10-23-2013 08:54 AM
64 123
tools
  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I get your argument about efficiency. But effeciency becomes less of an issue as hardware becomes more powerful.

    The main reason I would prefer a native app is for the interface. If I am on my Surface RT without my keyboard and mouse, I would rather use a native app with a touch-first interface. But on my Windows 8 desktop, i will always use the browser. The website in almost all cases will provide the richest experience. So to summarize my thoughts - if efficiency is not an issue (in other words, the hardware can handle just about everything that modern websites need power-wise), the only time I would chose a native app when both the app and website are available is for the optimized touch interface.

    Apps are absolutely essential on platforms without a full-featured web browser. They are definintely important on Windows RT, but just not as important IMO.
    I completely agree with regards to the desktop, but efficiency is far more than can the hardware handle it. It's also about battery life.
    10-21-2013 03:37 PM
  2. Chregu's Avatar
    I think the Engadget reviews are fair, but I already predicted in another thread that most people here most likely wouldn't think so, just out of spite ;-)

    Microsoft Surface 2 review: a second chance for Windows RT?

    Microsoft has already proven that it can build better hardware than just about any other Windows OEM. Indeed, the Surface 2 is a top-notch product. It's thin and well-built, with a nice display, improved webcam and a generous amount of storage (32GB for $449). Still, recommending the Surface becomes harder when there are other Windows tablets that cost less and run full Windows.
    Microsoft Surface Pro 2 review: a tablet that works best as a laptop

    Even so, we hope that as Microsoft sits down to plan the Surface Pro 3, it focuses on building a better tablet, the same way it made the Surface Pro 2 a better laptop. In the meantime, the new Pro is much improved, but it's still at its best in notebook mode.
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-21-2013 04:09 PM
  3. Daylife's Avatar
    I will still be getting a 64GB Surface 2! I don't care about what these hipsters have to say about it.
    HeyCori likes this.
    10-21-2013 06:18 PM
  4. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    I will still be getting a 64GB Surface 2! I don't care about what these hipsters have to say about it.
    They mostly complain about the 64GB on the Pro 2, as you only get about 29GB. On the 64GB surface 2 and rt, however, gets 48GB. It's a good amount. 😉
    10-21-2013 06:26 PM
  5. aliencatos's Avatar
    +1...
    10-21-2013 06:35 PM
  6. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    +1...
    On the forums, we have liking and thanking comments, btw.
    10-21-2013 06:54 PM
  7. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    So the IPad is better for watching movies/videos than the surface 2? Really? So according to theverge, 4:9 >16:4, when it come to movies/videos?
    I thought that the Verge's video review was somewhat reasonable but far from truly giving the Surface2 the credit it deserves. I don't know how the reviewer measures "better" regarding watching movies, but certainly in aspect ratio it would seem logical for the Surface's 16:9 AR screen would be better. But maybe he is referring to the individual apps for watching videos... Amazon Instant Video, Hulu Plus, Netflix, VuDu, etc.
    10-21-2013 07:56 PM
  8. wapoz's Avatar
    I thought that the Verge's video review was somewhat reasonable but far from truly giving the Surface2 the credit it deserves. I don't know how the reviewer measures "better" regarding watching movies, but certainly in aspect ratio it would seem logical for the Surface's 16:9 AR screen would be better. But maybe he is referring to the individual apps for watching videos... Amazon Instant Video, Hulu Plus, Netflix, VuDu, etc.
    Nope, he just says "great for watching movies... frankly the ipad is better for that." and moves on. A lot of the review was filled with subtle diminishing of all the features. Every time he referenced something being improved over the previous model he only said "it was improved a little", or "it's kinda good".
    10-21-2013 08:27 PM
  9. christenmartin's Avatar
    Reviews....eh.
    10-21-2013 08:33 PM
  10. lostaggie's Avatar
    But on the Surface 2/RT the choice is not between mobile sites and custom apps, it is between the full-featured browser sites and apps. In many cases (like YouTupe), the website is arguably better than many specific YouTube apps.

    And also, isn't IE11 optimized to run on ARM for Windows RT? I'm not arguing that Windows RT does not need native apps, but I strongly believe that a full-featured browser with Flash support helps fill the holes when apps are not yet available. And in many cases, being able to go to the website is preferrable to an app.
    Agree! This is why I am considering over the ipad. The apps are great but you miss content in the apps vs the full websites.

    The ipad cannot display many websites correctly.
    10-21-2013 09:25 PM
  11. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I thought that the Verge's video review was somewhat reasonable but far from truly giving the Surface2 the credit it deserves. I don't know how the reviewer measures "better" regarding watching movies, but certainly in aspect ratio it would seem logical for the Surface's 16:9 AR screen would be better. But maybe he is referring to the individual apps for watching videos... Amazon Instant Video, Hulu Plus, Netflix, VuDu, etc.
    At first I thought it was the apps too....

    Nope, he just says "great for watching movies... frankly the ipad is better for that." and moves on. A lot of the review was filled with subtle diminishing of all the features. Every time he referenced something being improved over the previous model he only said "it was improved a little", or "it's kinda good".
    ....but then I realized that they may have also been talking about actual display quality. Take aspect ratio out of the equation and the iPad has one of the best displays of any device available. Microsoft even said they weren't targeting the sRGB color space. That genuinely has me baffled.

    Not that the display is bad, but it's also not class leading.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    10-21-2013 09:45 PM
  12. chezm's Avatar
    At first I thought it was the apps too....



    ....but then I realized that they may have also been talking about actual display quality. Take aspect ratio out of the equation and the iPad has one of the best displays of any device available. Microsoft even said they weren't targeting the sRGB color space. That genuinely has me baffled.

    Not that the display is bad, but it's also not class leading.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    From my experience retina display isn't as good as a true 1080p display. Sure it looks nice on the iPhone, but bigger screens definitely overrated.
    10-21-2013 09:57 PM
  13. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    From my experience retina display isn't as good as a true 1080p display. Sure it looks nice on the iPhone, but bigger screens definitely overrated.
    I'm talking about color accuracy, white point, etc. Measurable things that point to the quality being better.

    I'd still rather have the aspect ratio of Surface, though. That just comes with trade offs is all. Ideally Microsoft will focus on improving the quality for the next generation and not just try to increase resolution. No need to do that until the rest of the ecosystem is ready.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    10-21-2013 10:01 PM
  14. wapoz's Avatar
    ....but then I realized that they may have also been talking about actual display quality. Take aspect ratio out of the equation and the iPad has one of the best displays of any device available. Microsoft even said they weren't targeting the sRGB color space. That genuinely has me baffled.

    Not that the display is bad, but it's also not class leading.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    But the iPad does have that aspect ratio which results in HD content from most providers being letterboxed, so it's not really a matter of "what if". If it was display quality he would have mentioned that the quality of display is better on the ipad, but in the text review they actually praised the quality of the surfaces 1080p screen in length. So why is letterboxed 1080p video better on the ipad vs. fullscreen 1080p on the surface 2 from Netflix or other HD streaming surface? There's no explanation for that offhand comment. In fact it was one of the things pointed out the most in the comment section of that review.
    10-21-2013 10:02 PM
  15. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    But the iPad does have that aspect ratio which results in HD content from most providers being letterboxed, so it's not really a matter of "what if". If it was display quality he would have mentioned that the quality of display is better on the ipad, but in the text review they actually praised the quality of the surfaces 1080p screen in length. So why is letterboxed 1080p video better on the ipad vs. fullscreen 1080p on the surface 2 from Netflix or other HD streaming surface? There's no explanation for that offhand comment. In fact it was one of the things pointed out the most in the comment section of that review.
    Then it must be the apps he was referring to, right?

    Or he just wanted to hate on Surface.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    10-21-2013 10:10 PM
  16. wapoz's Avatar
    Then it must be the apps he was referring to, right?

    Or he just wanted to hate on Surface.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    Go to 1:18 in the video. "It's a much better media machine than ever, a great way to watch Netflix movies (demonstrates snapped view/multi tasking with Netflix running), but frankly the ipad is still better for that, and that's not what the surface 2 is for anyways." After that statement he quickly makes a complaint about not being able to run x86 apps LOL.
    Last edited by wapoz; 10-21-2013 at 10:17 PM. Reason: :P
    10-21-2013 10:15 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    lol, go to 1:18 in the video. "It's a much better media machine than ever, a great way to watch Netflix movies (demonstrates snapped view/multi tasking with Netflix running), but frankly the ipad is still better for that, and that's not what the surface 2 is for anyways."
    Tbh I didn't like the review or agree with it all that much.

    It might be me falling for the marketing machine, but the iPad still isn't great at being productive. Less so than Android even (the keyboard options are better on Android). Surface 2 has full office, and while it's far less necessary than before it's still the standard. The Netflix app is good. The display is good. It's good.

    The valid comparison being made is to the ASUS tablet, though. I see a good case for considering that over Surface 2. It has its plusses and minuses though.
    10-21-2013 10:20 PM
  18. wapoz's Avatar
    Tbh I didn't like the review or agree with it all that much.

    It might be me falling for the marketing machine, but the iPad still isn't great at being productive. Less so than Android even (the keyboard options are better on Android). Surface 2 has full office, and while it's far less necessary than before it's still the standard. The Netflix app is good. The display is good. It's good.

    The valid comparison being made is to the ASUS tablet, though. I see a good case for considering that over Surface 2. It has its plusses and minuses though.
    I stopped watching the review when he stated the tegra 3 was a dual-core processor. It's sad to see these days that more and more tech bloggers not knowing the specs or the background of the products they write about. I saw Anandtech's review of the Asus T100 and he seemed to love it. His main complete seemed to be about color calibration compared to other models, but the overall take was that it "redefined the entry level windows notebook". I'm still not crazy about having full x86 windows on a tablet though (just my personal opinion), and most of what I would use a tablet for outside of office on the go, is on the metro side of windows. So I might end up getting a surface 2, or a surface RT if I find one for under $200 on craigslist/ebay lol.
    10-21-2013 10:36 PM
  19. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Go to 1:18 in the video. "It's a much better media machine than ever, a great way to watch Netflix movies (demonstrates snapped view/multi tasking with Netflix running), but frankly the ipad is still better for that, and that's not what the surface 2 is for anyways." After that statement he quickly makes a complaint about not being able to run x86 apps LOL.
    if that is an accurate quote from the review then it sounds like he was referring specifically to the Netflix app. Complaints about a particular version of the Netflix app is fair game. I have 8 different devices with different operating systems with native Netflix apps and they are all somewhat different... Enough to impact the viewing experience.

    but then again maybe I'm being too charitable to to reviewer.
    10-21-2013 10:46 PM
  20. MikeSo's Avatar
    Seem like fair reviews to me, other than the odd comment about video/Netflix being better on the iPad. Seem to be in line with what most people believe about these products: excellent improved hardware, with software that doesn't have the ecosystem and/or is trying to straddle the line between tablet and laptop. Not exactly groundbreaking stuff in this review.
    I will still be getting a Windows RT tablet, but am holding out to see what Nokia might reveal.
    10-22-2013 01:09 AM
  21. Daylife's Avatar
    Seem like fair reviews to me, other than the odd comment about video/Netflix being better on the iPad. Seem to be in line with what most people believe about these products: excellent improved hardware, with software that doesn't have the ecosystem and/or is trying to straddle the line between tablet and laptop. Not exactly groundbreaking stuff in this review.
    I will still be getting a Windows RT tablet, but am holding out to see what Nokia might reveal.

    Yeah and the part where the Tegra 3 and 4 is a dual core lol.
    10-22-2013 05:05 AM
  22. Daylife's Avatar
    10-22-2013 06:13 AM
  23. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Stupid iCnet.
    10-22-2013 08:15 AM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Stupid iCnet.
    This isn't a review. It's not a product announcement. It's a report of a "launch party", which does require some opinion. The fact is there, though, that very few people showed up at midnight to buy one. That doesn't mean they aren't going to sell well, or that people aren't going to buy them. It just means at that particular store there wasn't a good turn out (remember, the Bay Area is close to the home of Apple and Google).
    10-22-2013 10:54 AM
  25. Tjarren's Avatar
    I haven't gone The Verge this year and refuse to anymore. I'm not going to give a site that biased against MS products any hits ever. I suggest you all do the same and just ignore them. They'll never change and you know this.
    10-22-2013 11:08 AM
64 123

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-21-2013, 03:34 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-27-2013, 08:46 AM
  3. my windows 8.1 and windows phone 8 will not connect
    By diktea in forum Other Operating Systems
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-22-2013, 11:47 PM
  4. Case/sleeve that holds the SP2, Charger & Type Cover 2
    By squadz in forum Microsoft Surface Pro
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-22-2013, 09:22 AM
  5. WP in the UK - are you lonesome tonight?
    By Chris Sandiford in forum Other Operating Systems
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-22-2013, 03:37 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD