09-29-2013 09:16 PM
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  1. azcruz's Avatar
    This? :)





    Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk
    Attached Thumbnails wp_20130925_004.jpg  
    09-25-2013 08:37 PM
  2. crash1989's Avatar
    09-25-2013 09:48 PM
  3. azcruz's Avatar
    As far as build and feel is concerned, no contest with even just the Surface RT.

    The Sony slider Duo 11 is also present last night. After tinkering with it, I won't buy it.
    crash1989 likes this.
    09-25-2013 10:05 PM
  4. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    The Surface RT is excellent in terms of build quality and aesthetics. The thing is rock solid, looks and feels like a premium device, and is smartly designed on the whole. Although underneath all that it is good but ultimately compromised piece of hardware.

    Still, it shows the advantages of controlling your own OS and supply chain. OEMs have to compromise wherever they are able just to turn a profit. And it's only getting harder for them lately as laptops are going out of favor and they clamor to hold onto market share. It's been good for those of us still looking for laptops though as there are a number of low cost, high quality options out there at the moment.
    09-25-2013 10:17 PM
  5. AngryNil's Avatar
    I absolutely agree on hardware and software support. While it's certainly not unparalleled on internals, as an overall hardware package it's great. Microsoft always has to compete against unrealistic expectations of nailing absolutely everything, because they owned the old PC market. The build quality is legit, unlike the regular crap that gets pumped out at the lower price points which Microsoft is expected to reach. And tech blogs rather report on poor sales, than talk about the monthly firmware updates which not many in the industry are doing. Guess which would matter more to the end user? Yeah.

    But I have to disagree on the app store optimism. The quality is abysmal and it is the largest thorn in the side of Windows tablets. On Windows Phone, we have quite a few official apps, and where we don't, there are these hotshot apps and developers we love to hold up for creating fantastic clients. Windows has none of that, and Microsoft either needs to consolidate the two stores ASAP, or start negotiating with (i.e. handing out money to) major developers like they are doing with Windows Phone.

    Fact is, I can't replace an iPad with a Surface 2 and call it an upgrade. That's not because of Windows 8/RT, that's not because the hardware sucks, it's not because there's no support. It's because Microsoft's offering cannot hold a candle up to the iOS app store, plain and simple.
    09-26-2013 06:29 AM
  6. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    In fact, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that Windows Phone has a superior app market when compared to Windows RT.
    Exactly. The apps in the Windows store are not only far fewer, but far more inferior to that of Windows Phone. Sure they have over 100K apps but many of them are very poor quality. And Microsoft, in the interest of getting numbers has allowed really pathetic apps in the store. Example: a new game called Cave Master. Install it and play this drivel. It should have never passed MS QA/QC.

    The MS store is the only weakness in having my Surface Pro, imo.
    Last edited by jlzimmerman; 09-26-2013 at 07:34 AM.
    09-26-2013 07:19 AM
  7. azcruz's Avatar
    Ditto. Just imagine how many Facebook and YouTube wannabes are in the store. Good thing they don't matter to me.



    Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk
    09-26-2013 07:23 AM
  8. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    So they spend most of the article trashing Surface 2 based on Surface 1 facts, figures, and statements. Figures.


    From the article:
    Yes, the Surface 2 may run "100,000" apps available in the Windows Store, but if you purchased a new x86 copy of Photoshop even a year or two ago, it won't run on this device.
    It's a consumption tablet, not a productivity tablet. THE IPAD CAN'T RUN PHOTOSHOP EITHER YOU MORONS BUT YOU POINT THIS OUT DO YOU?
    rav16 likes this.
    09-26-2013 07:33 AM
  9. HeyCori's Avatar
    So they spend most of the article trashing Surface 2 based on Surface 1 facts, figures, and statements. Figures.


    From the article:
    It's a consumption tablet, not a productivity tablet. THE IPAD CAN'T RUN PHOTOSHOP EITHER YOU MORONS BUT YOU POINT THIS OUT DO YOU?
    Are there really that many people that want to do high-end graphical work on a 10 inch screen? I just don't see that many professionals looking to ditch their already powerful laptops for 10 inch tablets. I know Microsoft demoed R.E.D. video footage on the Surface Pro 2 to showcase its ability to process 6K data in real time. And legitimately, that's extremely useful for people working on set. But realistically, any movie director/editor is going to take that footage back to their actual workstation and edit the footage on a computer that costs way more than a Surface Pro 2. Portable x86 apps have their uses and the Surface Pro 2 is an extremely useful product, but tech pundits have a tendency to get wrapped in their own world.
    rav16 likes this.
    09-26-2013 07:57 AM
  10. Jazmac's Avatar
    Yes, that Engadget piece is awful trash, more than likely pre-written before the Surface 2 release and poised for attack.
    Some bloggers on Engadget are among the most technically dishonest in tech. Most paid by google to create misinformation on anything that isn't android and sometimes IOS. Even that support of IOS on Engadget is waning.
    rav16 likes this.
    09-26-2013 08:46 AM
  11. Jazmac's Avatar
    Even the battery in this got a 9. Awesome.
    09-26-2013 08:59 AM
  12. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    All of this is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. They could produce the most magical device, one that cures cancer while using it, but it will be DOA.

    I'm speaking here as a C++ Windows ISV. The Metro Shell and its associated framework (the WinRT API) are a disaster ... and I doubt that MSFT will be able to recover from it. MSFT already had a *huge* ecosystem based on the Win32 API (now derisively referred to as the "legacy Desktop API" by MSFT personnel). They could have added a scalable UI API to Win32 and made it available (as a redistributable or via a SP) to the huge existing Win7 base. ISVs would have jumped on the new framework because would have solved two difficult problems at one time, high DPI and touch, while maintaining complete compatibility will existing non-UI code.

    But no, MSFT had to waste years creating an entirely new framework (WinRT API) and suffer through all its growing pains (the inevitable bugs in a 1.00 product, horrible performance, etc.). Existing non-UI C++ code has to be rewritten due to compiler limitations, framework limitations, etc. They added an unbelievably stupid Async app model when Win32 already had the best multithreading support in any major OS.

    Again, this is from a C++ developer's viewpoint (I don't care what MSFT does with .NET, C#, etc.). They f***ed up the core API and will end up regretting it.
    09-26-2013 09:20 AM
  13. techiez's Avatar
    I think money is more a factor than anything else. Microsoft can afford to take a loss on RT, just like they did for years with Xbox until it made profits.

    Blackberry didn't have the money to continue taking losses. That's why they're getting bought out.
    MS cud hv avoided bad press if they had handled wp7.8 better, they had money n resources for tht, but they decided to save some bucks n earn bad press.
    MS might be on same path with RT, no body wud know if they r eventually working in background to bring WP8 to tablets n scrap RT leaving the users red faced again
    09-26-2013 11:21 AM
  14. grant.palin's Avatar
    I`ve had a Blackberry Playbook for two years. Still works for me, despite the recent news. However, if I didn`t have that, the Surface 2 would be my next choice. I don`t know why, but I do like the Win8 UI, despite some oddities - such as desktop mode on a tablet. As it is I`m still in uni so can`t justify spending the money right now. But I`ll be watching :) The rumblings about unifying WinPhone and Surface RT sound good to me, seem like they will simplify the Microsoft landscape a little bit.
    09-26-2013 02:20 PM
  15. dkediger's Avatar
    All of this is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. ....
    Again, this is from a C++ developer's viewpoint (I don't care what MSFT does with .NET, C#, etc.). They f***ed up the core API and will end up regretting it.
    That's a nice, honest opinion. What's your take on this piece: Turning to the past to power Windows’ future: An in-depth look at WinRT | Ars Technica The writer pretty unequivocally puts WinRT as the new future of MS dev. Although he covers MS for ArsTechnica, he generally doesn't cut them any slack either.
    09-26-2013 03:33 PM
  16. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    Yeah i get what you're saying, Microsoft just needs to really focus and never EVER make another dancing commercial again :D
    Or that awful "feels like I am just too close to love you" Explorer commercial over and over. They play the same crap till you want to throw rocks at things. Microsoft could learn a thing or two from Geico.
    09-26-2013 04:31 PM
  17. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    That's a nice, honest opinion. What's your take on this piece: Turning to the past to power Windows’ future: An in-depth look at WinRT | Ars Technica The writer pretty unequivocally puts WinRT as the new future of MS dev. Although he covers MS for ArsTechnica, he generally doesn't cut them any slack either.
    My take: MSFT is cutting its own throat ... publicly. It's inexplicable. If they don't abandon the WinRT API and framework effort, within five years they will retreat into the "enterprise-only" market, meaning they are dead meat (like RIMM/BlackBerry).

    Note: I put my money where my mouth is and have recently sold half the MSFT shares I've had since 1989. I also have a WP8 app in the market, so I've actually created a full XAML/Direct3D/C++ program with the WinRT API.
    09-26-2013 04:31 PM
  18. juanitoriv's Avatar
    Exactly. The apps in the Windows store are not only far fewer, but far more inferior to that of Windows Phone. Sure they have over 100K apps but many of them are very poor quality. And Microsoft, in the interest of getting numbers has allowed really pathetic apps in the store. Example: a new game called Cave Master. Install it and play this drivel. It should have never passed MS QA/QC.

    The MS store is the only weakness in having my Surface Pro, imo.
    I can understand your argument for the Surface RT/2, but the Pro runs actual programs, not just apps..
    Last edited by juanitoriv; 09-28-2013 at 10:54 AM.
    09-26-2013 04:47 PM
  19. juanitoriv's Avatar
    Ahh no.
    It is interesting how people have this idea that android automatically means success based on free NSA-ware. The only dev making big money with android is Samsung. HTC? Fail. LG? fail. Motorola? Fail. The others? Not so much.
    The funny thing is that Google who owns Android, also owns Motorola..
    09-26-2013 04:51 PM
  20. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    While making Windows RT into little more than an Android skin may sound nice on paper, I don't really think it makes any sense for Microsoft to do that. Windows is more than a UI, it is a platform for pushing Microsoft's services. Getting you using Office, SkyDrive, Bing, Xbox, etc. is key for Microsoft and there is no place where they can be integrated more seamlessly than in Windows. Now of course this could also be accomplished in Android, but it probably wouldn't perform as well as something developed from the ground up by Microsoft for the specific hardware it is installed o as is the case with Windows RT. It also would create a weird divide between x86 Windows and Win RT as they would essntially be entirely different OSs at that point.

    In addition to that, using the Google Play store means a couple of things. Firstly, Microsoft can't profit off of it in the same way that they can from their own store. Secondly, it means that they have no quality control and malware is a possibility. And thirdly, it would mean that Metro would effectively serve no purpose as the vast majority of apps would never bother conforming to it's design language or use it's APIs. In effect, Surface would just become another Android tablet.

    Now of course Microsoft could have it's own app Store like Amazon does, but then that puts us back in the same boat and they'd be better off going they same route they are going now at that point.

    Besides, x86 Windows is not dead- not on desktops and not on tablets. We've got several Bay Trail tablets coming this year that will perfeorm fairly well, have great battery life and still run all your old apps. So if Windows RT has no future then it is not the end of the world.

    But I think over time the situation is going to improve considerably. It may never outpace Android, but it doesn't need to to be successful.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-26-2013 05:14 PM
  21. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    If they don't abandon the WinRT API and framework effort, within five years they will retreat into the "enterprise-only" market....
    Why do you draw this conclusion?
    09-27-2013 08:38 AM
  22. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    I don't think it's a foregone conclusion, but I can see where he's coming from. Windows RT has been an absolute flop so far, Windows in general has a perception problem and the ecosystem is just not there right now, and the situation is not improving quickly. On top of all of that, consumers are consfused by Windows RT- they don't understand what it is or why it's different.

    Microsoft has a lot of work to do if they want Windows RT to become profitable. They will likely have to sink more money into it than they can make back in the next five years just to get some momentum in the market.
    09-27-2013 09:02 AM
  23. dkediger's Avatar
    Its gonna be important to make a distinction between "Windows RT" - the Surface RT OS - and "WinRT" which is a programming/presentation system at the nexus () of Microsoft's current developer tools.
    azcruz likes this.
    09-27-2013 10:34 AM
  24. ctitanic's Avatar
    The press is using Macs since long time ago so what else can you expect from them. To me the Surface 2 fixed the few weaknesses that the RT had. What I predict that is going to happens probably before Christmas? Better games will appear to prove the possibilities of the new generation. ;-)
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
    09-29-2013 09:05 PM
  25. denzilla's Avatar
    I hate to be pesimistic, but I look at RT and see WP7 all over again. They're already suggesting that WP and RT are going to merge and have a single app store at some point. It what should've been in the first place.

    Microsoft engineers will be interviewed down the road, once everything is complete and the interviewer will ask them why current Surface tablets didn't get upgraded to the new combined OS, one of them will smuggly reply " What we have now was our vision all along. We knew we couldn't have everything in the beginning, but we had to get something to market asap".
    WillysJeepMan likes this.
    09-29-2013 09:16 PM
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