10-03-2013 10:20 PM
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  1. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Yeah, the ultrabook market has been consumed by the tablet market and Macbook Air (which pretty much created the category in the first place). So honestly, the Surface Pro selling 9x as its competitors doesn't sound like much of a stretch.
    In the immortal words of the friends of Charlie the unicorn, "Shun the non-believer... shuuuuuuuunn! shuuuunnnnnn-ah"

    10-02-2013 06:26 PM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    How big is the ultrabook market? The main drivers of PC sales are still cheaper devices in the $299 to $699 range, are they not? Many PC users looking for high-end Windows laptops decided to buy a Mac and load up Windows on it... From that you have this highly concentrated pool of Windows fans who will prefer to have their high-end Windows experience on a non-Mac device, and of all the options available, why wouldn't a Microsoft device be preferred over Acer, Asus, etc? It wouldn't surprise me if those OEM ultrabooks got slaughtered by the Surface Pro.
    That makes NO sense. Why would you go pay the apple premium for a Mac, then pay for Windows on top of it? You're paying SO MUCH EXTRA that it's illogical.

    Also, there's plenty of reasoning why I'd take a laptop over a Surface Pro. The main thing is that the Pro's still a tablet. The keyboard is very cramped as a result. I'd opt for a full-on laptop instead, especially since it saves you on the premium cost for that form factor, and you have more options for screen size.
    10-02-2013 08:59 PM
  3. someoneinwa's Avatar
    I work with a dozen folks or so who use Macs and run Windows on them. I think it's nuts, but hey, I'm all about choice. As to Panay's sales claim, I don't know specifically where the number came from but there are any number of ways Microsoft could gather that data: from license data from OEMs, from sales information from their own on-line and physical stores, from sales information from their Best Buy stores (admittedly rather new, but still a source) and there are probably a few other places I haven't thought of. With this data in hand, you do some extrapolating and come up with his 12X figure. There is also this: I've talked with some other theoretically well placed Microsoft employees and Panay's information is consistent with those comments, if a bit more specific. Other than asking these Microsoft employees, my only other frame of reference regarding the popularity of the Pro is that I actually see Surface Pros in use in the wild.
    10-02-2013 10:58 PM
  4. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I work with a dozen folks or so who use Macs and run Windows on them. I think it's nuts, but hey, I'm all about choice. As to Panay's sales claim, I don't know specifically where the number came from but there are any number of ways Microsoft could gather that data: from license data from OEMs, from sales information from their own on-line and physical stores, from sales information from their Best Buy stores (admittedly rather new, but still a source) and there are probably a few other places I haven't thought of. With this data in hand, you do some extrapolating and come up with his 12X figure. There is also this: I've talked with some other theoretically well placed Microsoft employees and Panay's information is consistent with those comments, if a bit more specific. Other than asking these Microsoft employees, my only other frame of reference regarding the popularity of the Pro is that I actually see Surface Pros in use in the wild.
    It is perhaps a bit whacko, but like you say, choice is always nice. Besides, you have to admit, those Macbook Airs have wonderful design and build quality, plus great battery life since Haswell. Only thing not to love about those (besides the fruity company that makes it), is the OS is runs. But a Macbook Air on Windows 8? Pretty neat combo (too bad no touchscreens...).

    Of course, at those prices, I'd just find similar product that natively runes Windows and has a touch screen. Still, it's not as insane as some might think and at the end of the day, it increases the Windows market share, doesn't it?
    10-02-2013 11:10 PM
  5. mutant 9's Avatar
    Thinking about attending the Chicago event...
    10-02-2013 11:16 PM
  6. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    It is perhaps a bit whacko, but like you say, choice is always nice. Besides, you have to admit, those Macbook Airs have wonderful design and build quality, plus great battery life since Haswell. Only thing not to love about those (besides the fruity company that makes it), is the OS is runs. But a Macbook Air on Windows 8? Pretty neat combo (too bad no touchscreens...).

    Of course, at those prices, I'd just find similar product that natively runes Windows and has a touch screen. Still, it's not as insane as some might think and at the end of the day, it increases the Windows market share, doesn't it?
    Ehh, I find light-colored metal less attractive than the darker stuff. I like the dark color of my sister's Zune HD 16 over the lighter 32-GB version I have. It's just my personal preference, but I typically like the darker coloring on my tech devices. I've never used a Mac, so I can't speak to build quality, but the appearance is "blech" to me. I am pretty sure this is the laptop my dad got my stepmom. That's more of the preferred coloring scheme I like.
    10-02-2013 11:37 PM
  7. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Yeah, the ultrabook market has been consumed by the tablet market and Macbook Air (which pretty much created the category in the first place). So honestly, the Surface Pro selling 9x as its competitors doesn't sound like much of a stretch.
    No way, ultra books and the like have been around since the mid 1990's-2000's. Maybe Apple made them more popular but they never created the category. This is of course not to be confused with Intel's brand.

    An example: Sharp Actius MM10 1GHz Crusoe Notebook - PCSTATS.com
    10-03-2013 12:13 AM
  8. dkp23's Avatar
    Wonder y they overpriced this thing
    10-03-2013 12:28 AM
  9. bilzkh's Avatar
    That makes NO sense. Why would you go pay the apple premium for a Mac, then pay for Windows on top of it? You're paying SO MUCH EXTRA that it's illogical.

    Also, there's plenty of reasoning why I'd take a laptop over a Surface Pro. The main thing is that the Pro's still a tablet. The keyboard is very cramped as a result. I'd opt for a full-on laptop instead, especially since it saves you on the premium cost for that form factor, and you have more options for screen size.
    I know it makes no sense, but look at the world we live in. Go around and ask 'pros', you'll find a bunch telling you to buy a Mac and put Windows on it. The rationale is that Mac offers the best hardware quality out there.
    10-03-2013 02:57 AM
  10. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I know it makes no sense, but look at the world we live in. Go around and ask 'pros', you'll find a bunch telling you to buy a Mac and put Windows on it. The rationale is that Mac offers the best hardware quality out there.
    I would definitely not say the best, especially as it costs a lot more than similarly priced and spec'd ultrabooks. However, still pretty darn good, so while I'd never do it, the concept of wanting Windows on a Macbook doesn't seem entirely foreign to me either.
    10-03-2013 05:41 AM
  11. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I know it makes no sense, but look at the world we live in. Go around and ask 'pros', you'll find a bunch telling you to buy a Mac and put Windows on it. The rationale is that Mac offers the best hardware quality out there.
    I don't really find build quality to be an issue with stuff too much. You have to buy total garbage or be highly irresponsible for it to come into play, in most instances, I think. The stuff INSIDE the Macs is just the same stuff you find in PCs though, so the only REAL advantage you would find from a PC ot a Mac is if you have a preference of OSX. I don't see the Mac's chassis as something I'm drawn to, so I disagree that it makes sense to pay a premium for it, then pay $100+ for a different OS.
    10-03-2013 02:40 PM
  12. rchillin's Avatar
    If you would, please tell them to include back lighting in the power cover or perhaps why the decision to not upgrade the Pro 2's camera like they did with Surface 2.
    I think I red in the reddit AMA (or somewhere) that the reason for not having backlighting on the power cover was to maximize battery life. And when you think about that, really makes sense. Shame though because I'm debating on whether $200 investment in a power cover is worth it or just get a nice type 2 cover with a car charger. Now that accessory is what's cool to me.
    10-03-2013 03:46 PM
  13. jhoff80's Avatar
    Java would be amazing. Perhaps in a similar function to Flash, where it only runs on trusted sites?
    Flash doesn't actually work this way any more. Even on Windows RT, they switched from a whitelist model to a blacklist model months ago... so instead of only approving Flash to run on trusted sites, they instead block it from non-trustworthy sites.
    10-03-2013 04:06 PM
  14. SwimSwim's Avatar
    Flash doesn't actually work this way any more. Even on Windows RT, they switched from a whitelist model to a blacklist model months ago... so instead of only approving Flash to run on trusted sites, they instead block it from non-trustworthy sites.
    Either way, Java being implemented in a similar fashion to Flash would be very nice, and help ease the transition as we move from Win32 and browser plugins, to lightweight mobile OS's running apps and HTML 5.
    10-03-2013 06:02 PM
  15. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I don't really find build quality to be an issue with stuff too much. You have to buy total garbage or be highly irresponsible for it to come into play, in most instances, I think. The stuff INSIDE the Macs is just the same stuff you find in PCs though, so the only REAL advantage you would find from a PC ot a Mac is if you have a preference of OSX. I don't see the Mac's chassis as something I'm drawn to, so I disagree that it makes sense to pay a premium for it, then pay $100+ for a different OS.
    To each his own, and if someone has that much money to burn, let them. I'm a firm believer in choice and doing what works for you (technology wise, at least). I simply don't like people who buy a product without knowing what it does or why they ought to buy that one. Case in point, iPhone mania. People always go bat**** crazy over it, yet don't really know what it does. Look up some videos by Jimmy Kimmel, they're always a laugh.

    But as long as people can explain and justify why their purchase works with their lifestyle, I'll allow it. I'd still like them to join the MS ecosystem, but them actually having some idea of why they bought something is good enough.

    I think I red in the reddit AMA (or somewhere) that the reason for not having backlighting on the power cover was to maximize battery life. And when you think about that, really makes sense. Shame though because I'm debating on whether $200 investment in a power cover is worth it or just get a nice type 2 cover with a car charger. Now that accessory is what's cool to me.
    ------------------------
    That's a bit disappointing. I would assume backlighting will be in some way optional on the new covers (whether by a switch on the covers or via PC Settings). Backlighting would be very nice on the Power Cover, and it has extra juice to make up for the extra consumption anyways.

    Disappointing, but oh well. :/
    10-03-2013 06:09 PM
  16. Jas00555's Avatar
    That makes NO sense. Why would you go pay the apple premium for a Mac, then pay for Windows on top of it? You're paying SO MUCH EXTRA that it's illogical.

    Also, there's plenty of reasoning why I'd take a laptop over a Surface Pro. The main thing is that the Pro's still a tablet. The keyboard is very cramped as a result. I'd opt for a full-on laptop instead, especially since it saves you on the premium cost for that form factor, and you have more options for screen size.
    You also have to consider the fact that some people try to be "hip and trendy" (emphasis on try btw) by buying a Mac and they end up hating OS X, so they switch back to Windows.
    10-03-2013 08:18 PM
  17. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    You also have to consider the fact that some people try to be "hip and trendy" (emphasis on try btw) by buying a Mac and they end up hating OS X, so they switch back to Windows.
    To be fair, I know several people who have switched to Macs and loved them. I also know a few who have switched because their parents wanted them to get Macbooks for college and ended up wishing for PCs
    Anyway, I don't really see anything wrong with OSX. I personally dislike several things about it, but those are mostly matters of preference (like for example, I feel the way it treats all instances of an app as one thing rather than individual windows borderline infuriating). But realistically it is a faster and less buggy OS than Windows if only because Apple has control over what hardware it runs on and doesn't have to make it work with everything under the sun.

    And the apps problem is not nearly the issue it one was. Outside of games, most everything you'd want is available on OSX
    10-03-2013 08:41 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    To be fair, I know several people who have switched to Macs and loved them. I also know a few who have switched because their parents wanted them to get Macbooks for college and ended up wishing for PCs
    Anyway, I don't really see anything wrong with OSX. I personally dislike several things about it, but those are mostly matters of preference (like for example, I feel the way it treats all instances of an app as one thing rather than individual windows borderline infuriating). But realistically it is a faster and less buggy OS than Windows if only because Apple has control over what hardware it runs on and doesn't have to make it work with everything under the sun.

    And the apps problem is not nearly the issue it one was. Outside of games, most everything you'd want is available on OSX
    right, most people who buy their Macs keep OS X on them. I was just saying that some people think they'll like it, then end up hating it. Like my friend who bought a Mac due to playing with it for an hour in the Apple store and hearing the salesman's pitch, then he bought it and a week later, I saw a familiar start button on his screen.

    I'm like you, OS X isn't bad, but that's only based off second hand experience, I've never owned a mac. My biggest issue was those shortcuts in the corners or whatever they're called. I would try to exit out of something and it would zoom out to a multitasking screen like 40% of the time, but again, to each his own.

    Edit: ok, well my friend actually went to the Apple store like 3 times, not just sat there for an hour and liked it, I was just exaggerating a little bit. He still got Windows 7 though.
    10-03-2013 09:22 PM
  19. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    That makes NO sense. Why would you go pay the apple premium for a Mac, then pay for Windows on top of it? You're paying SO MUCH EXTRA that it's illogical.
    Do you know of any manufacturer that makes a unibody aluminum Windows notebook with comparable dimensions, screen pixel density, and weight of a Macbook Pro 15.4? I'm not trying to snipe, but seriously am curious. I have a 15.4 MBP and have considered swapping out the harddrive for one dedicated to Win7. (but keeping OSX for those other occasions)
    10-03-2013 10:09 PM
  20. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    For me the biggest thing that turns me off to OSX is the way it handles multitasking. In my experience Windows does a better job at it, and everything is a rranged ina fashion I personally find more logical and straightforward. Plus I am not a fan of the unified menu bar... Or the way the dock works versus the taskbar in Windows 7/8... Oh, and I also dislike how closed off the file system is by default.

    Although Macs are a win on the settings front as it's much easier to find settings for things on a Mac and it's more user-friendly. Although that's not a big thing for me as I am quite accustomed to the Windows control panel.
    10-03-2013 10:20 PM
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