1. Reefa's Avatar
    Hi all,

    I've had my Surface Pro 2 256/8 since release and all has been fine until (possibly) the firmware update.

    Turbo Boost was working fine and the CPU was going up to its maximum of 2.6Ghz but it is now seemingly capped at 2.23Ghz.

    I've checked in PC Settings, Task Manager and CPU-Z, the maximum that the CPU ever reaches is 2.23Ghz, as indicated.

    Anyone else experienced this? I have tried all power profiles (Performance, balanced, Power Saver and there's no difference).

    Thanks!

    EDIT: Having used HWiNFO64 on the High Performance profile I can see that the core is limited to x23 which is producing the 2.3Ghz clock speed. It occasionally indicates x26 (2.6Ghz) for a millisecond before ThermMon shows that it is being throttled back to x23. So it appears it's not reaching maximum speed to keep the heat lower, why this has happened is still inconclusive..
    Last edited by Reefa; 11-12-2013 at 10:30 AM.
    11-12-2013 08:20 AM
  2. MBytes's Avatar
    That is common problem on ultra compact system. Well at least it's not a forced down-clocked. Something that OEMs tend to always do on laptop with Nvidia or AMD dedicated GPU. They tell you some fancy GPU, but the GPU and it's memory is really down-clocked. Sometimes they use crappier memory.. like if its support to have GDDR3, they'll put.. no not DDR3, but DDR2. All in order to cut cost.

    Now I can't check to see if I have the same problem, as I don't have a any Surface line product, yet.

    You can try and see if the system goes faster when plugged in, and on Balance (not high performance). Be sure to push the CPU.
    You can use this to push the CPU to it's max:
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...esting-program
    11-12-2013 09:55 PM
  3. PandaSPUR's Avatar
    That is common problem on ultra compact system. Well at least it's not a forced down-clocked. Something that OEMs tend to always do on laptop with Nvidia or AMD dedicated GPU. They tell you some fancy GPU, but the GPU and it's memory is really down-clocked. Sometimes they use crappier memory.. like if its support to have GDDR3, they'll put.. no not DDR3, but DDR2. All in order to cut cost.[/url]
    That statement is wrong on quite a few levels...

    But sorry OP, dont know whats up with that.
    11-12-2013 10:36 PM
  4. MBytes's Avatar
    That statement is wrong on quite a few levels...
    Actually it's rather true. I have a laptops with this. And why you think you have, for the same specs, large performance difference difference between machines.
    This is nothing new.
    11-12-2013 11:03 PM
  5. PandaSPUR's Avatar
    You need to look up what GDDR3, DDR3, and DDR2 really are.

    And no OEMs cant randomly underclock CPUs and lock it there, especially since these CPUs come locked from Intel themselves (only the K series come with modifiable multipliers)
    EDIT: To clarify, I'm speaking of maximum multiplier settings. Of course with speedstep and turboboost the CPU may speed up and slow down based on the load.

    The discrete GPUs is a whole other issue though, NV and AMD do tend to use odd model numbers for their mobile GPUs that dont exactly match up with their desktop counterparts.

    And I personally dont own multiple machines with the same specs so I cant comment on that. But I'll be it has to do with the different software people put on their machines.

    EDIT2: OP I wish I could help more, but I'm still waiting for the delivery of my own SP2.
    Google "Prime95." It is a program that does math calculations and hardware enthusiasts frequently use it to stress test their CPUs.
    This program would for sure kick your CPU to max load, and then you can see if it really is being stopped from reaching 2.6GHz.
    11-12-2013 11:36 PM
  6. MBytes's Avatar
    You need to look up what GDDR3, DDR3, and DDR2 really are.
    The question, is do you?

    Of course they won't unclock the CPU, but they can throttle it.
    That is why you can find tools, to by pass it: http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads...ttlestop-4-00/
    11-13-2013 07:22 AM
  7. PandaSPUR's Avatar
    The question, is do you?

    Of course they won't unclock the CPU, but they can throttle it.
    That is why you can find tools, to by pass it: Download ThrottleStop 4.00 | techPowerUp
    The G in GDDR3 stands for Graphics. You cant interchange GDDR3 and DDR3. DDR3 and DDR2 are also two different generations that are NOT interchangeable. Which standard you are able to use depends on your processor. DDR2 hasnt been supported since the Core2Duo or early Core i days I think. You wont find DDR2 in a Haswell generation chip for sure.
    You might be talking about the different speeds of RAM modules within a standard, usually denoted by DDR3-### where the ### is the speed of the RAM or by PC##### where the ##### is the resultant bandwidth of the RAM.

    And it could be possible that companies adjust their "power saving" settings to throttle and maximize battery life, but the way you stated it before sounded like companies were intentionally dumbing down their chips in order to be cheap or something. If that was not your intention, then my mistake.

    However, as I pointed out with the RAM explanation, your original statement was indeed wrong on at least one level.

    My SP2 will arrive this Friday, I'll check it out for myself when I can and respond here.
    11-13-2013 11:55 AM
  8. MBytes's Avatar
    The G in GDDR3 stands for Graphics. You cant interchange GDDR3 and DDR3. DDR3 and DDR2 are also two different generations that are NOT interchangeable. Which standard you are able to use depends on your processor. DDR2 hasnt been supported since the Core2Duo or early Core i days I think. You wont find DDR2 in a Haswell generation chip for sure.
    You might be talking about the different speeds of RAM modules within a standard, usually denoted by DDR3-### where the ### is the speed of the RAM or by PC##### where the ##### is the resultant bandwidth of the RAM.
    No.
    1- GDDR means that the memory chip has been modified for high bandwidth in exchange of high latency. As the GPU need bandwidth over latency (as it works with textures, and doesn't really need to get fast access, continuously, to memory, they benefit greatly from this.
    2- GDDR and DDR are exchangeable no problem.
    3- As Stated here, and any review sites: Dell Latitude E6500 Teardown - iFixit, the GPU, the Nvidia Quadro NVS 160M, has DDR3.
    The Dell E6400, with the exact same specs, with the same Nvidia Quadro NVS 160M, has DDR2:


    This is nothing new.
    If you wiki many Nvidia and AMD models, you'll see that they'll mark a range of speeds, memory type and such, even GPU architecture, despite the same name. Simple example:
    GeForce 600 Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You normally don't have this on good gaming laptops, but on the rest, it's common, even on OEM desktop.

    If you scroll up on the desktop GPUs, you have 4x GeForce GT 630. Fermi, or Kepler architecture (which have notable performance difference and heat difference, Kepler being cooler operating), and you have different memory types.

    4- Core 2 Duo with DDR3 exists, because the memory controller is on the motherboard, not the CPU.
    Examples:
    - Newegg.ca - Refurbished: ThinkCentre Core 2 Duo 4GB DDR3 160GB HDD Capacity Desktop PC Windows 7 Professional M58p (6234A1U)
    - P5G41T-M LX - Motherboards - ASUS
    - MacBook Pro - Core 2 Duo: MacBook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    11-13-2013 12:58 PM
  9. PandaSPUR's Avatar
    Whoaa there slow down.

    1. I was referring to DDR3 and DDR2 in terms of system memory as I assumed that is what you were doing. (Which is why I said you cant interchange GDDR and DDR, no one calls system memory GDDR)
    With desktops and CPUs, the compatible memory is based on what the CPU is designed to work with. You're not going to see a specific chip or generation of chips that suddenly works with DDR2 and DDR3. Go look up chip specs on Intel, it specifies what kind of memory architecture it works with.
    I never said Core2 never supported DDR3, the later models did. But these later models were also not compatible with the earlier motherboards that were designed for earlier C2D chips and DDR2.
    You cant swap DDR2 and DDR3 at will when talking about CPUs.

    2. I was already avoiding the whole topic of discrete GPUs since those things are a mess (mainly since they're basically proprietary in nature and made for specific laptops, where as desktop models are much more... organized).
    With desktops and CPUs the main thing concerning the difference between DDR2 and DDR3 are their DIMM pin layouts. Things get fuzzy with GPUs, since those memory chips are soldered on anyway, the only number of interest is the speed of the memory. And I dont know why you're referencing Geforce specs when talking about a Quadro card. Yes they have similarities but they are still different cards. Quadro NVS Mobile - Tech Specs | NVIDIA NV doesnt even list DDR type for their NVS160M. It just says 64bit lol.
    But as you already mentioned, things get weird. The bandwidth and speed listed by NV implies the memory is DDR3. But the bandwidth and speed shown in that little screenshot of yours is indicative of DDR2. This is why I was trying to avoid the conversation about discrete GPUs, its freaking weird. And the SP2 doesnt have one anyway, so why discuss it here?
    11-13-2013 01:46 PM
  10. MBytes's Avatar
    My point in all of this, is that you have laptops from OEMs that they have aggressive throttling due to form factor limitation, or allows them to avoid using more costly heatsink, and/or better thermal paste which would be otherwise required, for profit increase, or selling the system at the lowest price possible.
    11-13-2013 02:02 PM
  11. PandaSPUR's Avatar
    My point in all of this, is that you have laptops from OEMs that they have aggressive throttling due to form factor limitation, or allows them to avoid using more costly heatsink, and/or better thermal paste which would be otherwise required, for profit increase, or selling the system at the lowest price possible.
    Yeaa.. I guess I see your point, I just dont agree with it. I'm do believe that manufacturers may implement more aggressive power saving schemes to boast about better battery life, but I dont think they would go as far as what you're suggesting.
    11-13-2013 02:38 PM

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