09-29-2013 09:16 PM
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  1. HeyCori's Avatar
    So no one believes in Windows RT. It’s true. OEMs don’t. Consumers don’t. I don’t either. So why am I looking forward to the Surface 2? For two reasons, because Microsoft still believes in Windows RT and because I believe in buying the product that’s right for me.

    OEM support for Windows RT is, as we all know, lukewarm. Some OEMs have sworn off RT while others are still in question. In fact, the only new RT tablet coming out this fall that we actually know about is the Surface 2. There’s also the rumored Nokia “Sirius” tablet but that’s only two tablets versus a flood of Windows 8 tablets that are coming out this year and next. And it’s looking like Windows 8 tablets will offer similar prices, though I expect many will offer last gen hardware in order to reach lower price points (e.g. the Acer Iconia W3 that is currently $279 at Staples).

    So it will appear that the Surface 2 is already DOA, right? Perhaps, but that’s not how Microsoft sees it. The Surface 2 is an amazing piece of hardware. Tegra 4, 1080p screen, new camera tech, 4GB RAM, USB 3.0 and a sleek chassis. That’s not the sort of hardware you expect from a DOA tablet. Once again Microsoft is taking the hard road and sticking to it. I remember the last product Microsoft tried that with. It’s called Windows Phone; a market loser that Microsoft is (very) slowly turning into a powerhouse. In fact, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that Windows Phone has a superior app market when compared to Windows RT.

    Microsoft giving their full support is one of the reasons why I’m confident in buying Windows RT again (I currently own a Surface RT). I believe Microsoft will find a way to carve out a niche for Windows RT. Despite Windows RT sales being close to non-existent, Windows RT apps continue to hit the store. That’s because Microsoft made the brilliant move to combine the Windows 8 and RT app store. Even better, they made it easy(ish) for developers to recompile their Windows 8 apps for ARM. That’s very good for Windows RT. Sales may be poor but apps continue to come.

    Personally, I believe the “year of RT” is still a ways off. More OEMs won’t give their full-fledged support for RT until they can hit lower price points. Plus consumers won’t fully accept Windows RT until the app selection improves and RT tablets are significantly cheaper than their Windows 8 counterparts. So like I said, I think it’s going to be a while before RT really takes off, assuming it ever takes off. However, I believe in buying the product that’s right for me and thus far Windows RT appears to be that product.

    I’ve been using Windows RT 8.1 since release and I can pretty confidently say that I don’t miss Windows 8 on a day-to-day basis. I have a Windows 8 Pro computer for legacy apps but most days I don’t even turn it on. RT 8.1 is fast, more streamlined, energy efficient, full Office, great peripheral support and doesn’t offer the same headaches of regular computers. Throw in Tegra 4 and devs can actually start making graphically intense RT games. It’s exactly what I need, I just think it’s going to take a long time for RT to gain any market share.

    So that’s the curious case of the Surface 2. A tablet that looks DOA that somehow still has great hardware, an ever increasing app store and software support for years to come.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 09-24-2013 at 08:42 PM.
    09-24-2013 08:26 PM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    So no one believes in Windows RT. It’s true. OEMs don’t. Consumers don’t. I don’t either. So why am I looking forward to the Surface 2? For two reasons, because Microsoft still believes in Windows RT and because I believe in buying the product that’s right for me.
    I agree with your second statement in the last sentence; however, I disagree with your first statement.

    I always buy a product if I believe it is right for me. However, I never buy a product simply because a certain company believes in it. There is no company that will convince me I need something just because they happen to like it. Yes, they can use their marketing skills to try to sell me a product, but I won't support any company's products unless I am convinced those products are best for me.
    theefman likes this.
    09-24-2013 08:41 PM
  3. azcruz's Avatar
    I am in favor of OEM abandonment of Windows RT. Microsoft can own this niche and execute their plans.

    I pre-ordered my Surface RT in Australia, and I'm doing it again for the Surface 2.
    09-24-2013 08:43 PM
  4. HeyCori's Avatar
    I agree with your second statement in the last sentence; however, I disagree with your first statement.

    I always buy a product if I believe it is right for me. However, I never buy a product simply because a certain company believes in it. There is no company that will convince me I need something just because they happen to like it. Yes, they can use their marketing skills to try to sell me a product, but I won't support any company's products unless I am convinced those products are best for me.
    [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    True. For example, BlackBerry touted the greatness of the PlayBook but dropped support because of poor sales. BlackBerry claims that for technical reasons the PlayBook will never get BB10. I'm guessing it's actually a "not worth our time and effort" reason. Microsoft seems to be doing the complete opposite. There's such a huge difference between year-1 PlayBook and year-1 Surface RT. MS took a $900 million dollar write-down and gained little OEM support, but instead of killing RT Microsoft releases a massive software update, improves the hardware and creates a slew of new accessories. And while apps are slowly coming, they're still coming. It makes me a lot more confident to buy another RT tablet.
    09-24-2013 09:03 PM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    True. For example, BlackBerry touted the greatness of the PlayBook but dropped support because of poor sales. BlackBerry claims that for technical reasons the PlayBook will never get BB10. I'm guessing it's actually a "not worth our time and effort" reason. Microsoft seems to be doing the complete opposite. There's such a huge difference between year-1 PlayBook and year-1 Surface RT. MS took a $900 million dollar write-down and gained little OEM support, but instead of killing RT Microsoft releases a massive software update, improves the hardware and creates a slew of new accessories. And while apps are slowly coming, they're still coming. It makes me a lot more confident to buy another RT tablet.
    I think money is more a factor than anything else. Microsoft can afford to take a loss on RT, just like they did for years with Xbox until it made profits.

    Blackberry didn't have the money to continue taking losses. That's why they're getting bought out.
    rdubmu, HeyCori and theefman like this.
    09-24-2013 09:14 PM
  6. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    I like Surface 2 and plan to get it. So many online publications are trying to create bad spin now, but yes, Microsoft can move ahead, innovate, and gain the right kind of attention. They might even have decent plans for the phone OS.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-24-2013 09:30 PM
  7. crash1989's Avatar
    I agree, Microsoft should stick with RT. I yearn for the day when Windows Phone and Windows RT merge and there is office touch and lot more apps. I like where they are headed.

    Also I just saw these two videos in a thread and I could not believe that RT was so flexible. I thought it was competing with iPad on features, but this is ahead. The only thing holding back are the app support. (Does iPad have airplay too?)



    Jazmac, rav16, Daylife and 2 others like this.
    09-24-2013 10:12 PM
  8. crash1989's Avatar
    I like Surface 2 and plan to get it. So many online publications are trying to create bad spin now, but yes, Microsoft can move ahead, innovate, and gain the right kind of attention. They might even have decent plans for the phone OS.
    You bet they are going to jump on it for good traffic. I find the link below doesn't make sense .. "if you buy Photoshop license for two years on a desktop windows then you cannot use it on Surface 2" .
    The sense I get from this is I buy an iPad my life will be rosy and I can run all the software I want but surface 2 is bad because of this. WTF ..

    They have facts, quotes and loss figures which sadly they use it to degrade the product completely , I don't know if they mean it and why they have a problem using it as a productive "tablet".

    Microsoft's Surface 2: New tablet, same problems
    aldovelco and rav16 like this.
    09-25-2013 01:57 AM
  9. azcruz's Avatar
    I have accepted that it's different today, so as long as a company makes the product I want/need, like the Surface 2 or Pro 2, I will buy it. I don't care what these people say, what they're preaching, as they don't drive my life, my world. If Surface line dies on January 2014 after I have bought mine, then fine.
    HeyCori and rav16 like this.
    09-25-2013 03:12 AM
  10. martinmc78's Avatar
    I agree, Microsoft should stick with RT. I yearn for the day when Windows Phone and Windows RT merge and there is office touch and lot more apps. I like where they are headed.

    Also I just saw these two videos in a thread and I could not believe that RT was so flexible. I thought it was competing with iPad on features, but this is ahead. The only thing holding back are the app support. (Does iPad have airplay too?)



    Those videos are great and show off a lot of features that the reviews miss. Its a shame people doing the reviews don't spend enough time with the devices and instantly write them off because there "isn't an app for that"
    Jazmac, Daylife and rav16 like this.
    09-25-2013 03:59 AM
  11. crash1989's Avatar
    I have accepted that it's different today, so as long as a company makes the product I want/need, like the Surface 2 or Pro 2, I will buy it. I don't care what these people say, what they're preaching, as they don't drive my life, my world. If Surface line dies on January 2014 after I have bought mine, then fine.
    if it dies there will be no more ecosystem and support with apps .. just saying :)
    09-25-2013 04:08 AM
  12. azcruz's Avatar
    I'm fine with that, there will be Ubuntu. Ha ha

    Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk
    crash1989 likes this.
    09-25-2013 07:23 AM
  13. mrpuny's Avatar
    I'm fine with that, there will be Ubuntu. Ha ha

    Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk
    Was that sarcasm or has someone actually been able to work around the secure boot feature and install an alternate OS on the Surface RT?
    09-25-2013 12:06 PM
  14. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    You bet they are going to jump on it for good traffic. I find the link below doesn't make sense ...
    Microsoft's Surface 2: New tablet, same problems
    Yes, that Engadget piece is awful trash, more than likely pre-written before the Surface 2 release and poised for attack.
    09-25-2013 01:20 PM
  15. Daylife's Avatar
    Im glad OEMs dropped RT, all they did was make the OS look bad and they made garbage tablets, Microsoft needs to embrace RT for themselves....Kind of how Apples is the only one that makes the hardware and software.
    azcruz and Vallos like this.
    09-25-2013 03:55 PM
  16. azcruz's Avatar
    Was that sarcasm or has someone actually been able to work around the secure boot feature and install an alternate OS on the Surface RT?
    Maybe by that time, perhaps yes.

    Sent from my LT25i using Tapatalk 4
    09-25-2013 05:08 PM
  17. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    It is only DOA because of perception. Perception is everything.

    I cannot believe what I've seen browsing through various news sites' coverage of the Surface event. They are completely biased against it. I mean, there are plenty of things they could point out that are completely fair. It is an evolutionary update, and yes, the Surface RT didn't do so well (and had some noticeable shortcomings). But the problems of the previous generation are no reason to write off Surface 2. Every change made addresses a weakness of the original model. This product has not just been upgraded, it's matured.

    The second thing I see is that people don't get the form factor, or Windows RT. They complain it's not designed like other tablets but also complain that it doesn't run Windows apps as if those things make the device bad. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of what Surface is, what it does and why.
    09-25-2013 05:35 PM
  18. ohgood's Avatar
    So no one believes in Windows RT. It’s true. OEMs don’t. Consumers don’t. I don’t either. So why am I looking forward to the Surface 2? For two reasons, because Microsoft still believes in Windows RT and because I believe in buying the product that’s right for me.

    ....


    So that’s the curious case of the Surface 2. A tablet that looks DOA that somehow still has great hardware, an ever increasing app store and software support for years to come.



    that first part, i'm not sure why they're building an RT 2.0 either.




    second part, if it's the pro version, the only reason i can see folks don't want to buy it is the form factor. is anyone buying (besides the ipad 10") a tablet in that size range ? seems like a 7" pro would be the place to be looking.
    09-25-2013 06:50 PM
  19. mrpuny's Avatar
    Im glad OEMs dropped RT, all they did was make the OS look bad and they made garbage tablets, Microsoft needs to embrace RT for themselves....Kind of how Apples is the only one that makes the hardware and software.
    Well, it appears Dell will be coming out with a 2nd gen RT tablet as well, so they're not all gone. (Well, Nokia, too, but unless the deal doesn't go through, they'll be Microsoft as well eventually...)

    In a way, I'd like to see Microsoft keep RT for themselves, too. The thing is, though, that if they did so (or if it happened just by all the OEMs dropping RT), then they'd have to really focus and go all-in with developing and pushing the systems. There wouldn't be 3rd parties to hinder, but there wouldn't be 3rd parties to help (by trying different form factors or pricepoints) either.
    09-25-2013 07:04 PM
  20. Daylife's Avatar
    Well, it appears Dell will be coming out with a 2nd gen RT tablet as well, so they're not all gone. (Well, Nokia, too, but unless the deal doesn't go through, they'll be Microsoft as well eventually...)

    In a way, I'd like to see Microsoft keep RT for themselves, too. The thing is, though, that if they did so (or if it happened just by all the OEMs dropping RT), then they'd have to really focus and go all-in with developing and pushing the systems. There wouldn't be 3rd parties to hinder, but there wouldn't be 3rd parties to help (by trying different form factors or pricepoints) either.

    Yeah i get what you're saying, Microsoft just needs to really focus and never EVER make another dancing commercial again :D
    09-25-2013 07:17 PM
  21. spaulagain's Avatar
    I love the Surface 2, it seems to have hit all the critical weak spots of the first one (power, screen resolution, etc.). I plan on replacing my RT with the 2.

    I also think if MS prices the Surface Mini right, then RT can have a good rise.

    OEMs suck. They always have. Only now are they starting to get the hint. Their hardware design and quality has to improve drastically.

    Microsoft and Vizio are the only ones who have pulled off hardware on par or better than Apple.
    rav16 likes this.
    09-25-2013 07:24 PM
  22. mrpuny's Avatar
    It is only DOA because of perception. Perception is everything.

    I cannot believe what I've seen browsing through various news sites' coverage of the Surface event. They are completely biased against it. I mean, there are plenty of things they could point out that are completely fair. It is an evolutionary update, and yes, the Surface RT didn't do so well (and had some noticeable shortcomings). But the problems of the previous generation are no reason to write off Surface 2. Every change made addresses a weakness of the original model. This product has not just been upgraded, it's matured.

    The second thing I see is that people don't get the form factor, or Windows RT. They complain it's not designed like other tablets but also complain that it doesn't run Windows apps as if those things make the device bad. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of what Surface is, what it does and why.
    Has there been even one major media outlet that has had a positive response to the Surface announcement? That's got to be the oddest part; it feels to me almost like Apple back in the '90s where everyone was down on them. Granted, Microsoft is still making a ton of money, but that's in large part to their enterprise business. Consumer initiatives aren't doing so well right now. Is Microsoft working to build relationships with any of the media? They need some help trying to get their message out. For all the reputation Steve Jobs had for being adversarial with the press, he knew how to play them. When he died, people like David Pogue and Walt Mossberg talked about how when Steve came back to Apple in the dark days, he'd frequently call them to talk about the company and debate articles they had written. No doubt that sort of thing helped shape more positive reporting later on. Microsoft in contrast doesn't seem to have much in the way of high-level relationships with anyone in the media, even among the PC and Windows-centric personalities like Thurrot and Mary Jo.
    rav16 likes this.
    09-25-2013 07:29 PM
  23. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    I'd say that Asus and Lenovo both have great hardware designs, and more recently HP as well. Although I don't know if anyone actually surpasses Apple. They make some beautiful machines that are plenty functional. Although I'd say Surface 2 is one amazing machine too
    09-25-2013 07:33 PM
  24. SwimSwim's Avatar
    This post changed my viewpoint. As soon as you mentioned Windows Phone, my perspective changed. Very valid points.

    I think I'm still going to stick with the Pro, simply because I'm going to use it to act as a full replacement to my laptop and as a tablet. And while I don't use legacy apps incredibly often, I think it's enough that I'd miss them. Besides, another reason I want the Pro over the RT model is because of that awesome pen Microsoft made. Me, want...

    Sigh, curse my snobby tastes in technology! I'd like to get an RT model, simply due to the lower cost. Oh well, I've talked to some people on other tech sites about it, and I'm fairly convinced to go the Pro route. All or nothing, I suppose. :P

    Anyways, digression over, sorry for wandering off topic there. Again, you've convinced me pushing RT. Windows Phone 7 didn't see much success, but with the later iteration of Windows Phone 8, we're now the fastest growing mobile OS in the world, especially with the low end Lumia 520 kicking *** in many markets. Who knows, maybe Nokia's low end expertise will lead to a very low cost Surface tablet after the acquisition next year, the Kindle Fire of the Windows RT world.

    All very exciting stuff, and I'll back Microsoft in their valiant campaign with Windows RT. Full speed ahead!
    HeyCori likes this.
    09-25-2013 08:03 PM
  25. crash1989's Avatar
    I love the Surface 2, it seems to have hit all the critical weak spots of the first one (power, screen resolution, etc.). I plan on replacing my RT with the 2.

    I also think if MS prices the Surface Mini right, then RT can have a good rise.

    OEMs suck. They always have. Only now are they starting to get the hint. Their hardware design and quality has to improve drastically.

    Microsoft and Vizio are the only ones who have pulled off hardware on par or better than Apple.
    Acer showed their design mettle with the Acer Aspire S7

    Lenovo with their Thinkpad Carbon. I feel that OEMs can design well and their second gen devices are much improved form gen 1
    09-25-2013 08:19 PM
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