I dont' have a SP2, can someone explain to me what auto-brightness is. If it is like the Nintendo 3DS and WiiU Power Saving mode, then what it does it that it increases the brightness of colors, and decreases the back light. This leads for you to see things correctly, but in exchange you loose contrast, and also you have banding, as the colors are adjusted software wise, and not on the LCD panel itself, which is 100% normal, as color adjustment done via software is using a standard algorithm, it doesn't use a Look Up Table to know it should be using which colors, for all 16.7 million colors.
Colour banding
- Thread starter cgmonkey
- Start date
That is really strange, the image displays fine when it first loads then animates into a banded version. Very strange indeed.
randomscandinavian
New member
So what's the status on this now? The January update didn't fix anything!
To recap: images display fine if I simply look at a photo but when you need to handle gradients, such as in a color picker in a desktop graphics application, the colors look like there are only a few thousand of them. Something is clearly not right. Especially if you are going to use the SP2 for image editing.
The latest Intel driver I have found for Windows 8.1 and the HD4400 adapter seems to be Win64_15338. But Windows won't let me update them without ininstalling the current driver completely first.
I haven't done that on a tablet before. Will I be able to see and navigate to the Device Manager afterwards or will the touch screen be disabled upon restart? Has anybody tried any of these Intel drivers after the latest Windows update?
To recap: images display fine if I simply look at a photo but when you need to handle gradients, such as in a color picker in a desktop graphics application, the colors look like there are only a few thousand of them. Something is clearly not right. Especially if you are going to use the SP2 for image editing.
The latest Intel driver I have found for Windows 8.1 and the HD4400 adapter seems to be Win64_15338. But Windows won't let me update them without ininstalling the current driver completely first.
I haven't done that on a tablet before. Will I be able to see and navigate to the Device Manager afterwards or will the touch screen be disabled upon restart? Has anybody tried any of these Intel drivers after the latest Windows update?
Now using my Surface Pro 2, I see the problem, and I have identified the issue.
The problem is the Intel integrated graphics changes the brightness (and or contrast) of the display at a software level. This is part of it's power saving abilities. As it is software color adjustment, it creates banding. The whole thing is completely retarded, but its Intel integrated graphics, so it doesn't surprise me one bit. This is why I want consumer to push manufacture to use Nvidia or AMD offering. Intel integrated graphics is a free graphic card. That is what you get for free. Manufactures and Intel thinks that all we do is Youtube and Office, which is untrue. And some of them, even enjoy colors. Much like people buying dedicated sound card for a premium sound experience, while not being an audio enthusiast, they just seek better music experience over onboard solutions.
And Intel integrated graphics has a long list of issues and limitation. This is my first system where I don't have Nvidia or AMD GPU as I had no choice... and to me, it shows like a soar thumb that the GPU is absolute junk. Forget performance per watts efficiency, or performance of the device, I am not even talking about this.
Anyway, to get the Intel drivers installed... because it's Intel you have to do the following:
-> Download the zip version of the drivers, and extract them somewhere.
-> Uninstall the drivers from device manager, and check the box to delete them
-> In Device manager, tell the graphic card adapter to use the extracted drivers
-> Restart and you are set.
Note that you'll lose all power saving features of the Intel integrated graphics, which will drop the battery life of the device.
To revert, uninstall the drivers from device manager, and check the box to delete them, then do a Windows Update, and you'll find the latest Surface Por firmware appear again. It will install the graphic card drivers again.
The touch screen display is not related to the graphic card. It's like your mouse, or your keyboard, just another input peripheral device.
The problem is the Intel integrated graphics changes the brightness (and or contrast) of the display at a software level. This is part of it's power saving abilities. As it is software color adjustment, it creates banding. The whole thing is completely retarded, but its Intel integrated graphics, so it doesn't surprise me one bit. This is why I want consumer to push manufacture to use Nvidia or AMD offering. Intel integrated graphics is a free graphic card. That is what you get for free. Manufactures and Intel thinks that all we do is Youtube and Office, which is untrue. And some of them, even enjoy colors. Much like people buying dedicated sound card for a premium sound experience, while not being an audio enthusiast, they just seek better music experience over onboard solutions.
And Intel integrated graphics has a long list of issues and limitation. This is my first system where I don't have Nvidia or AMD GPU as I had no choice... and to me, it shows like a soar thumb that the GPU is absolute junk. Forget performance per watts efficiency, or performance of the device, I am not even talking about this.
Anyway, to get the Intel drivers installed... because it's Intel you have to do the following:
-> Download the zip version of the drivers, and extract them somewhere.
-> Uninstall the drivers from device manager, and check the box to delete them
-> In Device manager, tell the graphic card adapter to use the extracted drivers
-> Restart and you are set.
Note that you'll lose all power saving features of the Intel integrated graphics, which will drop the battery life of the device.
To revert, uninstall the drivers from device manager, and check the box to delete them, then do a Windows Update, and you'll find the latest Surface Por firmware appear again. It will install the graphic card drivers again.
The touch screen display is not related to the graphic card. It's like your mouse, or your keyboard, just another input peripheral device.
I have found a fix! maybe....
I'll need some assistance with some one who has time to play around with the Intel drivers, and testing.
I'll need some assistance with some one who has time to play around with the Intel drivers, and testing.
randomscandinavian
New member
Trying the Intel 15.33.8.64.3345 driver now. The Surface immediately reinstalled its old drivers after I uninstalled them, even with auto update off. But it turned out I was able to install the "new" drivers anyway without uninstalling the regular ones.
So... I can now see all of these dark shades Black level - Lagom LCD test
And everything looks good. That is to say it looks less contrasty and all over duller and less saturated than before, but this is probably a lot more accurate for photography even though the desktop environment is a little less flashy to look at. One gets used to such changes after a short time.
Have set my color space to Adobe RGB and relative colometric. I may give my Spyder a go and calibrate the display properly but I am uncertain about the starting contrast and gamma settings for this display. Another thing to look into.
But this computer is finally taking shape as something that can be used for graphic work.
So... I can now see all of these dark shades Black level - Lagom LCD test
And everything looks good. That is to say it looks less contrasty and all over duller and less saturated than before, but this is probably a lot more accurate for photography even though the desktop environment is a little less flashy to look at. One gets used to such changes after a short time.
Have set my color space to Adobe RGB and relative colometric. I may give my Spyder a go and calibrate the display properly but I am uncertain about the starting contrast and gamma settings for this display. Another thing to look into.
But this computer is finally taking shape as something that can be used for graphic work.
I fixed the problem on my side, and figured out where the drivers settings are stores. Now I need to do 3 things.
-> See if I can carry the settings to the Surface Intel drivers, and have them applied correctly
-> Test to see if I can get battery life with it back. If not, then identify which exact set of options disables the "Intel contrast enhancing" feature.
-> Make a program that will apply/revert the changes, because it is not an easy thing to do manually, and can't do a reg file. I could do a Intel Control Panel for Surface users, but I see that, beside you, no one is interested, so I refer to work on my other idea. Change Windows Power plan based on what you run and if you are plugged in or not, with balloon notification (if you want), when the battery reach a certain level when charging, for those who wants to disconnect to stop charging their Surface.
-> See if I can carry the settings to the Surface Intel drivers, and have them applied correctly
-> Test to see if I can get battery life with it back. If not, then identify which exact set of options disables the "Intel contrast enhancing" feature.
-> Make a program that will apply/revert the changes, because it is not an easy thing to do manually, and can't do a reg file. I could do a Intel Control Panel for Surface users, but I see that, beside you, no one is interested, so I refer to work on my other idea. Change Windows Power plan based on what you run and if you are plugged in or not, with balloon notification (if you want), when the battery reach a certain level when charging, for those who wants to disconnect to stop charging their Surface.
randomscandinavian
New member
But will it really use a lot more power when in actual use? Or just when not sleeping inbetween use? Hibernation still works. I have my power button set for that so whenever I put it down for something longer than a few minutes, I set it to hibernate. Booting is only some four seconds anyway.
And what about the tray Intel control panel's power settings? I know the advanced settings are disables on this display but there are some simple power settings there it seems. I'm more worried that these drivers have more power management in terms of auto brightness going up and down.
I like your idea but I think it may be a bit too ambitious for something like this. Since I have a feeling that new drivers will arrive soon that are better for this display. They simply cannot leave the original drivers like this with no shadow detail and that much banding. Well, it seems impossible but then again who knows. Like I said, the apps and tiles do look better with more of a punch to the look, even though that is incorrect representation of colors and wouldn't work for a designer or photographer. But I'm sure games look good with richer deeper blacks and more vivid colors.
As for participation, yes there is little activity here. Then again it is mostly a Windows Phone community, so maybe I at least will look for another place with a bit more Surface action.
And what about the tray Intel control panel's power settings? I know the advanced settings are disables on this display but there are some simple power settings there it seems. I'm more worried that these drivers have more power management in terms of auto brightness going up and down.
I like your idea but I think it may be a bit too ambitious for something like this. Since I have a feeling that new drivers will arrive soon that are better for this display. They simply cannot leave the original drivers like this with no shadow detail and that much banding. Well, it seems impossible but then again who knows. Like I said, the apps and tiles do look better with more of a punch to the look, even though that is incorrect representation of colors and wouldn't work for a designer or photographer. But I'm sure games look good with richer deeper blacks and more vivid colors.
As for participation, yes there is little activity here. Then again it is mostly a Windows Phone community, so maybe I at least will look for another place with a bit more Surface action.
So far I can't say, as I haven't got the time to do the point I mentioned above.
Basically what I am doing, is that I figured out where the driver settings are stored. Now I need to make a monitoring tool to know which value represent (as they don't have nice understandable names), the option that enables and disables that features which creates the banding.
Once I know what the option is, I can put back the Surface Pro Intel drivers that is provided by Microsoft, and apply the setting there, which will disable the banding option. Basically, all I'll be doing is an Intel Control Panel program with 1 option, which is to enable/disable that option that creates the banding. It will have 1 limitation, and that is, because I can't know the Intel drivers API code ('cause Intel is not giving it), I won't be able to say to the Intel drivers "Hey! Look! Options has changes in your settings! Do you mind reloading them to apply them now? Cool awesome, thanks!", Sadly you'll have to restart the system so that the drivers load its setting at boot up, to have the changes take affect.
It will have no affect on anything else on the system. So your sleep, hibernate, etc. function will work exactly the same way as before, same for the rest.
It only affects the banding.
Basically what I am doing, is that I figured out where the driver settings are stored. Now I need to make a monitoring tool to know which value represent (as they don't have nice understandable names), the option that enables and disables that features which creates the banding.
Once I know what the option is, I can put back the Surface Pro Intel drivers that is provided by Microsoft, and apply the setting there, which will disable the banding option. Basically, all I'll be doing is an Intel Control Panel program with 1 option, which is to enable/disable that option that creates the banding. It will have 1 limitation, and that is, because I can't know the Intel drivers API code ('cause Intel is not giving it), I won't be able to say to the Intel drivers "Hey! Look! Options has changes in your settings! Do you mind reloading them to apply them now? Cool awesome, thanks!", Sadly you'll have to restart the system so that the drivers load its setting at boot up, to have the changes take affect.
It will have no affect on anything else on the system. So your sleep, hibernate, etc. function will work exactly the same way as before, same for the rest.
It only affects the banding.
randomscandinavian
New member
I calibrated my Surface Pro 2 (Intel drivers) with a Spyder 4 Elite. It looks a lot nicer although these results are probably aren't reliable either for accurate printing and such. Looks like the display is far off reproducing Adobe RGB so I'm back to sRGB for now. This doesn't solve missing power options of course, but at least the display doesn't look as dull as when I first installed the Intel drivers.
I haven't yet measured how long the full battery actually lasts so I'm not sure what the actual loss is. Hard to test exactly too when you use it for different things all the time. But it doesn't seem like it was much better before.
I haven't yet measured how long the full battery actually lasts so I'm not sure what the actual loss is. Hard to test exactly too when you use it for different things all the time. But it doesn't seem like it was much better before.
The Surface Pro 2 display is a 6-bit+FRC display, not a true 8-bit display.
And as it uses white LED backlight and not high-grade CFL, or GB-LED or RGB-LED, it is also not wide gamut.
So in other words, you wont' be able to get Adobe RGB
And as it uses white LED backlight and not high-grade CFL, or GB-LED or RGB-LED, it is also not wide gamut.
So in other words, you wont' be able to get Adobe RGB
Thank you, Mbytes and random... and others for all your work on this. Most people don't comment unless they have something to contribute, but we do appreciate reading your valuable comments.
Best Wishes, No Worries.
Best Wishes, No Worries.
randomscandinavian
New member
Anybody tried today's patches? I'm not installng anything now unless I know for sure that there are actual shadow details and no banding. What are these new tuning options?
I realize that the rest of you aren't my personal crash test dummies but I figure that most people will have upgraded anyway and so I thought I'd ask before spending an hour installing and configuring it and then disappointedly reverting to what I have now.
I realize that the rest of you aren't my personal crash test dummies but I figure that most people will have upgraded anyway and so I thought I'd ask before spending an hour installing and configuring it and then disappointedly reverting to what I have now.
I am about to try, but apparently it's not fixed.. but there is my solution as you know, which, for me, has been working awesomely.Anybody tried today's patches? I'm not installng anything now unless I know for sure that there are actual shadow details and no banding. What are these new tuning options?
I realize that the rest of you aren't my personal crash test dummies but I figure that most people will have upgraded anyway and so I thought I'd ask before spending an hour installing and configuring it and then disappointedly reverting to what I have now.
randomscandinavian
New member
Have you tried your fix with the latest official drivers? I'm vurious as to how the new graphic controls will work with tour solution.
I haven't even turned my Surface on for over a week but I do think your idea of using the native Surface drivers and then tweaking them is interesting. I think the Intel drivers with a calibrated display seems promising, but I am very bothered by the idea of poor battery performance. And I hate not being able to have the latest official bug fixes. So an enhanced official driver that can be updated normally would be best.
Haven't had the time to tinker a lot with any of this. Will start working with photography again soon now and I'm trying to set up the Surface as much as possible so that it will just function for my work at that time, without me having to tweak and fix anything. I just want to use the Surface Pro for actual work and not do tweaks and maintenence.
I haven't even turned my Surface on for over a week but I do think your idea of using the native Surface drivers and then tweaking them is interesting. I think the Intel drivers with a calibrated display seems promising, but I am very bothered by the idea of poor battery performance. And I hate not being able to have the latest official bug fixes. So an enhanced official driver that can be updated normally would be best.
Haven't had the time to tinker a lot with any of this. Will start working with photography again soon now and I'm trying to set up the Surface as much as possible so that it will just function for my work at that time, without me having to tweak and fix anything. I just want to use the Surface Pro for actual work and not do tweaks and maintenence.
Yea it works great!
Still looking into improving it. After further testing, it would seam that only 'DCUserPreferencePolicy' needs to be change to not have Intel auto contrast adjustment thing kick-in on battery.
Still doing testing, but so far so good (current fix, and also only changing 'DCUserPreferencePolicy' value).
Still looking into improving it. After further testing, it would seam that only 'DCUserPreferencePolicy' needs to be change to not have Intel auto contrast adjustment thing kick-in on battery.
Still doing testing, but so far so good (current fix, and also only changing 'DCUserPreferencePolicy' value).
randomscandinavian
New member
Finally updated to the latest firmware and fixes (because after being turned off for some ten days the Surface wouldn't even boot at first without cryptical error messages).
To my surprise the driver and settings and calibration was retained although the Intel control panel is now gone. As far as I can tell I now have the latest official everything (allbeit with an older display driver signature date than the Intel one) and I have all the contrast range without missing dark shades and so on.
Will have to test further and see but at first glance it looks like the original problems was either fixed in the latest update or fixed as a result of installing the Intel drivers, calibrating to an icc profile and then updating to the official drivers.
To my surprise the driver and settings and calibration was retained although the Intel control panel is now gone. As far as I can tell I now have the latest official everything (allbeit with an older display driver signature date than the Intel one) and I have all the contrast range without missing dark shades and so on.
Will have to test further and see but at first glance it looks like the original problems was either fixed in the latest update or fixed as a result of installing the Intel drivers, calibrating to an icc profile and then updating to the official drivers.
randomscandinavian
New member
Well, so today I got brave and installed the latest Microsoft updates. Hadn't had my Surface Pro 2 on for twelve days I see.
That completely undid all of the fixes I had applied and I'm back in banding hell. The screen looks ridiculous to a fairly trained eye. As it is now with its factory settings (albethey calibrated by a Spyder) this thing is completely useless for any kind of graphics work. I cannot use a device that needs a couple of hours service and work every time I turn it on so it will probably remain unused.
(I actually tried giving it away to my girlfriend who needs a new laptop but she didn't want it).
Perhaps after the upcoming Windows update, I will reinstall the working drivers (Intel) and calibrate it anew and then never do any kind of system update ever again except for virus definitions. I have never in my life spent this much money and time on something so completely worthless out of the box as a Surface Pro 2.
That completely undid all of the fixes I had applied and I'm back in banding hell. The screen looks ridiculous to a fairly trained eye. As it is now with its factory settings (albethey calibrated by a Spyder) this thing is completely useless for any kind of graphics work. I cannot use a device that needs a couple of hours service and work every time I turn it on so it will probably remain unused.
(I actually tried giving it away to my girlfriend who needs a new laptop but she didn't want it).
Perhaps after the upcoming Windows update, I will reinstall the working drivers (Intel) and calibrate it anew and then never do any kind of system update ever again except for virus definitions. I have never in my life spent this much money and time on something so completely worthless out of the box as a Surface Pro 2.
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