valid, even if it is often overblown.

I have worked with a lot of Microsoft products over the past 20 years and I can tell you the scorn was well earned. It's only recently they have started to put a real effort into quality and security but it has come at the expense of openess and compatibility. Taking a new Surface out of the box and then having to spend hours updating it certainly doesn't help diminish their old reputation.
 
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prlundberg

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how much would you pay for the ipad keyboard? What you say? Apple doesn't offer one?

Oh, about $50. Which is what good quality 3rd party ones cost. If I had any desire to own an iPad that is. Which I don't. If I did, I probably wouldn't buy a keyboard for it because iPad doesn't have a desktop mode you have to use to do basic configuration which is quite frustrating to navigate without a keyboard and trackpad.

Like I said, I do like my RT. But I'm not an apologist for Microsoft.
 

inteller

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there are no keyboards for that money that are that thin or integrated, everything for a iPad looks like a folio case and doubles the thickness.
 

prlundberg

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there are no keyboards for that money that are that thin or integrated, everything for a iPad looks like a folio case and doubles the thickness.

No, the keyboards are not exactly the same, but that's not what you asked. They have bluetooth and can be used on other devices so they have advantages too.

Being thin and integrated does not mean the resale price is justified.
 

homeedition88

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Hi Guys
I would like to say couple of things about this topic. I am a developer and i worked for a couple of projects with linux/unix platform, ios platform and android platform. Right now I am trying to improve my C# skills to build apps for windows 8 (Phone/Rt/8) platforms. I used various devices like ipads, android tablets etc.

Limited ability devices like ipad (for example when you are surfing web with safari, background tabs automatically closed by system to provide more free ram space) are became more annoying (for me of course.) I start using RT and i loved it. OneNote and internet explorer integration is very good. Functionality on RT is beyond that Ipad and Android base tablets.

On Android side there are some multitask experiments going on (like Samsung note series multi windows etc.) which are not sufficient enough because basically the core of OS is not optimize this kind of job. Microsoft did a better job on RT but;

Opening an app took some time, not so much choice on hardware (especially cpu, or we can say more powerful Cpu options), naming failure to separate and differentiate OS's, RT did scare hardware manufactures and so on...

These are the mistakes made by Microsoft. About hate I really don't understand why. These are just products, tools. I know to get them you need to pay for them and everybody wants to get best value to their products of course but still i can't understand it.
Note: English is not my mother language sorry for the mistakes :)
 

prlundberg

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it does when there is no equal. that's what I'm attempting to tell you but there seems to be a comprehension barrier.

Before claiming I have a comprehension problem, perhaps you should look at Surface sales numbers again. Consumers aren't buying your argument. Apple also uses this "they'll pay whatever we want them to" strategy, which has helped greatly to drive Android's success.
 

inteller

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we were talking about the price of the keyboard and now we have shifted to surface sales....definitely a comprehension barrier somewhere.
 

prlundberg

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we were talking about the price of the keyboard and now we have shifted to surface sales....definitely a comprehension barrier somewhere.

Perhaps, or maybe just ignorance. You evidently haven't read all the reviews and the resulting discussions where the additional cost of the keyboard is a dealbreaker.

Or maybe you don't realize the Surface itself was overpriced to begin with, with mid-range hardware being sold at a greater profit margin than even Apple would dare try. I would expect you to use the same logic there as well.

But just so we get rid of any excuse for further ignorance, here are the costs to manufacture as estimated by IHS iSuppli Teardown Analysis Service:

32GB Surface RT: $271
Touch Cover: $16-18

Charging almost double the manufacturing costs is gouging in this industry. Charging over 5 times the cost is ridiculously greedy and arrogant. You can argue that Office brings more value to the Surface if you need it. You can't make any such argument with the keyboard.
 
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inteller

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Right, because it took absolutely nothing to come up with the design and development of it...it was just "poof" and a keyboard appeared.
 

thecaringkind

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Excellent point on the keyboard cover(s). Of course almost all OEM's gouge to some extent, (Apple and flash memory come to mind), however all things considered Microsoft priced ALOT of people who may gave been interested in the Surface RT right out of the market. It was absolutely overpriced from day one when you consider the limitations the finished product had. To justify the previous price point a much more polished product should have been offered or at the very least including the type covers may have added value for the high asking price.
 

prlundberg

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Right, because it took absolutely nothing to come up with the design and development of it...it was just "poof" and a keyboard appeared.

The design is innovative, but not on a technical level.

It's quite clear that no matter what I present you will have another excuse to justify it, and even if you are correct it was still a bad move by Microsoft, just in a different way. So I see no point in continuing this discussion. Have a good weekend.
 

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