06-01-2014 12:51 PM
52 123
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  1. negative1ne's Avatar
    seriously.

    let it go.

    if it's too expensive. get another keyboard.

    there are many usb, and wireless ones out there.

    even ones from microsoft that are cheaper
    (less than $50 for me) and the cover of it
    doubles as a flexible stand.

    i have this for my surface pro:
    =====================================
    wedge keyboard


    I CAN'T STAND THE TOUCH OR TYPE KEYBOARDS

    i need real keys to work with.

    yes, it doesn't have a trackpad. so use your fingers or the pen.

    if you need a keyboard, get an alternate one.

    also, you can use a regular USB one, and if you have more
    than one USB device, use a small hub.

    mine has a logitech trackball, and WD 500G drive all at the
    same time.

    i don't use it much on my lap. but if i had to, i could.

    later
    -1
    Editguy1900 likes this.
    05-29-2014 06:42 PM
  2. Fred Mertz's Avatar
    Since I don't have either of the first two versions of the Surface Pro, can anyone give me insight into whether or not the on screen keyboard is any good, be it the full keyboard or the split keyboard that is.
    05-29-2014 06:50 PM
  3. hotphil's Avatar
    If it's any good depends on your preference. For me, I don't like it. I couldn't use the touch cover either. So I did what negative1ne has done - wedge keyboard and mouse. Gives me something that I can reasonably type on when working at client sites but still just pick up the tablet and wander off into meetings and take notes/show the screen around etc.
    The type covers are waaayyy overpriced.
    05-29-2014 08:35 PM
  4. SeeVuPlay's Avatar
    I would love to get another typecover, but im hoping they come out with a power type cover so i can get 12-13 hours of battery life
    05-29-2014 09:49 PM
  5. california86's Avatar
    Thanks for this thread. I haven't even considered not getting a cover. I'm looking at other options and they look pretty cool.

    I can think of a couple of reasons why I might not want to do the external keyboard route:
    1) Another item to carry (going against the whole mobility thing).
    2) and I'd want a cover for my SP3.

    I'll have to weigh my options...
    05-29-2014 10:27 PM
  6. mozman68's Avatar
    For those of you complaining, go buy an iPad and then buy this keyboard for only $99....oh, btw, no backlight, touchpad or proper angle placement....

    Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard Cover for iPad Air - Apple Store (U.S.)
    05-29-2014 11:10 PM
  7. FinancialP's Avatar
    I can see how some may be a little upset considering the SP3 is basically a notebook computer with a detachable keyboard.

    That's my best guess
    05-29-2014 11:28 PM
  8. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    seriously.

    let it go.
    Grow up... seriously.

    If you don't understand why some people are irritated that a keyboard cover is a separate expense, then you haven't been paying attention.

    But I'll spell it out for you... EVERY Surface ad shows the Surface with a keyboard. Little screen time is given showing it without it. It is reasonable for people to assume that the keyboard is included. To not include it gives some people the impression that Microsoft is as conniving as those "as seen on TV" companies. This is not rocket science.
    DJCBS likes this.
    05-30-2014 12:27 AM
  9. ytrewq's Avatar
    Kind of like how every PS4 commercial shows people playing games on the PS4, so we all expect the games to be included, but it turns out you have to buy them separately, so everyone whines and complains about how Sony is an underhanded "as seen on TV" company.

    Or how every cereal commercial shows the cereal with milk, but it turns out you have to buy the milk separately. Darn, those sneaky cereal manufacturers.

    Or how every Budweiser commercial has a hot looking woman in it, but it turns out the beer doesn't come with the hot looking woman, and you have to get those separately. Deceptive advertising at its best. Sure pisses me off.

    Or maybe, just maybe, that's not really it. Maybe, just maybe, people like to complain about how much things cost, and when something is broken out as a separate expense, it's that much easier to single out that expense for whining and complaining purposes.

    If the biggest complaint you get as a manufacturer is that people wish they got the accessories for free, then you've got a pretty good product.
    05-30-2014 12:47 AM
  10. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Lol this comment has made my night.
    TripsG likes this.
    05-30-2014 01:10 AM
  11. SeeVuPlay's Avatar
    Kind of like how every PS4 commercial shows people playing games on the PS4, so we all expect the games to be included, but it turns out you have to buy them separately, so everyone whines and complains about how Sony is an underhanded "as seen on TV" company.

    Or how every cereal commercial shows the cereal with milk, but it turns out you have to buy the milk separately. Darn, those sneaky cereal manufacturers.

    Or how every Budweiser commercial has a hot looking woman in it, but it turns out the beer doesn't come with the hot looking woman, and you have to get those separately. Deceptive advertising at its best. Sure pisses me off.

    Or maybe, just maybe, that's not really it. Maybe, just maybe, people like to complain about how much things cost, and when something is broken out as a separate expense, it's that much easier to single out that expense for whining and complaining purposes.

    If the biggest complaint you get as a manufacturer is that people wish they got the accessories for free, then you've got a pretty good product.
    I agree....Everyone, including me, would love to have things for free. But it isnt. And im just still trying to figure out why people insist they deserve it without paying for it....oh right....the commercial. The commercial nor presentation says nothing of a free kb.

    Someone mentioned it cost 18 dollars to make and therefore is overpriced. That may or may not be accurate, but i have yet to see any other manufacturer do this with their tablets....not even the ipad (it has to connect bluetooth right?)
    TripsG likes this.
    05-30-2014 07:23 AM
  12. TripsG's Avatar
    It's the "games should only cost $0.99!" mentality. It's mostly a recent phenomenon but people are being trained to compare what they believe are relative costs for similar items, but this fails to hold true for all things.

    We can look at a Chevy Cruze and compare it to a Porsche and nearly everyone can somehow understand the difference in cost. While some will claim you're paying a tax for the name alone, even they understand that the Porsche is built to a higher quality standard with more bells and whistles and most understand that they build fewer Porsche's than they do Cruze's. But show them a keyboard and they automatically remember that you can get a keyboard for next to nothing nowadays and complain that it should be free because it came with their old Dell desktop system 5 years ago.

    But look at the technology that goes into the type cover and compare that to a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard and frankly, the car example above makes much more sense, though they don't want to see it that way.

    But to use the commercial as the reason people are complaining? Yeah, someone is not thinking that through.

    That, and people really just like to complain.
    05-30-2014 07:52 AM
  13. smoheath's Avatar
    It's the "games should only cost $0.99!" mentality. It's mostly a recent phenomenon but people are being trained to compare what they believe are relative costs for similar items, but this fails to hold true for all things.

    We can look at a Chevy Cruze and compare it to a Porsche and nearly everyone can somehow understand the difference in cost. While some will claim you're paying a tax for the name alone, even they understand that the Porsche is built to a higher quality standard with more bells and whistles and most understand that they build fewer Porsche's than they do Cruze's. But show them a keyboard and they automatically remember that you can get a keyboard for next to nothing nowadays and complain that it should be free because it came with their old Dell desktop system 5 years ago.

    But look at the technology that goes into the type cover and compare that to a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard and frankly, the car example above makes much more sense, though they don't want to see it that way.

    But to use the commercial as the reason people are complaining? Yeah, someone is not thinking that through.

    That, and people really just like to complain.

    That is a great way of putting it. In addition to the Porsche analogy, I think a lot of people, especially tech writers, assume Microsoft is trying to sell as many surface devices as possible and become the next Apple. But the truth is, they are not. This is why the surface pro is priced so high. It sends a message to OEMs that they aren't necessarily competing with them. Microsoft is building their own hardware to bring about Windows 8 adoption and showcase the brand. I also think the surface exists in case OEMs stop building Windows devices.
    TripsG likes this.
    05-30-2014 11:13 AM
  14. nmercy's Avatar
    For the Surface, while not necessary since it's billed as a consumption device tablet that has the potential to do some real work if needed, the Surface Pro line has been billed as a replacement for a laptop and a tablet. If you're going to bill it as a replacement for something, it actually has to be able to replace it. Unfortunately, without the keyboard, the Surface Pro is not a laptop replacement.

    I know from using my Surface 2 that the on screen keyboard is perfectly acceptable for "modern" apps as the keyboard plays nicely with them, however it is horrible for desktop application use as the desktop does not play nicely with it, the keyboard takes up half the screen, and most of the time you can't even see what you're typing. Most of the time, unless an update is absolutely needed that exact moment, when using an Office document, I will put off making my change until I'm in a position where I can use the regular keyboard.

    It's not like when they talk about the docking station, they always say, "and with the docking station" when they mention the Surface Pro being a desktop replacement but they never mention "and with the type keyboard" when they talk about it being a laptop replacement it's always just that the Surface Pro is a laptop replacement.
    05-30-2014 12:07 PM
  15. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Kind of like how every PS4 commercial shows people playing games on the PS4, so we all expect the games to be included, but it turns out you have to buy them separately, so everyone whines and complains about how Sony is an underhanded "as seen on TV" company.
    If you think that is the equivalent then I don't think I have the capability of explaining the situation in way that you would be able to understand.
    05-30-2014 12:07 PM
  16. mikeakanice's Avatar
    Kind of like how every PS4 commercial shows people playing games on the PS4, so we all expect the games to be included, but it turns out you have to buy them separately, so everyone whines and complains about how Sony is an underhanded "as seen on TV" company.

    Or how every cereal commercial shows the cereal with milk, but it turns out you have to buy the milk separately. Darn, those sneaky cereal manufacturers.

    Or how every Budweiser commercial has a hot looking woman in it, but it turns out the beer doesn't come with the hot looking woman, and you have to get those separately. Deceptive advertising at its best. Sure pisses me off.

    Or maybe, just maybe, that's not really it. Maybe, just maybe, people like to complain about how much things cost, and when something is broken out as a separate expense, it's that much easier to single out that expense for whining and complaining purposes.

    If the biggest complaint you get as a manufacturer is that people wish they got the accessories for free, then you've got a pretty good product.
    That's a terrible comparison. Microsoft is desperately trying to compare itself as a laptop that can be used as a tablet. What other laptops make you pay extra for the keyboard? Microsoft misleadingly shows every Surface pro tablet with the keyboard. Which makes potential buyers think the keyboard is included.

    Game consoles have almost always sold their systems separately from their games. That's well known by now unless it's some sort of bundle. There is a clear distinction. Go to the bestbuy or for that matter any website and you'll see that it's just a console and nothing else unless it's a bundle package. Now go to the Microsoft store you'll see on their front page the surface pro 3 with the keyboard. It's very misleading.

    And if you carefully watch ps4 commercials or xb1 commericals you'll likely see at the bottom that games are sold separately. You're really grasping at straws here to defend microsofts thinking.

    I also find it ridiculous that Microsoft wants to charge you five dollars for the little plastic sticker holder for your pen.
    Shawn Magm likes this.
    05-30-2014 12:28 PM
  17. falconeight's Avatar
    Kind of like how every PS4 commercial shows people playing games on the PS4, so we all expect the games to be included, but it turns out you have to buy them separately, so everyone whines and complains about how Sony is an underhanded "as seen on TV" company.

    Or how every cereal commercial shows the cereal with milk, but it turns out you have to buy the milk separately. Darn, those sneaky cereal manufacturers.

    Or how every Budweiser commercial has a hot looking woman in it, but it turns out the beer doesn't come with the hot looking woman, and you have to get those separately. Deceptive advertising at its best. Sure pisses me off.

    Or maybe, just maybe, that's not really it. Maybe, just maybe, people like to complain about how much things cost, and when something is broken out as a separate expense, it's that much easier to single out that expense for whining and complaining purposes.

    If the biggest complaint you get as a manufacturer is that people wish they got the accessories for free, then you've got a pretty good product.
    Its not an accessory its like tires on a car. Its going to be the reason people don't buy this thing. Its more like beer without the can. They just pour it in your hands at the store. Or maybe Microsoft should have advertised it as an extremely expensive tablet that can be turned into a top heavy macbook for an extra $130.
    05-30-2014 12:53 PM
  18. oditius's Avatar
    Hmm my Dell venue pro II didn't come with a keyboard, I had to but it separately. But the one I did buy protects the screen and has its own battery that the tab shares. So I get a long time one a charge. Plus it has the i5 Intel and 128GB of storage.
    05-30-2014 01:08 PM
  19. nmercy's Avatar
    Going along the lines of a videogame console, they are very careful, when they show the product at the end, to show only what you get in the box... usually this is just the console and 1 controller. If they are running a special, like get x game with it, they show the console, 1 controller, and game x.

    As far as the Dell Venue Pro 8 vs. Surface Pro 3, just compare their websites...

    On the Dell website (Dell Venue 8 Pro Windows 8.1 HD Tablet Details | Dell) the top pictures show only the Venue Pro 8. Next they show you the difference configurations (venue alone 32 GB, venue red alone 64 GB, and combo of 32 GB + Wireless Keyboard + Case). The only times you see it with a keyboard are when they show configurations, talk about expand-ability, and talk about accessories.

    On the Surface website (Microsoft Surface Tablets - The Windows Tablet That Does More) they start with a comparison of Surface Pro 3 (unit, keyboard, and pen) with the tagline "The Tablet That Can Replace Your Laptop" and Surface 2 (unit only) with the tagline "The Tablet That Comes With Office". Following the Surface Pro 3 link to the next page you're greeted with a Surface Pro 3 (unit, keyboard, and pen) with no mention of the keyboard not coming with it but a starting at $799. After the specification section you get the next picture which shows a Surface Pro 3 (unit, keyboard, and pen) and a Surface Pro 3 (unit only) in the background and now they mention "optional" type cover. The only pictures after that show it without the keyboard are when they are talking about the kickstand and the pen specifically. Out of the 6 sections that have visuals only 2 feature it without keyboard and 1 shows it in the background.

    Compare that to the Surface 2 where the top image shows the Surface 2 (unit only) and 3 out of the 5 sections show it without the keyboard.

    The Surface Pro line is marketed as a laptop replacement and without a keyboard it can't be. The Surface 2 and Dell Venue are marketed as tablets that, with extra accessories, can perform some productivity tasks.

    I also don't buy the not bundling because stores won't carry/people want choice arguments. When retail stores sell a package you get that package (at a cheaper price than buying all the parts separately) and sometimes they even let you switch out things like monitor or printer and still give you a discount. Also, in June after the RT came out Best Buy (and I believe the Microsoft Store) were selling the RT with a free touch or type keyboard as this was when my sister got her RT with free type keyboard. It wasn't a hassle, you could get whatever color/style you wanted, they just pulled the keyboard attached to the bundle out and put the color/style you wanted in. So they could do it that way, or even just include basic black in the box, and the people who really care about color will buy an additional cover of the color they want... some will even buy multiple colors.
    05-30-2014 02:02 PM
  20. chezm's Avatar
    Since I don't have either of the first two versions of the Surface Pro, can anyone give me insight into whether or not the on screen keyboard is any good, be it the full keyboard or the split keyboard that is.
    I have a SP2 and Type Cover 2 and still use the screen keyboard frequently, especially if im working on my lap or tight surface area. I find its very responsive and easy to use.
    05-30-2014 02:03 PM
  21. ytrewq's Avatar
    Let me get this straight: Are all of you saying that you thought the keyboard came with the device? No, clearly you knew better. I certainly knew better when I bought mine. And so does everythone else. Stop pretending that the reason you are all so upset is that you feel bad for all the people who got duped. No one got duped. We all know it doesn't come with the keyboard. Anyone who has read a single review knows that. And all of you knew that.

    Quit your whining. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it.
    05-30-2014 02:10 PM
  22. ytrewq's Avatar
    If you think that is the equivalent then I don't think I have the capability of explaining the situation in way that you would be able to understand.
    You can't explain it because it is totally illogical.

    My analogy is a perfect one: No one has been duped into thinking the Surface Pro 3 comes with a keyboard. In fact, everyone who is whining and complaining is whining and complaining precisely because they know it doesn't come with a keyboard.

    Your elusive "explanation" is that you think that, unlike you, everyone else is too stupid to see that it doesn't come with the keyboard, and you are angry at Microsoft for duping them, and that is why everyone is upset. You are wrong. Everyone understands that it doesn't come with the keyboard. People aren't whining because folks are being duped; people are whining simply because they would rather pay less.

    And if you don't get that, I don't think I can explain it to you in words you are capable of understanding.
    TripsG and Joe Acerbic like this.
    05-30-2014 02:20 PM
  23. mikeakanice's Avatar
    Let me get this straight: Are all of you saying that you thought the keyboard came with the device? No, clearly you knew better. I certainly knew better when I bought mine. And so does everythone else. Stop pretending that the reason you are all so upset is that you feel bad for all the people who got duped. No one got duped. We all know it doesn't come with the keyboard. Anyone who has read a single review knows that. And all of you knew that.

    Quit your whining. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it.
    I don't see how you don't get it. This isn't just about people on this forum who know that it doesn't come with a keyboard. It's about the public in general who most likely wouldn't know by microsofts advertising campaign that the tablet that will replace your laptop and tablet (Microsofts on words), won't come with a keyboard. How can you replace a laptop without a keyboard? You can't. You're either not understanding the argument or are just trying to be argumentative. But between your comparisons of the gaming consoles and this statement you aren't coming off very well in this argument.
    05-30-2014 02:20 PM
  24. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Let me get this straight: Are all of you saying that you thought the keyboard came with the device? No, clearly you knew better. I certainly knew better when I bought mine. And so does everythone else. Stop pretending that the reason you are all so upset is that you feel bad for all the people who got duped. No one got duped. We all know it doesn't come with the keyboard. Anyone who has read a single review knows that. And all of you knew that.

    Quit your whining. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it.
    I suggest reading this thread again... this time without the influence of your emotional attachment to Microsoft. No one is "upset". No one claims that anyone got "duped".
    05-30-2014 02:22 PM
  25. ytrewq's Avatar
    The Microsoft Store webpage you reference clearly identifies the keyboard as an accessory available for purchase separately. Here is the page your reference: New Surface Pro 3 Tablet - The Tablet That Can Replace Your Laptop

    Nowhere does the page say it comes with a keyboard. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and you will see that it clearly says, "Accessories for your Surface Pro 3," and the first one is "Surface Pro Type Cover," with a button to pre-order the cover.

    I have seen dozens of posts from people saying they had pre-ordered the SP3 AND a type cover. All of those people clearly knew the cover wasn't included. I have yet to see anyone say that they had pre-ordered the SP3 but didn't order the type cover because they thought it was included. You guys are trying to hard to pretend there is this huge group of duped consumers out there, when in fact there are none. If they exist, you would think they would speak up for themselves with a loud enough voice that all of you wouldn't need to complain for them.
    05-30-2014 02:27 PM
52 123

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