I know it's been said but this pricing is insane. MS updated the Surface and RT 8.1 is an improvement I'll give you that. However, the original Surface RT was praised for design and there were little to know complaints about the hardware. The complaints against it were about Windows 8 RT and it's lack of an ecosystem and confusion over legacy apps. Now what would be a better way to build an ecosystem and get the legacy apps on RT than to say look there are millions of people using Windows 8 RT because they all just bought a Surface for $249 with a cover. This should have happened with the first Surface RT it didn't and they took a 900 million dollar hit for it. So now you release an updated model that is great and all but is just spec bumps and price it similarly nobody bought the last one because of RT not specs or build quality. I am sorry but Apple owns the tablet market and MS is just going to have another Zune on its hand cause they are making the same mistakes. Might as well call it the Surface HD cause like the Zune HD it will be praised for its design but be the last one ever made.
What do you think about the price?
- Thread starter ZombieBacchus
- Start date
jlzimmerman
Member
Is it worth $499? Most likely. Will the price keep most people away? Probably. The average person sees "Microsoft" and thinks "Meh" or "umm, no. Windows 8 blah blah blah." The average person sees Apple and thinks "It's only $499 it's great it's going to cure my cancer I love it OMFG I'm so trendy Steve Jobs created computers."
$399 or even $449 would turn many more heads. The Surface 2 is almost twice the device the comparable iPad is, but for the love of God MICROSOFT MUST FIX THEIR IMAGE AND THEY MUST MARKET THE SURFACE 2 AND SURFACE PRO 2 INTELLIGENTLY. They have real problems doing this.
$399 or even $449 would turn many more heads. The Surface 2 is almost twice the device the comparable iPad is, but for the love of God MICROSOFT MUST FIX THEIR IMAGE AND THEY MUST MARKET THE SURFACE 2 AND SURFACE PRO 2 INTELLIGENTLY. They have real problems doing this.
toddpart
New member
EDIT - Not sure why this didn't go in as an indented response, but it was in response to JMERREY's post above.
First, let me say I'm not attacking your post/opinion. Yours is just one of many I continue to see re: pricing of Surface/Surface 2.
Here's my question to you and the general populous of people who have the same opinion...why should the Surface/Surface 2 be cheaper in comparison to iOS and/or Android? Why? I understand that some believe it should be cheaper solely to gain market share and that is the only argument in which I can find a shred of validity. But, market share aside, why should it be cheaper? The build quality is at least as good, arguably better, than iPad and certainly better than 99% of the Android tabs out there. You get Office included and more services (SkyDrive and Skype) included than you do on either of those other devices/platforms. And, regarding the keyboard, the others don't include one so if you're buying one of those devices and want a keyboard/cover you're paying out additional money for one as well.
So, again, what is the justification for why it should be cheaper? It's already cheaper than its primary competitor, iPad, so if all other things are equal or better is this call for reduced pricing just to take a swing at market share?
Full disclosure - I own a Surface RT and Pro and am considering upgrading both.
First, let me say I'm not attacking your post/opinion. Yours is just one of many I continue to see re: pricing of Surface/Surface 2.
Here's my question to you and the general populous of people who have the same opinion...why should the Surface/Surface 2 be cheaper in comparison to iOS and/or Android? Why? I understand that some believe it should be cheaper solely to gain market share and that is the only argument in which I can find a shred of validity. But, market share aside, why should it be cheaper? The build quality is at least as good, arguably better, than iPad and certainly better than 99% of the Android tabs out there. You get Office included and more services (SkyDrive and Skype) included than you do on either of those other devices/platforms. And, regarding the keyboard, the others don't include one so if you're buying one of those devices and want a keyboard/cover you're paying out additional money for one as well.
So, again, what is the justification for why it should be cheaper? It's already cheaper than its primary competitor, iPad, so if all other things are equal or better is this call for reduced pricing just to take a swing at market share?
Full disclosure - I own a Surface RT and Pro and am considering upgrading both.
Too expensive when there are other manufacturers that are making tablets in the $349-500 range with the new processors
toddpart
New member
OK, but that is actually an advantage of tablets running Windows vs those running iOS, right? If someone is going to buy an iPad there is really only one set of prices. If someone is looking for a Windows tablet they can get the Surface, which is what Microsoft claims as the pinnacle of the Windows 8 tablet experience (just as Apple does with the iPad...the best, only, iOS tablet experience), or they can go for other OEM Windows tablets that may not offer the same experience or build quality that one finds in the Surface...but may better match that buyer's needs. So, again, what's wrong with MS holding their price point for what they feel is the premier Windows tablet experience? The tech specs certainly support that price and are better than those of their competitor (Apple) while beating their price point.
Remember, MS is not trying to compete with the likes of HP, Acer, Sony, or Lenovo....they are partners and a separate revenue stream they don't wish to disrupt.
nuprotocol
New member
Pete
Retired Moderator
jmerrey
New member
Hi Todd (if that's not your name sorry)
I would also not attack your opinion, or try to change it. I think it's amusing when one person criticizes another for their taste in something, whether it be food, music, art, tech, whatever. Full disclosure-I own a Surface Pro which serves as my main computer (Targus 3.0 docking station, dual monitors, etc.), an iPad Mini, Lumia 1020, and I have owned in the past about 7 other Windows Phones, a Lenovo Yoga 13, and a Nexus 7. I have the iPad Mini as a consumption device, but I truly love Windows 8, and would replace the Mini in a heartbeat if/when I find a 7-8" W8 device that I like. I am certainly a MS ****** when it comes to using their devices and services. However, I am realistic when it comes to defending what they are in the eyes of the general public. I am not afraid to call them out.
Microsoft needs to get people using Windows 8 by choice, not by necessity. They need to want to use it, and the only way to do that is to offer high quality devices at extremely competitive prices. My sister recently was in the market for a laptop. She was set on a Macbook, and I offered her my lightly used Yoga at a family discount. She agreed, but only if she could use the device for a few weeks first to make sure she liked Windows 8. Well, she absolutely loves Windows 8, and will probably make that her OS of choice in the future for all devices. I remember her comment, "I can't believe this is Microsoft." To expect the general consumer to take the plunge on Windows 8, when they can get a known commodity like an iPad at the same price, is asking a lot. Microsoft needs to change their public image if they want to make this work. They need to get people using Windows 8. 64 gb Surface 2, with touch cover, at $399 could do that. 32gb Surface 2, without touch cover, at $449, when they can get an iPad for almost the same price, is quite a leap of faith. Microsoft doesn't have the market image that allows them to price their products high. They need to create it.
As for offering free services, I don't think the general consumer reacts to that. They are purchasing the product. Very few consumers buy the car because the dealership offers a year of free oil changes. They are buying the car, not the oil changes.
Are there some people who will purchase the Surface 2, or Surface 2 Pro at full price? Or course. I'm one of them. But I also understand I'm not the normal consumer. Very few of the members of this message board are general consumers. We're enthusiasts. Unfortunately for Microsoft, there aren't enough of us.
Adretheon
New member
For the RT that may be true, but for Pro that's not. The Surface Pro is aimed towards people looking to buy a laptop/tablet. Something that can be used as a tablet, but can also do work like a laptop, and the price point is way off. You can buy a decent Asus touchscreen laptop for $500 with 4GB Ram and 500 HDD. That compared to the $899 Pro with only 64GB HDD is ridiculous. I would much rather buy the Laptop. Hell, even Sony Vaio goes for $850 for 8GB of ram, 1TB HDD and a pretty decent i5 1.8 CPU. And these things come with HDMI and multiple USB ports.
MS has to break into this market as well, and with the prices they have they won't. Sure they still get paid if people buy the others, but they need to make themselves the leaders here. This is where the surface becomes far beyond what the Ipad or android tablets are.
As for the RT, they need to stop making commercials where they show off the keyboard. Yes, it's cool that there is one, but it doesn't come with. That's making people skeptical about the price.
WillysJeepMan
Active member
Excellent insight. I have an emotional soft spot for the Zune and by extension the Surface RT. Realistically though, I've come to the conclusion that Microsoft needed to announce the Surface 2 w/TouchCover for $349, and clear out existing RT inventory at $200-$249. There's still time to do that during the holiday shopping season. I remember a few years back when the Zune 30 was clearanced on Black Friday for $100 while the Zune 80 had just made its debut. It (Zune 30) was the most "in demand" consumer gadget for that holiday shopping season. It is possible, just possible, for it to happen again with the RT this year. That firesale of the 30 helped to spike interest in the Zune that year.
Microsoft has made a video of the press announcement available. It was painful to watch. Lots of talk, very little visual. Don't just explain what 46% improvement in color accuracy is, SHOW IT! Don't just talk about the improvements to speed and battery life, SHOW IT with some real world scenarios. The Surface RT does things that no other consumer tablet can do. Microsoft has done a poor job of explaining it, and even worse job of SHOWING IT. If MS doesn't hold the hands of the press and bloggers and walk them through all that it can do, then they aren't going to do it for themselves.
(aka "sracer" from ZuneScene)
berty6294
New member
The price is fine with me, but I say $50 less for each of the RT's and $100 less for the Pro's and these things would have sold wonderfully!
Way too high, I think. Normally, I wouldn't but that ASUS T100 just kills it. It's $100, and that's with the keyboard dock included. For a keyboard on the Surface 2, it's AT LEAST a $580 investment, vs. ASUS's $350 T100, which is x86. Basically, I think it's priced OK compared to the iPad, but even Samsung's Galaxy Tab 3 (which needs a hardware refresh) is at $400, I think.
While I am taking the plunge into the Surface ecosystem (assuming nothing drastic happens causing me to cancel my preorder), I do think the Surface 2 is priced too high. Apple is lucky enough to control the their iEcosystem from start to finish, you have the iPod Touch $229, iPad Mini at $329, iPad 2 at $399, iPad with Retina at $499, Air at $999, MacBook Pro 13 at $1,399, and MacBook Pro 15 $1,799... all starting prices, but there is very little to no overlap, once you reach that minimum, you jump to the next product.
Microsoft, on the other hand, has little to no control over the offerings of their OEM's which are now competitors in this field. For an apple to apple comparison using the above products, the Surface 2 is equivalent the iPad with Retina. In the consumers' eyes, what's happening to Microsoft is, the OEM's are releasing Air and Pro 13s around the same price as the iPad. There isn't really a choice here for most consumers as they would get the Air or Pro 13 over the iPad. The only thing Apple has going for it in this instance, is that they've segregated iOS from OSX so they can't run the same applications... Microsoft doesn't have this option because full Windows 8 can run everything Windows RT can run and more.
I will say that the base model price for the Surface Pro 2 is about right at $899, but it is kind of ridiculous that each upgrade costs $100+ more than the previous version. This arbitrary $100 increase also applies to the Surface 2 and shouldn't be more than $50.
Also, since they use the keyboard as a huge selling point, almost never showing the on screen keyboard, they should at least include the original touch cover with each Surface.
Microsoft, on the other hand, has little to no control over the offerings of their OEM's which are now competitors in this field. For an apple to apple comparison using the above products, the Surface 2 is equivalent the iPad with Retina. In the consumers' eyes, what's happening to Microsoft is, the OEM's are releasing Air and Pro 13s around the same price as the iPad. There isn't really a choice here for most consumers as they would get the Air or Pro 13 over the iPad. The only thing Apple has going for it in this instance, is that they've segregated iOS from OSX so they can't run the same applications... Microsoft doesn't have this option because full Windows 8 can run everything Windows RT can run and more.
I will say that the base model price for the Surface Pro 2 is about right at $899, but it is kind of ridiculous that each upgrade costs $100+ more than the previous version. This arbitrary $100 increase also applies to the Surface 2 and shouldn't be more than $50.
Also, since they use the keyboard as a huge selling point, almost never showing the on screen keyboard, they should at least include the original touch cover with each Surface.
Adretheon
New member
They should also seriously consider lowering the price of the keyboards as well. a 50-75$ reduction would go a long way for people.
toddpart
New member
Appreciate the rational conversation rather than the emotional we so often see elsewhere
I agree with your thoughts about MS needing to improve it's image with consumers. I'm going to make the leap, based on your comments, that that is the reason you feel the Surface needs to be cheaper...to make up for the bad image and get people to choose their product. Not that it needs to be cheaper because it does not hold the same value as its competitors. In other words, market share...it should be cheaper to gain market share.
So, let me bounce this one off you for your thoughts...what if MS doesn't care as much about the market share of their Surface devices as much as they do about their market share of OS's? I happen to think the Surface(s) are great devices and really are in a class of themselves for the moment. I also think that MS has done a brilliant job of creating them to show what is possible with the combination of innovative hw engineering and their baby...Windows 8. And they're doing this to A) push OEM's to create stuff that can really compete head to head with Apple and WIN, and B) to send a strong message to the market about their commitment to Windows 8. They have drawn a line in the sand with where they think the world's most popular OS needs to go and they want to show that they are so committed to that vision that they're going to spend their own money on HW as well. You have to admit the Surface set the bar in a lot of ways and OEM's have actually come around; i.e. the Yoga's and the new Sony devices, etc. The Surface doesn't really compete with them head to head because of the price difference. For a dedicated Windows user, like most of us reading this, they are going to go look at now Windows based PC's and many will see they can get more for the money from an OEM. And here's the kicker....the OEM's now have their great kit mainly because they were forced to step up their game to match and beat the vision of the Surface. For MS, so what if they don't buy a Surface...they're still buying a Windows PC and that Windows revenue engine keeps on rolling.
I think the business world would be wise to remember some of the brilliant tactics, marketing and otherwise, that MS used to achieve the dominance in PC's that they still own to this day. I think that the joint go to market plan with Windows 8 and Surface may be seen as one great strategy a few years from now. Just some thoughts from this MS fan boy...
(and yes, my name is Todd :smile: )
WillysJeepMan
Active member
Hi Todd, good thoughts there.
It may very well be that is what Microsoft is thinking. However, given that OEMs have trashed Win 8 RT publicly, and are on record that they are not following Microsoft down that path, I don't see the benefit of Microsoft setting the bar for RT devices. If the OEMs want no part of RT, then I'd say to Microsoft to make the S2/RT a loss-leader into the Surface world. They (Microsoft) need to make RT something to be reckoned with, not ignored.
Windows-based computers are viewed with a commodity mindset. Price is the top (or near top) priority for customers. Build quality is not something the typical Windows customer is that concerned with. So yeah, Microsoft go ahead and make a premier device but keep in mind that you cannot charge a premiere price for it... that mindset isn't there... yet.
While it is wise to remember some of Microsoft's brilliant tactics, it is also wise to remember their blunders... Origami, Kin, Courier (as a FUD tactic not an actual product), and Zune (to a lesser degree), and Surface round 1.
It may very well be that is what Microsoft is thinking. However, given that OEMs have trashed Win 8 RT publicly, and are on record that they are not following Microsoft down that path, I don't see the benefit of Microsoft setting the bar for RT devices. If the OEMs want no part of RT, then I'd say to Microsoft to make the S2/RT a loss-leader into the Surface world. They (Microsoft) need to make RT something to be reckoned with, not ignored.
Windows-based computers are viewed with a commodity mindset. Price is the top (or near top) priority for customers. Build quality is not something the typical Windows customer is that concerned with. So yeah, Microsoft go ahead and make a premier device but keep in mind that you cannot charge a premiere price for it... that mindset isn't there... yet.
While it is wise to remember some of Microsoft's brilliant tactics, it is also wise to remember their blunders... Origami, Kin, Courier (as a FUD tactic not an actual product), and Zune (to a lesser degree), and Surface round 1.
jmerrey
New member
I agree with what you are saying, as it applies to the Surface 2 Pro. I do see it as a way for MS to drive their OEMs. While I think it is also overpriced, I think it's not as bad as the Surface 2. The Pro 2 is meant for enterprise and power users, and the price is therefore close to being justified. I think the Surface Pro 2 price should stay where it is, but include the Type Cover. How that works logistically with all the colored Type Covers, I'm not sure.
I think the Surface 2 needs to be priced much lower, simply as a vehicle to get people using Windows 8 by choice. My opinion on the 32gb Surface 2 is the same as the 32 gb Surface RT: there is no place for it in the market, simply due to the lack of storage. My father purchased one and was immediately turned off by this fact alone. Yes, you can purchase an expandable memory stick. And yes, 8.1 brings much better management of the expanded memory, but why should the consumer have to do this? So, my opinion is that the 64gb Surface 2, at $549, or the 32gb Surface 2 with memory stick at roughly $500, are both overpriced. Add the Touch or Type Cover, which anyone who sees a Surface associate with it because of the marketing images. and you are really getting up there in price. Add this to the fact that the Surface 2 is so limited in comparison to the iPad, and you have a tough sell. Yes, you get office on the Surface 2. When someone walks into a Best Buy to purchase a tablet, do you really think the differentiating factor will be the ability to edit Word documents in the official Word application? For the general consumer, absolutely not. It actually leads to another questions : if MS indeed intends to make a 7-8" Surface tablet, what place does the Surface 2 have? The Surface 2 seems to be in the middle, with no target audience.
To sum up my feelings, if MS does intend to make a 7-8" Surface tablet, then I think not only is the Surface 2 overpriced, but it has no market. It absolutely can't compete with the iPad at that price point. Very few general consumers care about editing Word documents for work on their tablet. They want to watch movies, read, play the latest games, etc. If MS doesn't intend to make a 7-8" Surface tablet, then I think the Surface 2 is overpriced by at least $150.
I think the Surface 2 needs to be priced much lower, simply as a vehicle to get people using Windows 8 by choice. My opinion on the 32gb Surface 2 is the same as the 32 gb Surface RT: there is no place for it in the market, simply due to the lack of storage. My father purchased one and was immediately turned off by this fact alone. Yes, you can purchase an expandable memory stick. And yes, 8.1 brings much better management of the expanded memory, but why should the consumer have to do this? So, my opinion is that the 64gb Surface 2, at $549, or the 32gb Surface 2 with memory stick at roughly $500, are both overpriced. Add the Touch or Type Cover, which anyone who sees a Surface associate with it because of the marketing images. and you are really getting up there in price. Add this to the fact that the Surface 2 is so limited in comparison to the iPad, and you have a tough sell. Yes, you get office on the Surface 2. When someone walks into a Best Buy to purchase a tablet, do you really think the differentiating factor will be the ability to edit Word documents in the official Word application? For the general consumer, absolutely not. It actually leads to another questions : if MS indeed intends to make a 7-8" Surface tablet, what place does the Surface 2 have? The Surface 2 seems to be in the middle, with no target audience.
To sum up my feelings, if MS does intend to make a 7-8" Surface tablet, then I think not only is the Surface 2 overpriced, but it has no market. It absolutely can't compete with the iPad at that price point. Very few general consumers care about editing Word documents for work on their tablet. They want to watch movies, read, play the latest games, etc. If MS doesn't intend to make a 7-8" Surface tablet, then I think the Surface 2 is overpriced by at least $150.
Adretheon
New member
That's true, but they want you to buy a Surface so that they get more that just a percent of the revenue. If you buy a Surface, most of(if not all) the money goes to Microsoft, but if you buy an Asus then only the OEM % goes to them. Which isn't nearly as much. They want the Surface to succeed on that same level, sure they're fine if they don't, but it's always best to be ahead.
The people that aren't us are looking at the price in comparison to an Asus(or w/e), and with the price of the Pro being 899(plus the cost of the keyboard) consumers find it smarter to go the other way. And MS needs to find a way to fix that. Why didn't MS make a smaller version of the Surface? Like the Ipad mini? An affordable 7inch tablet, that a lot of people would use as a gateway to a larger device. There's a lot of people that would pay 500-600 for a smaller less powerful Pro, me included. Or even 200-300 for a smaller RT.
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