03-24-2014 09:49 AM
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  1. cgmonkey's Avatar
    Other than the issues with the type keyboard which the firmware fixed I consider the surface pro the best bit of hardware Ive ever bought, it fits my needs perfectly, well it did until I started paying attention to the colour banding.

    I'm a photography, retouch artist and 3d artist so colour is important.

    Colour banding is very noticeable, I can't see it on my Dell laptop which has a cheap screen. and I can't notice the banding with the same image on the 1st gen Ipad.

    I've tried using my Huey pro to calibrate, no better.

    So without connecting this to my main monitor all the time it's going to limit how I can use this device.

    Anyone notice the same issue?
    12-15-2013 04:19 PM
  2. Surface ProMan's Avatar
    give me a reference picture so i can test it with my screen
    12-15-2013 04:34 PM
  3. cgmonkey's Avatar
    http://carldavis.smugmug.com/Other/S...MG_9435-XL.jpg

    Banding in the background with the browns.

    As I said no banding at all on my dell, ipad, galaxy note
    12-15-2013 04:52 PM
  4. Surface ProMan's Avatar
    yes i see it too, i know u said that you dont have this issue on your other displays but maybe its the image itself:
    12-15-2013 05:00 PM
  5. cgmonkey's Avatar
    Thanks for the input but its not the image, or if it is the display is definitely making it worse, a lot worse on mine. I will go back to the raw file and check how that looks.

    btw, noise filter is also a good method or removing banding if its the image.
    12-15-2013 05:09 PM
  6. Surface ProMan's Avatar
    this guys over reddit have also issues with color banding after the recent update which include the latest graphics driver update: SP2: Super lag in Civ 5 since recent firmware update : Surface
    12-15-2013 05:16 PM
  7. cgmonkey's Avatar
    Looks like I will be onto microsoft as soon as possible. The banding is clearly visible in the raw file as well, again can't be seen on any other display I own.
    12-15-2013 05:32 PM
  8. MBytes's Avatar
    Windows 8 has, in the classic Control Panel, something to calibrate the color of the monitor.
    As we know, software color calibration creates banding. Can you check to see if you set all settings to default there, and if you have anything on the Intel integrated graphic control panel about color adjustment, that everything is set to default?

    I can't check as the SP2 is sold out everywhere, and I just can't buy it.
    12-16-2013 09:01 PM
  9. stephen_az's Avatar
    http://carldavis.smugmug.com/Other/S...MG_9435-XL.jpg

    Banding in the background with the browns.

    As I said no banding at all on my dell, ipad, galaxy note
    I can certainly see it but can also see it on every device I own. That includes three 1080P screens and a Lumia 928. I'm sorry but it certainly appears to be embedded in the image itself as the effect remains the same regardless of orientation or scaling. Quite frankly, it looks to me to be an error introduced during post processing in either Photoshop or Lightroom. I have also checked a sample of my Nikon raw files and post-processed jpegs and do not see anything comparable. In fact, I have run about 1000 photos through Lightroom in the past few weeks and have seen nothing like this at all.
    12-17-2013 01:13 AM
  10. cgmonkey's Avatar
    I wont argue that you can see it in the image, strange I can't but,well its not that bad except on the Surface Pro 2, but happy to go with that being a bad example.
    I see banding in the Raw file as well.
    I also see banding on the background image in metro as well, for example if I set the colours to a light grey(or any other colour) for Accent and black for background when using the top left hand theme. Again might not be the best example.
    I will try and get some screen shots comparing to my dell screen, which has a poor viewing angle.
    12-17-2013 01:47 PM
  11. Scott Bird's Avatar
    Im just noticing this too!!!!

    Im also a vfx artist. I could swear this wasn't happening before :/

    This reminds me of an old tablet I had that did not have full 16 million colors but some smaller number which cannot display gradients without banding.

    This is pretty strange. Is this definitely from the recent update? I hope its a known bug. I cant imagine the tablet doesn't have a screen capable of displaying a full range of color.

    I regret this thing more and more every day. It was so close to being a dream machine in a way but it is constantly falling short. I still cant open photoshop without a graphic driver crashing.
    randomscandinavian likes this.
    12-22-2013 03:09 AM
  12. randomscandinavian's Avatar
    There seems to be more banding in the Modern interface than on the desktop for some reason. At least with the same background image on both it seems not only to go darker but also into less colors when switching to the Metro mode. I use the bundled wallpaper with the two red tulips and that has a banded look to it that increases when I switch modes.

    Having said that, in my own photos I can just barely barely maybe make out the tiniest banding in the sky of one single shot. You really have to look hard for it to see it.

    The slow jerky brigntness adjustment between different screens and photos is driving me somewhat nuts however. So the graphics driver could clearly be tweaked. Until the last system update it was possible to do that by downloading a different driver that came with its own control panel. But apparently that isn't possible anymore (since the official driver itself is now the same and the system won't let you install a driver it thinks you already have).
    12-22-2013 04:48 AM
  13. MBytes's Avatar
    The issues are clearly Intel's faults.
    Personally, I wish that the Surface Pro 2 was using a dedicated GPU solution. Even if it's Nvidia or AMD super low end model, it is still miles better than Intel.
    The drivers are better, no software compatibility list, everything just works, well tested (especially Nvidia's), no banding, has power to offer an ultra smooth experience, and best multi-screen support.

    Intel has been crap, and always be crap. It's a true shame that a company like Intel, with all their resources they have, can't only build a half *** attempt at a graphic solution, despite all these years. Like, one would think that the old software compatibility list would be gone, and that every software would just work without a secdon thought. But nope. We are still in 1998, in Intel land.

    Oh well.

    A quick look on the interwebs, and it looks like its an issue with no fix since last gen Intel graphic solution.
    12-22-2013 07:19 AM
  14. username55's Avatar
    Started editing a demo... I spent a long while complaining my files were compressed to someone only to finally hook up a different monitor and see its the pros screen causing the banding.

    Awesome. not exceptable for a device that costs this much. Its like a phone I had 5 years ago that couldn't display full range of 16 million colors.
    12-26-2013 08:11 PM
  15. cgmonkey's Avatar
    MBytes posted a link to a fix in another thread, again a big thanks. sorted me out.

    Severe banding and dark greys display as black - Microsoft Community
    MBytes likes this.
    12-29-2013 11:08 AM
  16. randomscandinavian's Avatar
    MBytes posted a link to a fix in another thread, again a big thanks. sorted me out.

    Severe banding and dark greys display as black - Microsoft Community
    On my Surface the first 13 grey shades also display as jet black. But I am not plagued by banding really, only the slow jerky brightness adjustment that takes maybe 4 secomds every time I switch desktops or navigate from a light to dark photo. (with auto brightness set to off btw).

    But my question is how do you keep these custom installed drivers so that Windows won't auto-revert them? Or more precicely: Update them with it's own original driver which will have a newer build date?

    I still don't really understand any of this. Why are these old drivers better when they are the same drivers that MS implemented in the last update? I mean... they clearly are if they solve the problem, but I'm wondering why.

    And I am also wondering if the simplest thing isn't to wait for the next official update that is supposedly only a week or so away.
    12-29-2013 11:53 AM
  17. MBytes's Avatar
    You can set Windows to notify you only about updated.
    Do a search in Windows for "Windows update settings". It will open the Modern UI, PC Settings panel, where you'll find "Choose how updates get installed", click on it, and now you can specific how the updates are treated. by default, it's auto install.

    It must be noted that, perhaps for the best, it's better if you see a firmware release, to apply the driver updates from Windows, as the firmware would assume these drivers installed. So it might fail. Just things to consider if a new firmware fails to install.
    randomscandinavian likes this.
    12-29-2013 12:22 PM
  18. randomscandinavian's Avatar
    I think I will wait for a week or two and see if the update people are expecting appears and if it fixes things. Eventually I end up learning then tweakng, parching and modding everything I own but it is a nice phase when everything is nice and new and unmessed with like my new Surface is now. :)
    12-29-2013 12:59 PM
  19. muitosabao's Avatar
    I also see the banding on the baby picture on my Lumia 925, so that image is bad for testing. The banding is on the image itself.

    Edit: after looking at the thread provided, i also see terrible banding. Trying ti install the intel drivers to see id it fixes it. I mean, what the hell was was MS thinking with the december update? Did they even test it? What with all the problems it introduced, on wonders...
    Last edited by muitosabao; 12-30-2013 at 04:20 AM.
    12-30-2013 03:58 AM
  20. muitosabao's Avatar
    Installed the intell drivers also myself. Made the blacks disappearing thing much better (i can see almost all the black levels all the way to 1 or 2) but i still see some banding in Gradient (banding) - Lagom LCD test
    But in a weird manner, like when i change to the browser the banding is not there, but slowly the screen seems to adjust (although automatic brightness is off) and banding appears and seems to move and then settles. Not dramatic but it's there. I don't see the smooth image i should see! Anyone else experiences this?
    Also, in windows photo viewer (desktop) doesn't seem to be there, but on the metro picture viewer it is. In photoshop I can see it too.


    This is a 1300$ device, i wouldn't expect to see this!
    12-30-2013 04:49 AM
  21. MBytes's Avatar
    I dont' have a SP2, can someone explain to me what auto-brightness is. If it is like the Nintendo 3DS and WiiU Power Saving mode, then what it does it that it increases the brightness of colors, and decreases the back light. This leads for you to see things correctly, but in exchange you loose contrast, and also you have banding, as the colors are adjusted software wise, and not on the LCD panel itself, which is 100% normal, as color adjustment done via software is using a standard algorithm, it doesn't use a Look Up Table to know it should be using which colors, for all 16.7 million colors.
    12-30-2013 07:54 AM
  22. cgmonkey's Avatar
    That is really strange, the image displays fine when it first loads then animates into a banded version. Very strange indeed.
    12-30-2013 02:10 PM
  23. MBytes's Avatar
    Can you reproduce the problem with Windows Live Essential - Photo Gallery?
    12-31-2013 08:56 AM
  24. randomscandinavian's Avatar
    So what's the status on this now? The January update didn't fix anything!

    To recap: images display fine if I simply look at a photo but when you need to handle gradients, such as in a color picker in a desktop graphics application, the colors look like there are only a few thousand of them. Something is clearly not right. Especially if you are going to use the SP2 for image editing.

    The latest Intel driver I have found for Windows 8.1 and the HD4400 adapter seems to be Win64_15338. But Windows won't let me update them without ininstalling the current driver completely first.

    I haven't done that on a tablet before. Will I be able to see and navigate to the Device Manager afterwards or will the touch screen be disabled upon restart? Has anybody tried any of these Intel drivers after the latest Windows update?
    02-03-2014 04:09 PM
  25. MBytes's Avatar
    Now using my Surface Pro 2, I see the problem, and I have identified the issue.
    The problem is the Intel integrated graphics changes the brightness (and or contrast) of the display at a software level. This is part of it's power saving abilities. As it is software color adjustment, it creates banding. The whole thing is completely retarded, but its Intel integrated graphics, so it doesn't surprise me one bit. This is why I want consumer to push manufacture to use Nvidia or AMD offering. Intel integrated graphics is a free graphic card. That is what you get for free. Manufactures and Intel thinks that all we do is Youtube and Office, which is untrue. And some of them, even enjoy colors. Much like people buying dedicated sound card for a premium sound experience, while not being an audio enthusiast, they just seek better music experience over onboard solutions.
    And Intel integrated graphics has a long list of issues and limitation. This is my first system where I don't have Nvidia or AMD GPU as I had no choice... and to me, it shows like a soar thumb that the GPU is absolute junk. Forget performance per watts efficiency, or performance of the device, I am not even talking about this.


    Anyway, to get the Intel drivers installed... because it's Intel you have to do the following:
    -> Download the zip version of the drivers, and extract them somewhere.
    -> Uninstall the drivers from device manager, and check the box to delete them
    -> In Device manager, tell the graphic card adapter to use the extracted drivers
    -> Restart and you are set.

    Note that you'll lose all power saving features of the Intel integrated graphics, which will drop the battery life of the device.
    To revert, uninstall the drivers from device manager, and check the box to delete them, then do a Windows Update, and you'll find the latest Surface Por firmware appear again. It will install the graphic card drivers again.

    The touch screen display is not related to the graphic card. It's like your mouse, or your keyboard, just another input peripheral device.
    randomscandinavian likes this.
    02-03-2014 04:22 PM
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