Another woeful review

[N_LaRUE]

So anyway, I've gone from an anti-MS, anti-tablet guy to a happy and productive user of a Surface RT tablet based on the strength of Windows 8/Windows Phone 8/Windows RT and nothing else. If those products didn't work for me, I wouldn't use them.

I realize that you don't know me from Adam and so my experiences and opinions are probably worthless to you, and I also realize you're talking about the Surface 2/Surface Pro 2 and not the originals, but you wanted some reality. This is my reality.

But it's nice to hear.

 

[AndyCalling]

What a weird list of concerns from that review, OP.

1) Lack of apps. WinRT and 8 are very new, but they are growing. Yes there are less apps, of course with a new model, but since those apps work on the desktop PC the number will grow fast as Win8.1 take up accelerates. As always, it depends if it has the apps you want.

2) Confusing. How? How can scrolling left and right and hitting the big colourful tile be hard? Or is it the swiping that's too tricky? Blimey, you can tell the reviewer is an Oxbridge man...

3) Can't run legacy apps. I can only speak for the Surface RT, which was the very first and so has no legacy apps. If the Surface 2 can't run Surface RT apps then it can't run Win8 apps either. This is not what I expect and hence I don't believe it. If the reviewer means it won't run desktop PC apps (which are very far from 'legacy') then he's a bit odd. You'll find the iPad won't run OSX desktop apps either. Odd thing to complain about. The pro can do that, but I don't think ANY Apple tablet can run desktop apps so this whole item of complaint just seems a bit weird. I don't get what he's moaning about with this one.

4) Office is not 100% touch. No. Really though, I plug in my mouse and Surface type keyboard for that. Anything less would not suit the task at hand. Office work of any serious level benefits more from a mouse and keyboard than it would from big touch controls. I hope it doesn't go that way.

My thoughts...

 

[kristalsoldier]

Well, I used to own a Surface RT, which I have now handed over to a family member. I now have and use a Surface 2. And, I am based in the UK and bought both the devices here.

Just to give you a background, I have a Win 8.1 desktop machine, an iPad4 and a Nexus10. I also own and use a Nokia 720 phone. I still use Gmail, but am in the process of progressively reducing my exposure to it since I moved away from using an Android phone. Don't use any other Google products except for Google+ and that too sparingly.

My work involves a lot of writing, preparing reports - PowerPoint and Excel - and internet-centric research. I also have t pore through pages and pages of e-books (in various formats). My research work also involves looking through a lot of media - primarily films/ documentaries etc.

I also travel a fair bit - most of which is international involving long flights.

The Surface 2 is my primary document creation device and when used with SkyDrive, it is also a document management device. I create long and complex documents using it (within the limitations of Win RT 8.1. Additional stuff, if necessary, I do on my desktop machine. I also use RDP to work between the Surface 2 and my desktop machine.

For my purposes, the Surface 2 is an excellent device. I regularly get around 8-10 hours of battery life - 10 hours on flights with all radios off (i.e., in flight mode). The device is light and aesthetically it is very pleasing (to me). I usually have the benefit of connecting to WiFi networks wherever I am (including overseas). Later in December, my mobile phone operator is upgrading my connection to have unlimited data and tethering, which will cover for any gaps that I may experience in connectivity, at least in the UK.

If you are wondering what I use my other devices (tablets) for - I use the iPad 4 as an e-reader. I find that the 4:3 aspect ratio is the best suited for reading electronic documents (of most formats). I use the Nexus 10 to watch media (the screen is excellent). I use the Surface 2 for - as mentioned above - for all my document creation and management activities, communications, internet activity.

In sum, I am not disappointed at all by the Surface 2. If anything, it has - especially with 8.1RT - exceeded my expectations. The build quality - at least in my case - is excellent.

Edit: I have read and seen a number of negative reviews of the Surface 2. I find that there are two basic issues that reviewers have - (1) lack of apps, and (2) issues involving the RT OS. In my opinion - which is all that this is - these issues kind of miss the point. While the RT space does lack apps to the extent that Apple and Google Stores have, for a user like me, it is not a problem. I use a minimal number of apps on both those eco-systems anyways.- remember that I have and use both the iPad and the Nexus 10. But it would be incorrect for me to say that there are something things that the Windows Store should have - like an efficient PDF reader/ annotator (my benchmark for this PDF Expert from the Apple Store and Mantano from the Google Store). Another thing is banking apps. But I have found that IE11 (combined with the use of compatibility lists) gives me access to my bank's pages and I can do whatever I need to - much like what can be done using the dedicated apps from the Apple and Google Stores. So, essentially, I don't give this criticism too much credence. The second issue involving RT OS is really a made up problem. I don't see the reviewers complaining that MacOS applications don't run on iOS. If they are happy with this, then I wonder why they have a problem with RT OS. After all, the principle is the same, isn't it? Having said this, some of the reviews that I did find helpful were by AnandTech, Paul Thurott, Ed Bott (from ZD Net), and most importantly, actual user reviews that I have found when looking through forums quite like this one!

 

[N_LaRUE]

What a weird list of concerns from that review, OP.

1) Lack of apps. WinRT and 8 are very new, but they are growing. Yes there are less apps, of course with a new model, but since those apps work on the desktop PC the number will grow fast as Win8.1 take up accelerates. As always, it depends if it has the apps you want.

2) Confusing. How? How can scrolling left and right and hitting the big colourful tile be hard? Or is it the swiping that's too tricky? Blimey, you can tell the reviewer is an Oxbridge man...

3) Can't run legacy apps. I can only speak for the Surface RT, which was the very first and so has no legacy apps. If the Surface 2 can't run Surface RT apps then it can't run Win8 apps either. This is not what I expect and hence I don't believe it. If the reviewer means it won't run desktop PC apps (which are very far from 'legacy') then he's a bit odd. You'll find the iPad won't run OSX desktop apps either. Odd thing to complain about. The pro can do that, but I don't think ANY Apple tablet can run desktop apps so this whole item of complaint just seems a bit weird. I don't get what he's moaning about with this one.

4) Office is not 100% touch. No. Really though, I plug in my mouse and Surface type keyboard for that. Anything less would not suit the task at hand. Office work of any serious level benefits more from a mouse and keyboard than it would from big touch controls. I hope it doesn't go that way.

My thoughts...

It's very typical of any review I've read about the Surface 2 from those who look at it through Apple glasses.

 

[cbreze]

Also didn't need the keyboard because it was so easy to type on the the tablet (it won the typing round and art round). He didn't like the keyboards on screen.

What I want to know is, what is your experience with the Surface 2?

I also have an iPad 3 as well as the surface 2 and find the keyboard on the surface a joy to use compared to the iPad's which is laggy and I find myself always waiting for it to catch up to me and I'm not a fast typist by any stretch. I very much prefer the surface's kb over the iPad. I also have the option to use an external kb with the surface, no so with the iPad. I also like using an external mouse with my surface, no can do with the iPad. Also use the USB port for various things, no usb on my iPad 3 anyway. I use my iPad for certain functions, but the surface is my go to device of choice for sure. As always YMMV, but the surface is a winner for my needs.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I was looking to get a Kindle, though, right about the time they dropped the price on the original Surface RT. I decided that since Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 were working so well for me, I'd give a Surface RT a chance and bought one. It was an eye opener. This is a great little device; it has all but replaced by home laptop, and that's because it's not just a content consumption device like the iPad. With its USB port and Bluetooth connectivity, I can use external keyboards and mice, thumbdrives, external hard drives, you name it. With the built-in Skydrive and Office, I can do actual work just like I do in my office, not on some watered-down Office-compatible set of apps. I can take it with me, prop it up on a table, and turn it around so that other people can see what I'm looking at for presentations and such. And if I find myself limited because of the small screen? For $20 or so I can buy an adapter to hook up an external monitor. There is no other tablet which gives you that much functionality (and by that I mean iPad/Android - there are other Windows tablets which do).

"Functionality" is a combination of what the hardware is capable of and what software is available to exploit that hardware. From a hardware standpoint, even the most vociferous anti-Microsoft bigot acknowledges that the Surface RT/2 hardware is top quality... in terms of build quality, design elements, and flexibility of ports.

What is holding the Surface RT/2 back is the software element of "functionality" which leads in to your other comment...

All the comments about lack of apps are worthy of the hand-job gesture. Sure, you can't install desktop x86 apps on the RT tablets, but if you want to install desktop x86 apps you shouldn't get an RT tablet; get the Pro. Or another, similar Windows 8 tablet from another manufacturer. The point is that it's a baseless comment.

You have taken a very narrow view of the complaints regarding application availability (lack of legacy x86 support) and dismissed the issue out-of-hand (pun intended). Claiming that complaints regarding software availability are a "baseless comment" simply reveals how small a perspective you have on the issue.

The outcry of a lack of support for legacy x86 apps IS a red herring trotted out (primarily) by Apple apologists. That doesn't mean that thinking people need to fall for it, or to give it more credence than to acknowledge that the Surface RT/2 does not in fact support those apps. All the more reason for being concerned for the continued lack of quality native WinRT apps.

Owners of the Surface RT/2 can certainly acknowledge the true condition of the situation without having to blindly embrace the RT as perfect in all areas. I'm a huge fan of the RT/2, I enjoy and champion the things that the RT can do that no other tablet can do. But I see the tremendous untapped potential. I can be honest about that. As impossible as it might seem, I can be a fan of the RT/2 AND be frustrated by the current availability of applications. The two positions are NOT mutually exclusive.

I'm not even referring to niche software like I've mentioned in the past (podcast production). There are some basic fundamental applications that are widely used on smartphones and tablets for other platforms, like a hierarchical/tree text/markdown editor that supports DropBox. I currently use Notational Velocity, nvAlt, & Nottingham (OSX), Epistle & NotationalAcceleration (Android), WriteRoom (iOS), but nothing native for Windows (though I use Windows Explorer and my favorite text editor to accomplish the same), and nothing for WinRT. This is something that people who actually use the "smart" part of their "smartphone" (or tablets) rely heavily on.

Some will suggest EverNote... and I used it for quite a long time, but it is a "heavy" app employing a proprietary format, not quite the same thing.

It's funny in an ironic sort of way that Apple fans defend Apple's decisions knowing that Apple couldn't give a rip about what those fans want, and yet Microsoft is a company that actually WILL listen to their customers, and its fans overwhelming blindly defend Microsoft too when if they had spoken up, it is quite possible that Microsoft would've listened.

Oh well.

 

[anony_mouse]

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you, or if you misunderstand the Surface 2. The Surface 2 runs Windows RT. If what you are calling "proper" software are Windows legacy applications, then the Surface 2 will not run these. The Surface Pro and Pro 2 will.

Actually, my apologies, I misread the OP's question (and for some reason I find the new names confusing - Surface RT/Pro v. Surface 2/Pro2 - but I think that's my problem). You can ignore most of my post, but I'd stick to my advice to try a Surface <whatever> in a shop, though.

 

[iamtim]

First off, my pops has a '41 Willys. Pre-Jeep, of course, but I find so very few people who know of Willys pre- or post-Jeep. Cool.

Claiming that complaints regarding software availability are a "baseless comment" simply reveals how small a perspective you have on the issue.

It's one thing to take an anonymous comment and state it baseless; it's a very different thing to quote one person specifically and accuse them of having a small perspective. Tread lightly.

I can be a fan of the RT/2 AND be frustrated by the current availability of applications.

Of course. And I can be a fan of Windows RT and be perfectly happy with the current availability of applications. When one makes a post containing their opinions - in my case, what I called my reality - one speaks only from their unique perspective, right? From my unique perspective, if you find WinRT lacking in apps or app support then it's not the platform for you; switch to the Surface Pro where you can use any application you can use on a regular Windows desktop or laptop.

There's no need to take up the RT banner and campaign for it to be a full solution for every need, with as much application support as its big brother has. It is what it is, and that's why the Surface Pro exists. Use the tool that suits the job, not the other way around.

 

[Chris Sandiford]

I bought an Acer tablet to try out Win 8 when it first came out and as much as I enjoyed the tabletty aspect of it, switching to desktop to carry out Office tasks or work in that environment was not a comfortable experience.
I can't see how Win 8 works 100% with a tablet.

I sold my Acer and have just got an Acer Aspire V5 laptop with touch screen and it's amazing.
I get the touch for Modern UI, games, Fruity Loops etc and then have the benefit of the keyboard for typing like this.

It's a winning combo.

 

[Oliver Newell]

The gadget show is terrible now. I don't watch it, loads of others are not and their ratings and views have gone down, especially since many more "trusted" online critics have appeared.

 

[lovenokia]

So I was watching the Gadget Show last night on TV (UK). Not something I normally watch and they had a someone reviewing three tablets, the Surface 2, the Asus Transformer Android tablet and of course the iPad Air. The reviewer took them all to a school to use and gave them their usual ratings out of 5. The tablets were used in three different areas, typing, camera (photos/video), and art (touch screen sensitivity).

With the Surface 2 is was the usual statements I've heard a few times from other reviewers, lack of apps, confusing, cannot run legacy software, Office is not touch optimized, here's a link to the review: The Gadget Show | Microsoft Surface 2 review by The Gadget Show

On top of that they didn't like the HD display ratio in portrait mode....

The Gadget Show has had a love affair with all things Apple for some time. The reviewer gave the Air 5/5 and the Surface 2 3/5 (same for the Transformer). The Air had more apps and was the better productive tablet because of that. Also didn't need the keyboard because it was so easy to type on the the tablet (it won the typing round and art round). He didn't like the keyboards on screen or off of the Surface 2.

Now I've been seriously thinking of buying a Surface 2 as a productive tablet but I'm having a hard time convincing the wife when these types of reviews keep popping up. I know reviewers are horrible when it comes to technology these days, if it's not Apple it's too complicated, is the mantra. Add the lack of apps statements and it becomes more troublesome.

What I want to know is, what is your experience with the Surface 2? I need some good feedback from actual users if it's worth it to buy one. I'm tired of these crap reviews. If I'm going to drop anywhere from ?400 to ?600 on a device I want to know if I'm wasting my time or not.

This was such a stupid review, like really, being a student I would never type a homework assignment on a touchscreen. It would bed torture, or rather a punishment to do that. The review was so fake, the reviewer said it is easier to type the english paper of the ipad is flat out lieing. Ms word beats any office software the ipad has hands down, and the guy does not know what he is doing clearly.

 

[hagjohn]

I think the people who pan Surface, don't understand it.

 

[stephen_az]

I was hoping people would give me some feedback here so I didn't have to go searching everywhere.

....then why not just ask questions instead of posting a thread with an inflammatory title and link to a bad review?

 

[N_LaRUE]

....then why not just ask questions instead of posting a thread with an inflammatory title and link to a bad review?

The title wasn't meant to be inflammatory. Just attention grabbing.

I was hoping to get some clarity on the Surface 2 by explaining my concerns using a review done by a TV show, which lots of people still watch. I was hoping that some users would be able to explain to me where the reviewer and others have gone wrong or where they might be right.

Problem with posting is most people seem to concentrate on one aspect of your post. I've had this issue with emails where I have asked several questions and receive an answer back on one of them. Not sure where that comes from but my guess would I think people get lazy looking at screens. My wife has the same issue when emailing people as well.

As for the negative review, I think this is something MS needs to deal with and address. I live in the UK and the marketing for the Surface 2 is non-existent. Worse still is that the shops that sell the Surface tend to shove them in a corner, have them password locked so you can't use it, that's if it's on. I'm all for buying MS products but I'd like some idea of what I'm buying.

 

[anony_mouse]

I'm all for buying MS products but I'd like some idea of what I'm buying.

Have you seen Microsoft Surface Tablets - The Windows Tablet That Does More ? It's an annoying site - phrases like "Meet Surface 2" are used, and there is some nasty small print, e.g. "Surface 2 comes with Microsoft Office 2013 RT. Some functionality may be limited. " ('may be limited' - is it limited or not?) - but there is lots of information and you should be able to get a good idea of what you are thinking of buying.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Have you seen Microsoft Surface Tablets - The Windows Tablet That Does More ? It's an annoying site - phrases like "Meet Surface 2" are used, and there is some nasty small print, e.g. "Surface 2 comes with Microsoft Office 2013 RT. Some functionality may be limited. " ('may be limited' - is it limited or not?) - but there is lots of information and you should be able to get a good idea of what you are thinking of buying.

I'm not a big online shopper unless it's things I already know about. I actually like to get a feel for things before purchasing. That's why I was trying to get some insight from real users of Surface 2. If I do get more serious about it then I will go to a shop and make sure I can try one first, that's of course if they can figure out how to turn it on and get through the password. If you haven't guessed my opinion of most shop employees is fairly low.

 

[Pete]

Surface 2 is a great device. Since I've got it, my top-of-the-line Levono Ultrabook and Nexus 7 has been gathering dust. That being said, I'm not what you call a power user and don't use a huge amount of apps.

People say that Office isn't touch friendly, but it's actually pretty useful - there's an icon on the toolbar that makes the icons spaced out a bit more to help with fat fingers. Yes, the finer functionality does need nimble fingertips, but the often used features are eminently pokeable.

I'd advise you to take a punt on buying one, if it doesn't meet your needs, you'll be able to return it for a refund under the distance selling regulations.

I have an idea that you'll get on with it just fine as you're already indoctrinated into how WP8 works.

 

[GreatCanadian]

Actually, my apologies, I misread the OP's question (and for some reason I find the new names confusing - Surface RT/Pro v. Surface 2/Pro2 - but I think that's my problem). You can ignore most of my post, but I'd stick to my advice to try a Surface <whatever> in a shop, though.

No sir, I do not believe that is your problem. I think your confusion is Microsoft's fault. They should have called the OS on the Surface Windows Mobile or something to help people differentiate between Surface and Surface Pro. Unless you're really digging into forums to research before buying a Surface, I think most buyers would not know the difference.

 

[JerseySal]

Every Windows tablet I've owned or played with at stores has a far better on screen keyboard than my wife's older iPad and iPad Air. That guy is full of crap.

 

[gwinegarden]

"Can't run legacy apps" -- well there is not one x86 app, on my desktop, that I want to run on my Surface2, and, of course, the iPad can't run them either.
"Lack of apps" -- there, certainly, might be some, out there, that I would want, but I haven't found any.

How about what the iPad cannot do like connect to a USB3 device or connect via HDMI, or expand memory using a SD card?