07-12-2014 02:40 AM
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  1. Onager1286's Avatar
    Came across an interesting article by Paul Thurrott regarding the Surface team's supposed new direction:

    Microsoft's Surface Has a New Mission | Microsoft Surface content from Windows IT Pro

    Thurrott seems to think in the future there will be just the Surface Mini and Surface Pro 3 - no option for a Surface 3. I pasted my response here. What do you guys think?

    I sort of get what you're saying, but I personally hope they don't abandon a middle of the road option. I'm not sure how the 10.6" Surface competes any more with the full size iPad than a Surface Mini does with the iPad Mini or the Surface Pro 3 does with MS's partners' laptops - they even said the SP3 is the "tablet that can replace your laptop".

    What makes me love my Surface 2 is the unique and useful form factor - something Microsoft's partners haven't duplicated - thus I don't really think they're in direct competition. The only thing I'd change is being able to run full Windows, which could easily be accomplished with an Atom processor. I don't want a mini tablet because I couldn't really get laptop-like work done on it. But I also probably don't want to spend upwards of $1000 on a SP3 just to get full Windows and a larger screen. There are other Windows tablets that are functionally what I need, but none offer the unique combination of build quality and form factor that made me get the Surface 2.

    I think a lineup like this makes sense:

    Surface Mini - Runs Windows RT, starts at $299
    Surface 3 - Runs full Windows 8.1, Atom processor, starts at $449
    Surface Pro 3 - Runs full Windows 8.1, Core processor, starts at $799
    05-25-2014 04:54 PM
  2. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    What makes me love my Surface 2 is the unique and useful form factor - something Microsoft's partners haven't duplicated - thus I don't really think they're in direct competition. The only thing I'd change is being able to run full Windows, which could easily be accomplished with an Atom processor. I don't want a mini tablet because I couldn't really get laptop-like work done on it. But I also probably don't want to spend upwards of $1000 on a SP3 just to get full Windows and a larger screen. There are other Windows tablets that are functionally what I need, but none offer the unique combination of build quality and form factor that made me get the Surface 2.

    I think a lineup like this makes sense:

    Surface Mini - Runs Windows RT, starts at $299
    Surface 3 - Runs full Windows 8.1, Atom processor, starts at $449
    Surface Pro 3 - Runs full Windows 8.1, Core processor, starts at $799
    If Microsoft were to produce a Surface Mini:
    Surface Mini RT - $349
    Surface Mini (x86) - $399 (I'm not saying they'd produce both... if they produce one or the other)
    Surface 3 (Atom based) - $549

    I don't think that a Surface Mini is coming, but if it is, then I could see an ARM-based, active stylus model.
    I don't think that we'll see a Surface 3 (ARM-based).
    05-25-2014 08:58 PM
  3. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    If Microsoft were to produce a Surface Mini:
    Surface Mini RT - $349
    Surface Mini (x86) - $399 (I'm not saying they'd produce both... if they produce one or the other)
    Surface 3 (Atom based) - $549

    I don't think that a Surface Mini is coming, but if it is, then I could see an ARM-based, active stylus model.
    I don't think that we'll see a Surface 3 (ARM-based).
    The Surface Mini is coming. I'm sure it is, as it's been said on the blog many times.
    05-25-2014 09:01 PM
  4. Onager1286's Avatar
    I agree that if we see a Surface 3, it probably won't be ARM-based. As much as I loved the potential that a RT held, devices with Atom processors were generally no more expensive or worse-off in battery life than their RT counterparts. I envision RT being combined with Windows Phone and only being sold on devices around 9" or under.
    05-25-2014 09:20 PM
  5. Zulfigar's Avatar
    If Microsoft were to produce a Surface Mini:
    Surface Mini RT - $349
    Surface Mini (x86) - $399 (I'm not saying they'd produce both... if they produce one or the other)
    Surface 3 (Atom based) - $549

    I don't think that a Surface Mini is coming, but if it is, then I could see an ARM-based, active stylus model.
    I don't think that we'll see a Surface 3 (ARM-based).
    I hope there is a Surface 3, so I can see how that NVIDIA k1 processor runs. 192 NVIDIA CUDA Cores... A wet dream for ARM!
    stnm likes this.
    05-25-2014 09:21 PM
  6. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Well, I think the Surface 3, as it is the tablet, will be the 10.1" (or whatever it is) the S2 is at, and not be 12", as it is a tablet. :)
    05-25-2014 09:38 PM
  7. Bora777's Avatar
    I think there's a lot of potential for Microsoft to make inroads with an Atom-powered Surface 3. With the re-designing of RT and its alignment with WP looming, it would make a lot of sense for any future 10-inch device to be running Windows 8.1.

    From my experience, Windows 8.1 runs great on Bay Trail (considering the price) and a Surface 3 with a 3:2 display and N-trig tech would help to build on the strengths Microsoft has touted about the SP3 while opening up the price points that the SP3 cannot compete in.

    At this point I'm very interested to see how the Nokia devices acquisition will affect future Surface products, now that the Surface team is under Elop.
    05-26-2014 12:33 AM
  8. Zulfigar's Avatar
    See, this is a hard place Microsoft had itself right now. They could a) make the Surface 3 an RT, keep it the same as it has been, but use the upgraded K1 (what I'm hoping for), and then make the Surface Mini the Atom processor, to compete with the Dell Venue Pro 8 and the Lenovo ThinkPad 8. However, you also have choice B) which is making both of them Atom based, which for the 10.1" area, would cut into the Surface Pro 2's sales. Either way, I see the mini ran by an Atom processor, but it's up in the air for the 10.1" area.
    05-26-2014 01:02 AM
  9. Bora777's Avatar
    I think from a marketing standpoint, it would be difficult to imagine a 10-inch device on RT alongside an 8-inch device running 8.1. It would be a major headache for Microsoft to try and explain to consumers why the smaller device has vastly more functionality and more PC-like features than the bigger one. People have a hard enough time understanding the limitations of RT as it is.
    05-26-2014 01:48 AM
  10. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    The Surface Mini is coming. I'm sure it is, as it's been said on the blog many times.
    Right, because blogs are never wrong. Lol. We will see.

    ​I don't know why people are hot about the NVidia K1. NVidia doesn't have a good track record for quality. I wish MS would kick them to the curb and pick a different vendor.
    05-26-2014 02:34 AM
  11. emigrating's Avatar
    I'm fairly certain we'll get a Qualcomm based Surface mini, other than that, no new RT devices.
    05-26-2014 02:48 AM
  12. df608's Avatar
    If Microsoft said, they don't want to compete with OEMs then why make an 8" tablet right. Maybe that's why they change course.

    I think they should make it in the 10.6" form and the pro in the 12. Personally I wouldn't mind something a little bigger, but you have to think the pro 3 screen is 12 plus another inch or so for the outer edge, that may be the sweet spot. I will have to see it on person.
    stnm likes this.
    05-26-2014 08:32 AM
  13. Onager1286's Avatar
    If Microsoft said, they don't want to compete with OEMs then why make an 8" tablet right. Maybe that's why they change course.

    I think they should make it in the 10.6" form and the pro in the 12. Personally I wouldn't mind something a little bigger, but you have to think the pro 3 screen is 12 plus another inch or so for the outer edge, that may be the sweet spot. I will have to see it on person.
    Right, maybe they'll stick with 12 inches but I would hope they make a cheaper version with an Atom processor.
    05-26-2014 02:59 PM
  14. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Right, because blogs are never wrong. Lol. We will see.

    ​I don't know why people are hot about the NVidia K1. NVidia doesn't have a good track record for quality. I wish MS would kick them to the curb and pick a different vendor.
    I meant WPCentral blogs. Usually, the editors don't post articles about stuff unless it is credible. This isn't WMPowerUser. :P


    Sent from my Xbox One using Tapatalk
    rdubmu likes this.
    05-27-2014 12:04 AM
  15. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I meant WPCentral blogs. Usually, the editors don't post articles about stuff unless it is credible. This isn't WMPowerUser. :P


    Sent from my Xbox One using Tapatalk
    LOL fair enough. :D
    05-27-2014 11:24 AM
  16. nmercy's Avatar
    I think there is still a market for a non-pro Surface 3, especially now that they're making the Pro 3 more into a laptop replacement device.

    They should keep the form factor of the Surface 2, possibly with a 10.1 inch screen instead of the 10.6 (though not sure I would like having to buy a new keyboard cover)
    Get rid of Office RT and put in the app version of Office without need for a 365 account, or at the very least allow for editing but feature lock some items, similar to Office Starter edition
    Implement the new kickstand from the SP3
    Go with Qualcomm rather than Nvidia so that hopefully they can get better driver support

    If they decide to keep RT make a break from the desktop, implement a real modern file manager and control panel replacement, and most people won't have to go back to the desktop, especially with touch Office. Once they get rid of the desktop it will eliminate a lot of the confusion and people can begin to break that link in their mind.
    05-27-2014 12:04 PM
  17. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I think there is still a market for a non-pro Surface 3, especially now that they're making the Pro 3 more into a laptop replacement device.

    They should keep the form factor of the Surface 2, possibly with a 10.1 inch screen instead of the 10.6 (though not sure I would like having to buy a new keyboard cover)
    Get rid of Office RT and put in the app version of Office without need for a 365 account, or at the very least allow for editing but feature lock some items, similar to Office Starter edition
    Implement the new kickstand from the SP3
    Go with Qualcomm rather than Nvidia so that hopefully they can get better driver support

    If they decide to keep RT make a break from the desktop, implement a real modern file manager and control panel replacement, and most people won't have to go back to the desktop, especially with touch Office. Once they get rid of the desktop it will eliminate a lot of the confusion and people can begin to break that link in their mind.
    If they do those things for the Surface 3, that will make my decision easier... I'll have ZERO interest in buying one. That's a good thing. I have way too many notebooks, netbooks, and tablets already. :)
    05-27-2014 12:20 PM
  18. mozman68's Avatar
    I think there is still a market for a non-pro Surface 3, especially now that they're making the Pro 3 more into a laptop replacement device.

    They should keep the form factor of the Surface 2, possibly with a 10.1 inch screen instead of the 10.6 (though not sure I would like having to buy a new keyboard cover)
    Get rid of Office RT and put in the app version of Office without need for a 365 account, or at the very least allow for editing but feature lock some items, similar to Office Starter edition
    Implement the new kickstand from the SP3
    Go with Qualcomm rather than Nvidia so that hopefully they can get better driver support

    If they decide to keep RT make a break from the desktop, implement a real modern file manager and control panel replacement, and most people won't have to go back to the desktop, especially with touch Office. Once they get rid of the desktop it will eliminate a lot of the confusion and people can begin to break that link in their mind.
    If they were going to do all of that, I would think they would simply do that with a new "mini" version in the 7-10" size range. Keep the surface keyboard and kickstand and limit to the app only version like you said. I'm on the fence on whether or not they should keep USB, video out, etc.
    05-27-2014 12:21 PM
  19. nmercy's Avatar
    If they do those things for the Surface 3, that will make my decision easier... I'll have ZERO interest in buying one. That's a good thing. I have way too many notebooks, netbooks, and tablets already. :)
    I prefer the 10.6" screen, but a lot of people seem to have problems with the size at that aspect ratio. 10.1" would probably be more manageable for them. The 10.6" screen is actually perfect for me, and I'm a little sad to see it getting eliminated from the Pro line. If I need a bigger screen that's what the dock is for.

    As for Office, it's more about the severing people from thinking it should do Windows 7 things and focusing more on what it can do as a Windows 8 tablet.

    Of course these changes would also eliminate me as a Surface customer, but since I should be a Surface Pro customer, it's also probably a good thing. Hopefully they haven't eliminated the 10.6" form factor completely because I think that really is the perfect size for me, but maybe Microsoft knows best and 12" really is the perfect size...
    05-27-2014 02:16 PM
  20. RajeevT's Avatar
    Hopefully they haven't eliminated the 10.6" form factor completely because I think that really is the perfect size for me, but maybe Microsoft knows best and 12" really is the perfect size...
    I'm with you and hope they haven't abandoned the 10.6" form factor either.
    05-27-2014 05:01 PM
  21. Onager1286's Avatar
    I'm with you and hope they haven't abandoned the 10.6" form factor either.
    When you say the 10.6" form factor, are you simply referring to the size, or the 16:9 aspect ratio as well? I'd prefer the 3:2 form factor.
    05-27-2014 07:55 PM
  22. etphoto's Avatar
    I believe RT and WPhone OS will become one. That is when you'll see the S3.

    Sent from my Surface 2 using Tapatalk
    05-27-2014 08:18 PM
  23. hopmedic's Avatar
    The Surface Mini is coming. I'm sure it is, as it's been said on the blog many times.
    If you listen to Windows Weekly, Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley said last week that it was canceled from last week's presentation because it wasn't ready for prime time. It wasn't differentiated enough from what's already out there. They suggested that it might be the touch-first version of office that MS is waiting for to launch the mini. But it's coming. Definitely.
    05-28-2014 03:40 PM
  24. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    If you listen to Windows Weekly, Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley said last week that it was canceled from last week's presentation because it wasn't ready for prime time. It wasn't differentiated enough from what's already out there. They suggested that it might be the touch-first version of office that MS is waiting for to launch the mini. But it's coming. Definitely.
    Yeah, I know that. But yes, it is coming.


    Sent from my PlayStation 4 using Tapatalk
    05-28-2014 04:07 PM
  25. mozman68's Avatar
    so, to be clear, it's coming?
    df608 likes this.
    05-28-2014 04:14 PM
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