Worse Performance than SP2

[boo516]

Hi guys, I don't know if any of you are gamers or such but I wanted to ask if anyone has gotten worse performance on SP3 than SP2. I have one of each both i5-4300U with 8GB ram. However my SP2 is able to run DOTA at >30fps while my SP3 can only manage ~25 fps. Same settings on both. Anyone else experience this? To me it makes no sense if the hardware is exactly the same. I'm even doing on the same resolution.:angry:

 

[Zulfigar]

The SP3 has a higher resolution screen, so it takes more of the CPU to handle it. A frame rate drop with the same CPU would actually make sense, hopefully some optimization increases it, but I doubt it'll be up to 30 fps, sadly.

 

[vertigoOne]

Same processor in a thinner and lighter device = worse performance...logic wins.

 

[colinkiama]

The connected stand by removes the high performance options that were in the battery settings. I saw someone in the forums post that there was a registry key that could be changed to 0 which removed connected standby . After doing this the power options returned and they could put their sp3 on high performance.

 

[boo516]

Well I figured out the issue is that the system throttles the cpu down to .8GHz as soon as the CPU reaches 80 degrees celsius. Thus any attempt to run anything that is straining will cause the system to throttle the cpu down. So no games, no heavy compilers, and anything intensive

 

[onlysublime]

how is the performance if you turn down the resolution to match the SP2? it should be the same performance at 1080p.

 

[boo516]

It's still the same. Upon reading other forums, I've found is that Microsoft set the throttling temprature lower than on the SP2 so that the CPU on the SP2 can maintain a higher performance before being throttled.

 

[wynand32]

how is the performance if you turn down the resolution to match the SP2? it should be the same performance at 1080p.

The OP stated that the tests were run at the same resolution. So that doesn't seem to be the issue...

I would agree that Microsoft had to do something to compensate for the SP3's design. Given how much attention they paid to engineering the fan assembly, it's obvious that thermal performance was a concern. And really, I don't blame them: personally, I'm happy to accept somewhat lower performance in exchange for the SP3's form factor. And, further, I think it's a mistake to buy the SP3 with the intent of using it as a gaming system (or, e.g., a video editing workstation). The form factor--larger screen with a better ratio, thin, light, decent battery life--makes the SP3 a superior productivity machine, which is precisely where Microsoft is targeting it.

The thing is, I don't see Microsoft marketing the SP3 as a gaming or processor-intensive-application machine, and so there's nothing deceptive going on. I think some folks want the SP3 to be something it's not, and indeed I'm not aware of a single Win 8.1 hybrid that's significantly better in these areas. If someone wants a good portable gaming machine, then there are far better options out there.

I don't mean to be dismissive of the OP's concerns. But in this case, I do think it's valuable to mention the old adage "the right tool for the job."

 

[boo516]

The OP stated that the tests were run at the same resolution. So that doesn't seem to be the issue...

I would agree that Microsoft had to do something to compensate for the SP3's design. Given how much attention they paid to engineering the fan assembly, it's obvious that thermal performance was a concern. And really, I don't blame them: personally, I'm happy to accept somewhat lower performance in exchange for the SP3's form factor. And, further, I think it's a mistake to buy the SP3 with the intent of using it as a gaming system (or, e.g., a video editing workstation). The form factor--larger screen with a better ratio, thin, light, decent battery life--makes the SP3 a superior productivity machine, which is precisely where Microsoft is targeting it.

The thing is, I don't see Microsoft marketing the SP3 as a gaming or processor-intensive-application machine, and so there's nothing deceptive going on. I think some folks want the SP3 to be something it's not, and indeed I'm not aware of a single Win 8.1 hybrid that's significantly better in these areas. If someone wants a good portable gaming machine, then there are far better options out there.

I don't mean to be dismissive of the OP's concerns. But in this case, I do think it's valuable to mention the old adage "the right tool for the job."

I would say you are right, but they have an entire page marketing the device for gaming.... and some of these games are not lightweight.

Surface for gaming -Microsoft Surface

 

[Plechac123]

I simply do not understand why Microsoft is putting i7 or i5 to this product, if they cannot guarantee you that you will get what you payed for.

What I mean is that even i5 cannot display its full power ( absence of TB in longer sessions , throttling when using igpu simultaneously ). Why the heck would I pay for i7, when it is only better chip on paper.

This thin device simply cannot use this much power to its full potential.

I am thinking about i3 model, because it seems like a chip from which I will get 100% performance no matter what I throw at it. I simply do not wanna buy tech that is good on paper, but fails down under its lower tier brothers just because the device cannot handle the heat. Sure, maybe I can get those 2.5 ghz for few minutes, but then I am dealing with heavy throttling.

I think only lightweight games should be played on it.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk

 

[wynand32]

I would say you are right, but they have an entire page marketing the device for gaming.... and some of these games are not lightweight.

Surface for gaming -Microsoft Surface

Okay, yes, I hadn't seen this. That kind of destroys my "Microsoft hasn't marketed it for gaming" argument, doesn't it?

So, I'll amend it thusly: I think it's a mistake for Microsoft to market the SP3 for gaming, and really it's a mistake for any vendor to market a machine using Intel integrated GPUs as a gaming machine. If anyone buys an SP3 because of the linked page, then yes, that's a failure on Microsoft's part.

 

[boo516]

I don't know if it's a mistake since they want to aim it towards as broad of a customer base as possible. However I did read somewhere that the i5 was rated for use up to 90 degrees so I don't know why they kept the limit so low.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I don't know if it's a mistake since they want to aim it towards as broad of a customer base as possible. However I did read somewhere that the i5 was rated for use up to 90 degrees so I don't know why they kept the limit so low.

So because they want to aim for the broadest customer base possible that makes it acceptable? What about honesty? What about properly setting customers' expectations so that they make an informed decision and will be satisfied?

But then again, I'm of the opinion that it is better to have fewer customers that are greatly satisfied, than to have more customers some of which regret their purchase.

 

[boo516]

So because they want to aim for the broadest customer base possible that makes it acceptable? What about honesty? What about properly setting customers' expectations so that they make an informed decision and will be satisfied?

But then again, I'm of the opinion that it is better to have fewer customers that are greatly satisfied, than to have more customers some of which regret their purchase.

Not saying it's acceptable, or else I wouldn't have complained. But surface isn't exactly flying off the shelves so they're gonna have to swing for the fences with some half truths. Do I feel lied to? Sure, I felt like I bought a Ferrari and Ferrari is telling me I can only go 40mph or the car will break down.

 

[onlysublime]

But the thing is if the SP3 is supposed to be a laptop replacement, it should offer full performance. I use my SP2 occasionally for Adobe Premiere. I'd be disappointed if my rendering times were extended due to throttling. A lot of Adobe software uses GPU acceleration including Photoshop so it's not just gaming. I don't really use my SP2 for hardcore gaming (it is Intel graphics after all) but I do expect it to run fast (and so far it has been a speed demon, only beaten by my desktop).

 

[Plechac123]

Sp is laptom replacement for day to day workers ( office, emails, presentations ). Any taxing things will blow it heads off. Be realistiic. In such a small factor you can't expect big performance.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk

 

[boo516]

Sp is laptom replacement for day to day workers ( office, emails, presentations ). Any taxing things will blow it heads off. Be realistiic. In such a small factor you can't expect big performance.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk

They don't advertise it as so.
"For gaming
Take your PC gaming experience on the road
Intensely productive, the Surface Pro 3 is also capable of running many of the most popular PC games, including League of Legends, Civilization V, and The Elder Scrolls Online."

 

[wynand32]

I don't know if it's a mistake since they want to aim it towards as broad of a customer base as possible. However I did read somewhere that the i5 was rated for use up to 90 degrees so I don't know why they kept the limit so low.

It's actually rated for 100 deg C. max temp. I've seen mine get as high as the low 80's, and I'm not sure if it throttles at that point or not. But note that I only do casual gaming on my SP3 (modern apps), and do my real gaming on my desktop.

Given the (Anandtech?) i3 benchmarks, and the parity between the i3 and i5 in graphics performance, I do believe that the bottleneck is the GPU. There's enough of a general performance difference between the i3 and i5 to tell me that it's not the CPU that's being throttled, but the GPU. This is likely on purpose.

And a quick question: the OP stated that the SP3 hit around 25 FPS in DOTA while the SP2 hit around 30 FPS. Is this really so significant a difference that Microsoft should be accused of "lying"? And is DOTA equivalent to the kinds of games Microsoft showed on that SP3 gaming page? Accusing a company of deceptive marketing is a pretty heady thing, and I'm just wondering if Microsoft is guilty of that here, or just the typical optimism...

 

[boo516]

It's actually rated for 100 deg C. max temp. I've seen mine get as high as the low 80's, and I'm not sure if it throttles at that point or not. But note that I only do casual gaming on my SP3 (modern apps), and do my real gaming on my desktop.

Given the (Anandtech?) i3 benchmarks, and the parity between the i3 and i5 in graphics performance, I do believe that the bottleneck is the GPU. There's enough of a general performance difference between the i3 and i5 to tell me that it's not the CPU that's being throttled, but the GPU. This is likely on purpose.

And a quick question: the OP stated that the SP3 hit around 25 FPS in DOTA while the SP2 hit around 30 FPS. Is this really so significant a difference that Microsoft should be accused of "lying"? And is DOTA equivalent to the kinds of games Microsoft showed on that SP3 gaming page? Accusing a company of deceptive marketing is a pretty heady thing, and I'm just wondering if Microsoft is guilty of that here, or just the typical optimism...

From using Intel Extreme tuning I can see that it is the CPU getting throttled. As for the other part. I was wrong. I ran Dota at a lower resolution with a different aspect ratio to maintain 25 fps I believe I ran it at 1320x768. For same settings, I meant things like med texture quality, low shadows, etc. On the 1920x1080 the SP2 gets around 30fps and the SP3 gets around 10. That was my bad. Also yes, Dota is a equivalent to LOL (advertised on their page), in fact LOL was a game desiged because DOTA didn't exist as a standalone game, I believe it was still a Warcraft 3 mod at that time.

 

[SeeVuPlay]

Its great laptop replacement people...its not a unicorn.